Would this work?

[drop bear]

and you do MMA?

yes. And i have never seen defensive striking from someone in turtle.

i am interested to read how this is done.

 

[Tez3]

yes. And i have never seen defensive striking from someone in turtle.

i am interested to read how this is done.

You are assuming he's going to stay exactly where you put him so you can begin your triumphal battering of him?

 

[Zero]

all of those strikes i have mentioned have the potential to knock someone out. At which point the fight is over and i don't have to bother with the rest of it.

everybody wants a quick win.

Great. Why do you have to go into sprawl to then execute those knock-out strikes? What am I missing here?
I've found from my tournament fighting that while they can be a knock-out, generally my strikes (or of those wailing on me) don't have quite the same power or knock-out percentage as a clean strike executed outside of grappling in a ground or other than standing position (my viewing of UFC, Strike Force, Pride etc would support that as well). That's a generalisation obviously. I am not talking about being in clinch and then releasing to deliver a knock-out upper cut, etc. But from delivering blows when tied up with opponent or in sprawl proximity.

 

[drop bear]

You are assuming he's going to stay exactly where you put him so you can begin your triumphal battering of him?

that is the point of trying to get that dominant position. Yes.

 

[Tez3]

that is the point of trying to get that dominant position. Yes.

Ok good luck with that then.

 

[drop bear]

Great. Why do you have to go into sprawl to then execute those knock-out strikes? What am I missing here?
I've found from my tournament fighting that while they can be a knock-out, generally my strikes (or of those wailing on me) don't have quite the same power or knock-out percentage as a clean strike executed outside of grappling in a ground or other than standing position (my viewing of UFC, Strike Force, Pride etc would support that as well). That's a generalisation obviously. I am not talking about being in clinch and then releasing to deliver a knock-out upper cut, etc. But from delivering blows when tied up with opponent or in sprawl proximity.

in a fifty fifty. But aren't you in more danger of being knocked out as well?

that is like suggesting standing toe to toe is the best for self defense because the fight will end more quickly.

i could point this out with a mma ko compilation video.

but which guy are you? The one getting that flush shot or the one eating it.

 

[drop bear]

Ok good luck with that then.

You wouldn't try to get a dominant position?

 

[Zero]

in a fifty fifty. But aren't you in more danger of being knocked out as well?

that is like suggesting standing toe to toe is the best for self defense because the fight will end more quickly.

i could point this out with a mma ko compilation video.

but which guy are you? The one getting that flush shot or the one eating it.

Drop bear, the scenario was not 50/50, the guy who'd dropped the gun was on all fours...why are you sprawling on him and then delivering blows. In that position how is he an immediate knock-out threat to you - unless you lower yourself (sprawl) onto him...?

 

[drop bear]

Drop bear, the scenario was not 50/50, the guy who'd dropped the gun was on all fours...why are you sprawling on him and then delivering blows. In that position how is he an immediate knock-out threat to you - unless you lower yourself (sprawl) onto him...?

you kick him in the head. It doesn't work. He stands up. Or in this case grabs the gun.

 

[Zero]

in a fifty fifty. But aren't you in more danger of being knocked out as well?

that is like suggesting standing toe to toe is the best for self defense because the fight will end more quickly.

i could point this out with a mma ko compilation video.

but which guy are you? The one getting that flush shot or the one eating it.

I have never been trained or been taught to avoid ending the altercation as quickly as possible to avoid the chance of yourself being knocked out. Sure there are layers of techniques you can employ given the scenario facing you and to keep you most protected. You keep yourself protected best you can but the goal is to finish the whole event quick as possible.

No one is suggesting "standing toe to toe" with anyone, you seem to still be just in "tournament mode" and not dealing with a SD scenario.

 

[drop bear]

I have never been trained or been taught to avoid ending the altercation as quickly as possible to avoid the chance of yourself being knocked out. Sure there are layers of techniques you can employ given the scenario facing you and to keep you most protected. You keep yourself protected best you can but the goal is to finish the whole event quick as possible.

No one is suggesting "standing toe to toe" with anyone, you seem to still be just in "tournament mode" and not dealing with a SD scenario.

nobody has. Prolonging a fight is not a tournament mode thing.

standing toe to to is a great way of ending a fight quickly. In theory i could just bull rush the guy and have a really high chance of finishing that fight quickly. But it is high risk that is all.

i am not sure if I would fight high risk in self defence. I would want to be really confident in my striking.

 

[Tez3]

in a fifty fifty. But aren't you in more danger of being knocked out as well?

that is like suggesting standing toe to toe is the best for self defense because the fight will end more quickly.

i could point this out with a mma ko compilation video.

but which guy are you? The one getting that flush shot or the one eating it.

But it's not an MMA competition is it, there's no arm being lifted by the ref at the end. You talk like it's a competition where you can get the win, there are legal considerations too, here at least self defence has to be reasonable, punching the hell out of a guy who is no threat to you is not reasonable, putting yourself back into an altercation because you want to batter your attacker after you have controlled him is not a reasonable thing to do either legally, morally or in common sense terms. If you have never seen anyone punch back in turtle why are you punching him?

 

[Zero]

you kick him in the head. It doesn't work. He stands up. Or in this case grabs the gun.

I still don't follow this, how is this 50/50 given his position? You kick him in the head, it doesn't work, you take it from there and kick him again or do something else that is "on". How has that resulted in you failing or in a situation where the kick initially should be avoided?

I think the kick to the head and failing still has you in a better position than your go to sprawl, and the sprawl failing...oh wait, are you saying that you are 100% sure your execution of the "sprawl-and-pound" you are advocating is not going to fail? Surely you are not (or, wait, are you)...

...Super Man?

Sure where he manages to get the gun - and to turn it on you - will then that is a universal bummer man! Whatever you have done has gone stupendously wrong. That much agreed! That said, you also need to be mentally prepared for that scenario, don't think you are not going to get shot or stabbed or face smashed. You can be shot and still survive but possibly not if you are not prepared for that and simply give out at that stage.

 

[Tony Dismukes]

...when I was jumped by the four guys I put my fist through three of their faces and dropped them in what must have been one second tops, I couldn't even remember doing it). Whatever it is you are going to use, it needs to brutal, it needs to be sudden, it needs to be simple and it needs to be over.

I think we all agree that we would like to be able to finish a fight in a second. Unfortunately, I don't think it's necessarily something we can rely on.

Some people will go down instantly from one decent punch and be out of the fight.

Some people will take an incredible battering (including strikes to vital targets) and keep going.

Some people will take lethal knife and gunshot wounds and keep fighting until they eventually bleed out.

You can go for the quick finish, but you have to be prepared for it not working out.

BTW - a knee to the head from that top sprawl position drop bear is advocating can be as quick a knockout as any other move I can think of.

 

[Zero]

nobody has. Prolonging a fight is not a tournament mode thing.

standing toe to to is a great way of ending a fight quickly. In theory i could just bull rush the guy and have a really high chance of finishing that fight quickly. But it is high risk that is all.

i am not sure if I would fight high risk in self defence. I would want to be really confident in my striking.

I never advocated anything high risk. I don't see the head kick as high risk on the scale of things and on the basis you don't have a gun or other weapon. The head kick is one of the lower risk options.

Again, you are the one talking about standing toe to toe, I don't see this as a toe-to-toe situation with the guy on all fours and you delivering (or attempting to deliver) a head kick so I don't follow where you are coming from on that.

 

[drop bear]

Ok. I did a thread on outfighting for mma after a seminar with a bit of a guru on the subject. And there is all sorts of points made about percentage fighting. But it is a ring thing not a sd thing.

then i found the reactionary gap. Which preaches the same thing.

but out fighting does not push the fight which means you will prolong it.

now of course outfighting is not going to help here because you have to separate that guy from that gun. But the idea of fighting in as safe a manner as you can does.

even if it prolongs the fight.

i would be very hesitant to recommend high risk high reward fighting unless there is a good reason to do so.

so if that gun was up and he was about to shoot a puppy. Go for a hail Mary kick. But if you can get him in a position he cant fight back from

 

[Zero]

I think we all agree that we would like to be able to finish a fight in a second. Unfortunately, I don't think it's necessarily something we can rely on.

Some people will go down instantly from one decent punch and be out of the fight.

Some people will take an incredible battering (including strikes to vital targets) and keep going.

Some people will take lethal knife and gunshot wounds and keep fighting until they eventually bleed out.

You can go for the quick finish, but you have to be prepared for it not working out.

BTW - a knee to the head from that top sprawl position drop bear is advocating can be as quick a knockout as any other move I can think of.

Agreed with all of that. But...the knee to head from top sprawl is not as quick a technique as the kick to head in that situation. There I disagree.

The actual movement of the knee, sure, but not the overall tech.

 

[Zero]

Ok. I did a thread on outfighting for mma after a seminar with a bit of a guru on the subject. And there is all sorts of points made about percentage fighting. But it is a ring thing not a sd thing.

then i found the reactionary gap. Which preaches the same thing.

but out fighting does not push the fight which means you will prolong it.

now of course outfighting is not going to help here because you have to separate that guy from that gun. But the idea of fighting in as safe a manner as you can does.

even if it prolongs the fight.

i would be very hesitant to recommend high risk high reward fighting unless there is a good reason to do so.

so if that gun was up and he was about to shoot a puppy. Go for a hail Mary kick. But if you can get him in a position he cant fight back from

Again, I never said or recommended high risk moves, I don't think anyone else here did either.
Now you are talking about a different scenario with gun in hand. I have only been talking about the initial vid of the Op.

 

[Zero]

You can go for the quick finish, but you have to be prepared for it not working out.

QUOTE]

Agreed. But if it is a strong potential quick finish, no point not going for it in the first place. As said, if needed, you then take it from there and need to be prepared to do so.

 

[drop bear]

I still don't follow this, how is this 50/50 given his position? You kick him in the head, it doesn't work, you take it from there and kick him again or do something else that is "on". How has that resulted in you failing or in a situation where the kick initially should be avoided?

I think the kick to the head and failing still has you in a better position than your go to sprawl, and the sprawl failing...oh wait, are you saying that you are 100% sure your execution of the "sprawl-and-pound" you are advocating is not going to fail? Surely you are not (or, wait, are you)...

...Super Man?

Sure where he manages to get the gun - and to turn it on you - will then that is a universal bummer man! Whatever you have done has gone stupendously wrong. That much agreed! That said, you also need to be mentally prepared for that scenario, don't think you are not going to get shot or stabbed or face smashed. You can be shot and still survive but possibly not if you are not prepared for that and simply give out at that stage.

i can do both. I even said that. But i want that guy secured in a position i control if i can.

if my sprawl fails i can stand up kick him sprawl again.