Would this work?

[ballen0351]

I'm saying that Larkin made it apparent that grappling was an option in that scenario, since he did it himself.

I agree in my opinion the best option is what your best trained in. For me Grappling wouldnt be my first choice. For others that are more comfortable it may be grappling. If I were to grapple Id go more for something to quickly destroy the shoulder or elbow more the trying to pin and hold or choke out.

 

[Hanzou]

If someone is down on all fours and reaching for a gun and you are lined up as in the video then a kick to the head would be a great option in my opinion. I would not be kicking for the throat but instead the jaw line and head in general. Typically this would be a fight ender if you make contact. Totally confident if I make contact it is lights out from this angle. If I was at an angle where the head was not a viable target then I could see engaging in grappling ie. being first to the gun, taking the back and taking the gun in the process, etc. All of that would depend though if it was just a one on one encounter because if there were a lot of people around in combat I wouldn't want to be tied up on the ground where my mobility was limited. I could also see just knocking him over and away from the hand gun and taking it in the process. I could see drawing my backup weapon/tool and finishing the situation.

We are always going to be in conversations and training where "what if" this happened. Quite often I use the phrase their are "no absolutes". Meaning that in one situation what would be the perfect solution will end up possibly getting you killed in another. Not everything will work all the time. You had better have some options! Our training should be flexible, varied and dynamic so that in a moment of violence the proper solution will happen and we will be able to survive! Just my 02.

Thanks for the post Brian. I was starting to think I was living in the twilight zone, where a specialized kick to a small target makes more sense than a basic kick to a big target.

 

[ballen0351]

Thanks for the post Brian. I was starting to think I was living in the twilight zone, where a specialized kick to a small target makes more sense than a basic kick to a big target.

Aim small, miss small. I might aim for the neck but I dont care where it lands as long as it works

 

[Hanzou]

Aim small, miss small. I might aim for the neck but I dont care where it lands as long as it works

In that situation shown in the video where your goal is to do as much damage as possible, would you attempt a shin kick to the throat, or a kick to the head/face?

 

[ballen0351]

In that situation shown in the video where your goal is to do as much damage as possible, would you attempt a shin kick to the throat, or a kick to the head/face?

I don't Like to do shin kicks. So I'm kicking as hard as I can at your face/head.

 

[Zero]

I'm saying that Larkin made it apparent that grappling was an option in that scenario, since he did it himself.

Thanks, understood. Still think there are options that range across the success spectrum and not necessarily all those put forward by Larkin are at the top of the percentile.

 

[Zero]

I don't Like to do shin kicks. So I'm kicking as hard as I can at your face/head.

Shin kicks are great but, agreed, why bother if you have boots or hard toed shoes on? I am still going for the head, for the reasons I and others have put forward, but I guess as an aside if you connected with maximum force with boots or hard pointed shoes to the throat it could very well end in death, stoved in larynx territory, it's not going to be pretty in any event.

 

[drop bear]

See that was hard to actually stay on topic. So you plan is to use your body to pin him down to keep him away from the gun and the some knees? How is your arm still free to reach the gun. Where would you sprawl? Side?front? I can't think of anyway where you could and still reach the gun before him. I don't know if I agree with that. My opinion you want to incapacitate him as fast as you can be it strikes or choked or an arm bar or someway to break him.

sprawling is a position rather than a technique in this case. So i can move around his whole body. So from here hit him from the side. Scoot around to block his path to the gun.

the idea behind this position is that it is designed so he defends in turtle while i feed him punches and knees. So i can generally get a hand or foot free.

as far as disabling strikes. I throw as many as i need.

i can even jump back up kick him in the head and then sprawl back down so he doesn't go anywhere.

 

[drop bear]

cant find really good gnp from turtle so this will do for now. He does lock off the head and arm. You don't have to roll him into a submission. You can just sit north south from there. And have a hand free.

 

[Tez3]

How nice an simple it all is when watching a video or describing how to defeat your 'attacker', shame it's so messy in reality.

 

[drop bear]

another example of positions. Normally you wouldn't go from the side to north south. Because you are a bit safer. But there is nothing stopping you if you wanted to block that path to the gun.

and a top side sub. Which is pretty rare from here.

 

[Hanzou]

Nice vids Drops Bear. Pretty much what I was thinking of choke-wise. Guillotine or RNC, or some variation should work in that situation.

 

[drop bear]

Nice vids Drops Bear. Pretty much what I was thinking of choke-wise. Guillotine or RNC, or some variation should work in that situation.

a flattened out rear naked would be good. I mean if i get hooks in and just keep him on his stomach it should work. I would want that gun secured first though.

there is a head arm where you just stay north south.

by the way for everybody else. When we are talking about these submissions we are not ignoring strikes eyegouges or pressure points. But they are added on after we gain a good control of the guy.

but every chance i get i will feed him.

 

[Tez3]

a flattened out rear naked would be good. I mean if i get hooks in and just keep him on his stomach it should work. I would want that gun secured first though.

there is a head arm where you just stay north south.

by the way for everybody else. When we are talking about these submissions we are not ignoring strikes eyegouges or pressure points. But they are added on after we gain a good control of the guy.

but every chance i get i will feed him.

As he will you...........

 

[Brian R. VanCise]

How nice an simple it all is when watching a video or describing how to defeat your 'attacker', shame it's so messy in reality.

Absolutely Tez3, real violence is very, very, very messy and we both know that it never quite looks like what we practiced in the Training Hall!

 

[drop bear]

As he will you...........

from his non dominant position?

 

[Zero]

sprawling is a position rather than a technique in this case. So i can move around his whole body. So from here hit him from the side. Scoot around to block his path to the gun.

the idea behind this position is that it is designed so he defends in turtle while i feed him punches and knees. So i can generally get a hand or foot free.

as far as disabling strikes. I throw as many as i need.

i can even jump back up kick him in the head and then sprawl back down so he doesn't go anywhere.

Thanks for the vids Drop bear. I know I am sounding like I am just blowing old wind but I was always taught and drilled to end an altercation in a SD situation, or anything other than a ring event, quick as possible, with the least strikes, techs as possible. I thus have concern with this idea of getting in sprawl and moving about wailing on the guy and "throwing as many as I need" - this makes it sound like you seem to have an on-going window of opportunity here, both to inflict damage and to avoid it yourself either from the guy or others.
I ain't no SD expert or anything of the sort but have trained with those that supposedly are and have a bit of real world experience (I simply state that as many people and MAsts don't, including such SD experts...). I have been in real SD situations where I have been attacked (one involving four assailants), one situation where I immobilised a fleeing shoplifter who had broken through several security guards and members of the public and when younger several street and party fights and altercations (the street fights and pub brawls all which I could have avoided but was younger and less inclined to being sensible). I have a pretty good idea of how quickly things can go south and how brutal things can be. That said, I do not have any involvement where a gun was involved.
I am a solid judoka alongside my years of karate and strike fighting and have used submissions, arm bars and guillotines in freestyle and mma tournaments and see myself adequate/average in the grappling game, I am not coming at this from just an ignorant stand-up perspective. All I am saying from my training and actual real experiences, I would not be advocating this idea of "feeding punches and knees etc" in some sprawl or otherwise going to the ground or tying myself up in a move that took more than a second or so to employ (it should actually be much less if possible, when I was jumped by the four guys I put my fist through three of their faces and dropped them in what must have been one second tops, I couldn't even remember doing it). Whatever it is you are going to use, it needs to brutal, it needs to be sudden, it needs to be simple and it needs to be over.

 

[drop bear]

Thanks for the vids Drop bear. I know I am sounding like I am just blowing old wind but I was always taught and drilled to end an altercation in a SD situation, or anything other than a ring event, quick as possible, with the least strikes, techs as possible. I thus have concern with this idea of getting in sprawl and moving about wailing on the guy and "throwing as many as I need" - this makes it sound like you seem to have an on-going window of opportunity here, both to inflict damage and to avoid it yourself either from the guy or others.
I ain't no SD expert or anything of the sort but have trained with those that supposedly are and have a bit of real world experience (I simply state that as many people and MAsts don't, including such SD experts...). I have been in real SD situations where I have been attacked (one involving four assailants), one situation where I immobilised a fleeing shoplifter who had broken through several security guards and members of the public and when younger several street and party fights and altercations (the street fights and pub brawls all which I could have avoided but was younger and less inclined to being sensible). I have a pretty good idea of how quickly things can go south and how brutal things can be. That said, I do not have any involvement where a gun was involved.
I am a solid judoka alongside my years of karate and strike fighting and have used submissions, arm bars and guillotines in freestyle and mma tournaments and see myself adequate/average in the grappling game, I am not coming at this from just an ignorant stand-up perspective. All I am saying from my training and actual real experiences, I would not be advocating this idea of "feeding punches and knees etc" in some sprawl or otherwise going to the ground or tying myself up in a move that took more than a second or so to employ. Whatever it is you are going to use, it needs to brutal, it needs to be sudden and it needs to be over.

all of those strikes i have mentioned have the potential to knock someone out. At which point the fight is over and i don't have to bother with the rest of it.

everybody wants a quick win.

 

[Tez3]

from his non dominant position?

and you do MMA?

 

[drop bear]

Sorry cant edit cos phone.

from those positions i can stand back up pretty quick. The other guy will struggle to stop me. But if I do he can stand up and i no longer get free shots on him.