Would this work?

[Zero]

Like I said, a choke is the only way to be sure. Regardless of size, weight, height, etc. everyone needs air.

Hmmm, so a knock out blow doesn't = KO?
Or like Drop Bear have you also morphed into Super Man so you are 100% sure you can work that choke? A few posts back in another thread you yourself said to be good at any throw you needed to be good at 20 other techniques, in case that throw didn't work. Aren't you going to apply that same logic to this choke of yours?

Regardless of size? Correct, but you gonna go for that choke and get all up close and personal on that 6.5ft 300 pound rhino of a bloke with a neck like a bison?

 

[drop bear]

I've no idea what you are saying, 'legally' I put in my post that here you have to use 'reasonable force' to defend yourself against attack, that mean you can attack first btw but it means that once you have controlled the situation you don't then go in for the sprawl and beat the guy up.
'In the street' an expression that actually means nothing. Most 'street' fights I've ever seen were between willing participants rather than 'attackers and defenders'.

yeah but i am actually quote a source.
Assault violence offences VIC Criminal legal

now if i cause the same damage punching the guy as kicking him. In the head. And especially on the deck.i have committed a bigger crime.

you are looking at the legalities far too simply. Yes there will be circumstances where gnp is not legally defendable. But saying all gnp is not legally defendable,is not really true.

and is a big side tangent to be throwing out there.

 

[Tony Dismukes]

Just out of interest Tony D, and you may have answered already earlier (and you are welcome to fib but please don't) - but on a gut feel, what would be your immediate response to this (what I agree is a some what contrived) position?

I actually did give an answer at the end of the bit of mine that you just quoted.

That said, I went back and re-watched the video. He set up the scenario so that the bad guy had his hand practically to the gun, so my original answer about getting between him and the weapon doesn't apply.

I don't think I would gamble on leading off with the kick. With the setup as shown if the kick doesn't do the job completely then there is nothing to stop the bad guy from emptying the gun into me. He doesn't even have to stand up - if he gets the gun and I don't finish him with the kick then he can just roll over on his back and start shooting. Once we reach that point my follow-up options are pretty bad.

I'd probably go with a sort of modified sprawl (easier to demonstrate than to explain in text) with priority on controlling the arm he is reaching with.

Best case scenario: I intercept his arm before he gets the gun and am able to kick the gun away. Then I can control him long enough to do at least stunning damage before disengaging and going for the gun.

Not as good scenario: He grabs the gun, but I am able to control his arm and keep him from aiming it at me. With top control I have a variety of options to make him drop the gun, which I then kick away before working for the finish.

Worst case scenario: He gets the gun and is able to aim and shoot it at me. If the shot isn't immediately fatal, I'm at least in close enough contact that I have a chance of regaining control of the gun and managing a disarm.

Of course, this is all theory. I've never been in this situation and I doubt that a ton of other people have been either. (Of those people who have been in a similar situation, I suspect a majority are law enforcement or military with the option to use their own firearm before the other guy reaches his.)

 

[ballen0351]

Like I said, a choke is the only way to be sure. Regardless of size, weight, height, etc. everyone needs air.

Have you ever tried to grapple when your scared out of your mind and fighting for your life feet from a gun with a guy that wants to kill you? I havent and dont think I could pull it off. I know it can be hard to even handcuff a compliant guy when your adrenalin is dumped. Its a totally different level of a dump when your fighting fo your life vs training or competitions you may be able to pull it off I dont think I could for me im going to KIck, kick,kick ,kick and kick again until he stops. In that situation do what you do best there is no correct way just do something

 

[Tez3]

yeah but i am actually quote a source.
Assault violence offences VIC Criminal legal

now if i cause the same damage punching the guy as kicking him. In the head. And especially on the deck.i have committed a bigger crime.

you are looking at the legalities far too simply. Yes there will be circumstances where gnp is not legally defendable. But saying all gnp is not legally defendable,is not really true.

and is a big side tangent to be throwing out there.

Your legalities are different from mine obviously. I didn't say GnP wasn't legal I said controlling the attacker so that he is no danger and then bashing him isn't legal which it's not.

 

[Hanzou]

Hmmm, so a knock out blow doesn't = KO?
Or like Drop Bear have you also morphed into Super Man so you are 100% sure you can work that choke? A few posts back in another thread you yourself said to be good at any throw you needed to be good at 20 other techniques, in case that throw didn't work. Aren't you going to apply that same logic to this choke of yours?

A KO from a strike requires you to hit the right point at the right time on the right person. A choke simply requires you to apply it correctly, and your adversary has a few seconds to do something about it before they go to sleep. Keep in mind, we're applying this in a situation where your target is vulnerable, but even beyond that, choking someone out is the most humane way of ending a physical confrontation. The alternative is bashing them in the face until they lose consciousness, or snapping limbs until they're no longer a threat.

Regardless of size? Correct, but you gonna go for that choke and get all up close and personal on that 6.5ft 300 pound rhino of a bloke with a neck like a bison?

I've choked/tapped out people that size, and even larger. I've done that even when they're attempting to fight me off of them, and with striking engaged.

Hence the benefit of alive training in Bjj and MMA.

 

[drop bear]

Who made such a suggestion, where?

PS: it wasn't the "street", it was some shonky back room of a gym with some passable production skills and the presentation of a supposedly believable SD situation and response.

he was wearing cargo pants. That automatically makes it the street.

if they were camouflage he gets extra credibility points.

the comment was made somewhere in there attached to a "never go to the ground because there is that guy waiting to kick you in the head.

extra silly here. Because of that gun. So regardless of how many kicks you eat. You have to control that even if it means rolling around on the ground. And if mr crawly guy has a fried. I imagine he would be going for that gun as well.

 

[tshadowchaser]

The legalities of what can be done and at what time vary so much from place to place, nation to nation that I sometimes wonder if it isn't just best to do all the damage you can to an attacker and take your chances in court or if you should flee the scene if your not in your own home.
The op is a perfect example do you want to be there if serious injury happens to that guy on the ground and can you prove he was going for the weapon and had not stopped being aggressive?
If you ground and pound him he can always say he stopped trying to get the weapon and became compliant but you keep pounding on him when he was unable to defend himslef

 

[Hanzou]

Have you ever tried to grapple when your scared out of your mind and fighting for your life feet from a gun with a guy that wants to kill you? I havent and dont think I could pull it off. I know it can be hard to even handcuff a compliant guy when your adrenalin is dumped. Its a totally different level of a dump when your fighting fo your life vs training or competitions you may be able to pull it off I dont think I could for me im going to KIck, kick,kick ,kick and kick again until he stops. In that situation do what you do best there is no correct way just do something

Have I? No. However, people have choked out assailants when their lives are in danger, so its certainly possible to pull off a complex choke when you're in trouble.

The legalities of what can be done and at what time vary so much from place to place, nation to nation that I sometimes wonder if it isn't just best to do all the damage you can to an attacker and take your chances in court or if you should flee the scene if your not in your own home.
The op is a perfect example do you want to be there if serious injury happens to that guy on the ground and can you prove he was going for the weapon and had not stopped being aggressive?
If you ground and pound him he can always say he stopped trying to get the weapon and became compliant but you keep pounding on him when he was unable to defend himslef

Another reason why a choke may be a better option than bashing his skull in.

 

[drop bear]

Your legalities are different from mine obviously. I didn't say GnP wasn't legal I said controlling the attacker so that he is no danger and then bashing him isn't legal which it's not.

that is pretty much gnp.
well good gnp anyway.

i know a few guys myself included who have pulled knives off people and then gone on a bit of a rampage.

i have never known anyone to even be charged let alone convicted.

i imagine under the circumstances it is seen as reasonable.

 

[ballen0351]

Have I? No. However, people have choked out assailants when their lives are in danger, so its certainly possible to pull off a complex choke when you're in trouble.
.

People "have" done alot of things that doesnt make it a good idea

 

[Tez3]

he was wearing cargo pants. That automatically makes it the street.

if they were camouflage he gets extra credibility points.

the comment was made somewhere in there attached to a "never go to the ground because there is that guy waiting to kick you in the head.

extra silly here. Because of that gun. So regardless of how many kicks you eat. You have to control that even if it means rolling around on the ground. And if mr crawly guy has a fried. I imagine he would be going for that gun as well.

You are joking here right?

The legalities of what can be done and at what time vary so much from place to place, nation to nation that I sometimes wonder if it isn't just best to do all the damage you can to an attacker and take your chances in court or if you should flee the scene if your not in your own home.

This doesn't really work if you are police officer though!

 

[ballen0351]

The legalities of what can be done and at what time vary so much from place to place, nation to nation that I sometimes wonder if it isn't just best to do all the damage you can to an attacker and take your chances in court or if you should flee the scene if your not in your own home.
The op is a perfect example do you want to be there if serious injury happens to that guy on the ground and can you prove he was going for the weapon and had not stopped being aggressive?
If you ground and pound him he can always say he stopped trying to get the weapon and became compliant but you keep pounding on him when he was unable to defend himslef

I dont care about the courts better to be judged by 12 then carried by 6. Ill save my life 1st then Ill worry about what happens next.

 

[Hanzou]

People "have" done alot of things that doesnt make it a good idea

A woman triangle choked a guy trying to rape her at knife point.

Not a good idea?

 

[ballen0351]

A woman triangle choked a guy trying to rape her at knife point.

Not a good idea?

1 huh well there you go

 

[ballen0351]

I knew 1 guy that jumped a fence and his tshirt got caught on the fence and he was hung to death. Better ban tshirts cause it happened once

 

[Hanzou]

1 huh well there you go

Well howabout the wrestler who took down, and RNC'd a burglar and then called the cops?

Not a good idea?

 

[ballen0351]

Well howabout the wrestler who took down, and RNC'd a burglar and then called the cops?

Not a good idea?

LOL again 1? I know a man that beat a burglar with a pickle jar. Like I said just because its done doesn't mean its right but as long as you do something its better then nothing

 

[drop bear]

LOL again 1? I know a man that beat a burglar with a pickle jar. Like I said just because its done doesn't mean its right but as long as you do something its better then nothing

so what is your argument. Chokes cant be pulled off under stress?

of course they can. So if you don't think they are a good idea. You need to come up with a new reason why.

 

[ballen0351]

so what is your argument. Chokes cant be pulled off under stress?

of course they can. So if you don't think they are a good idea. You need to come up with a new reason why.

Where did I say it cant work? Ive said ANYTHING can work. It doesnt make it correct