Would you label this a spinning back kick or side kick or hybrid?

[jobo]

Karate terminology for what constitutes a back kick may not apply in the context of Taekwondo.

well they are pretty similar,, i dont think thats a back kick in either, i have done a little tkd, back in the day, but if one of our tkd exsperts contradicts me, ok

but thats not really the issue.

one, why is your side kick deficient,, such that a hybrid or at least badly excuted back kick is superior

and b, if the kick works for you, it doesnt matter what it is, unless somethibg else would be better

 

[Acronym]

well they are pretty similar,, i dont think thats a back kick in either, i have done a little tkd, back in the day, but if one of our tkd exsperts contradicts me, ok

but thats not really the issue.

one, why is your side kick deficient,, such that a hybrid or at least badly excuted back kick is superior

and b, if the kick works for you, it doesnt matter what it is, unless somethibg else would be better

Well there is a Karateka who views it as a back kick so your opinion is not universal in Karate. It remains to be seen what the TKD folks think.

 

[jobo]

Well there is a Karateka who views it as a back kick so your opinion is not universal in Karate. It remains to be seen what the TKD folks think.

my opinion is never universal, its a reoccuring theme, thats largely why its my opinion,

if its a back kick, its a poor one, back kicks should floor opponent, with their power, so something needs work.

i mean really, get a heavy bag and exsperiment, with the best delivery of a back kick, im pretty sure its not that

 

[Acronym]

my opinion is never universal, its a reoccuring theme, thats largely why its my opinion,

if its a back kick, its a poor one, back kicks should floor opponent, with their power, so somethink needs work.

i mean really, get a heavy bag and exsperiment, with the best delivery of a back kick, im preety sure its not that

That's a silly statement. There are snapping versions of kicks that are not meant to emphasize power. If I wanted to emphasize power I would hit an actual target so that my leg has some resistance.

 

[Jaeimseu]

As I recall,.my intention was to do a spinning side kick but my body did not feel the need to turn over fully..Then I learned that spinning side kicks t least in some Systems is when you have turned over the torso exactly into the position you fire off regular side kicks, and I clearly haven't done that. I used to think the that the foot formation was the defining feature but that was not the case

I don’t think there is a universal definition. I’ve seen lots of schools that do spinning side kicks but call it spinning back kick. In my school, they are two distinct techniques.


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[Acronym]

I don’t think there is a universal definition. I’ve seen lots of schools that do spinning side kicks but call it spinning back kick. In my school, they are two distinct techniques.


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So there is division even within the same style? I noted that you used the word "schools"

 

[dvcochran]

In this image I feel there are a few things worth mentioning.

Breaking down the kick anatomically, the impact of a side kick should always be delivered with the heel. The kick in the image is leading with the ball of the foot and toes, creating a cushion that dampens the impact. This is usually an independent problem that has to be worked out through correct practice and repetition.

See what the right arm is doing? That indicates that you are 'corkscrewing' or not following through with your upper body. In simplest terms, a lot of the energy of the kick was either never created or cancelled out because the upper body was turning or pushing Away from the direction of the kick.

The left hand/arm is in a terrible defensive position leaving the head wide open to a counter.

Remember, this is still a linear kick. That means the twist or rotation is in the vertical axis. The kicking leg (horizontal axis) is moving linear. It looks like there is a lot of arc in the kicking leg.

Very close but your hips are still a little open. Especially relative to where your shoulders are which may be a little over rotated. This could simply be because you are doing an air kick.
The exception here would be if you were intending to follow through with a kick moving forward. However, the upper body does not indicate this.

 

[Acronym]

In this image I feel there are a few things worth mentioning.

Breaking down the kick anatomically, the impact of a side kick should always be delivered with the heel. The kick in the image is leading with the ball of the foot and toes, creating a cushion that dampens the impact. This is usually an independent problem that has to be worked out through correct practice and repetition.

See what the right arm is doing? That indicates that you are 'corkscrewing' or not following through with your upper body. In simplest terms, a lot of the energy of the kick was either never created or cancelled out because the upper body was turning or pushing Away from the direction of the kick.

The left hand/arm is in a terrible defensive position leaving the head wide open to a counter.

Remember, this is still a linear kick. That means the twist or rotation is in the vertical axis. The kicking leg (horizontal axis) is moving linear. It looks like there is a lot of arc in the kicking leg.

Very close but your hips are still a little open. Especially relative to where your shoulders are which may be a little over rotated. This could simply be because you are doing an air kick.
The exception here would be if you were intending to follow through with a kick moving forward. However, the upper body does not indicate this.

But Master Woos right arm is doing the same thing

 

[Jaeimseu]

So there is division even within the same style? I noted that you used the word "schools"

There is a ton of variance in Taekwondo schools.


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[Acronym]

It also looks like I'm not yet making impact in that shot.


This is when I make impact[

ATTACH=full]23382[/ATTACH]

 

[Acronym]

There is a ton of variance in Taekwondo schools.


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Does this ITf guy differ from what you consider a back kick in KKW?

 

[Jaeimseu]

Does this ITf guy differ from what you consider a back kick in KKW?

To me, it looks like he’s doing what I’d call back kick when he demonstrates on air, but usually does more what I consider side kick when he hits BOB.

He also includes several meaningless (IMO) details (arms should be 25 cm from the body) that seem to be based on a picture from General Choi’s encyclopedia, which I tend to think is silly and unnecessary.


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[Acronym]

To me, it looks like he’s doing what I’d call back kick when he demonstrates on air, but usually does more what I consider side kick when he hits BOB.

He also includes several meaningless (IMO) details (arms should be 25 cm from the body) that seem to be based on a picture from General Choi’s encyclopedia, which I tend to think is silly and unnecessary.


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I agree that his appeal to authority via the encyclopedia is irrelevant since General Choi and ITF is irrelevant for the other branches of TaeKwonDo. Especially these days with several generations since the KKW took over in South Korea. In the 70s he might have a point...

 

[Acronym]

To me, it looks like he’s doing what I’d call back kick when he demonstrates on air, but usually does more what I consider side kick when he hits BOB.

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I agree, it looks like the side kick general choi threw in the other thread. This bolsters my point that these distinctions get very muddy.... and it's quite confusing to a learning student.

 

[paitingman]

I would agree that it is a hybrid kick if I had to make a call.
I've become deaf to most kick names tbh because I have come across so much variance in how people characterize and name their techniques.

Personally, I have a hard time judging based on photos. Videos are always better.
I describe kicks more based on the way it was executed rather than the final pose. I can throw turning side/back kicks with all different sorts of attitudes and trajectories and still end up in the same position as the photos you shared.
I focus more on what they did and how they did it rather than where the kick ended up.

 

[Acronym]

I would agree that it is a hybrid kick if I had to make a call.
I've become deaf to most kick names tbh because I have come across so much variance in how people characterize and name their techniques.

Personally, I have a hard time judging based on photos. Videos are always better.
I describe kicks more based on the way it was executed rather than the final pose. I can throw turning side/back kicks with all different sorts of attitudes and trajectories and still end up in the same position as the photos you shared.
I focus more on what they did and how they did it rather than where the kick ended up.

I think it's more back kick than side kick in both start and finishing pose. It would be a very ugly side kick otherwise..

I don't think it's a textbook bad back kick either though. The knee should be pointing down in a textbook back kick.

So I consider it a hybrid between the two. The stars seemed to have finally aligned and we are in agreement for once.

 

[dvcochran]

But Master Woos right arm is doing the same thingView attachment 23381

Think about it. An arm that is low and outside is doing what?

 

[Acronym]

Think about it. An arm that is low and outside is doing what?

Keeping my balance due to rustiness. That clip is a year old but I had still not trained for a year then and that kick was not one I used to train.

 

[Acronym]

See here for more confusion. What he labels a standard spinning back kick #1 in contrast to the previous ITF clip, is clearly a side kick turning around. And it looks like he is standing too close to the mitts but that's a separate point

And they are both ITF...

 

[Gerry Seymour]

I'm not TKD, but that's a spinning back kick to me.