Women Self Defence!

[Urban Trekker]

But let me check to understand the message and solution..
Tell rapists not to rape. Check, got it
Tell the abusers not to abuse women. Check.
Tell the liars not to lie.
Tell the creepers not to be creepy.
I hate to be a pessimist but I don't think that's gonna change anything.

^^^This.

The Bible (and other religions' equivalents) and the laws of the governments that we fall under already tell people not to do these things. One threatens you with eternal damnation and the other threatens you with years in prison.

If sacred religious texts and laws telling people not to do certain things won't deter someone from doing them, then a random dude telling someone not to do them is wasting his breath.

 

[Tez3]

hI just thought of something I've done several times when I was young (19, 20 years old). I had a few lady friends and acquaintences who'd hit me up, and invite me over for a quickie. Some of them were single mothers.

I can't even count the number of times I walked into the front door, and the chick who invited me over popped in a VHS tape for her kids, as they watched me follow her into the bedroom, and then 20 minutes later they see me come out of the room and head for the front door.

That was over 20 years ago, and I would never have been doing this if I thought the same way back then as I do now.

The thing is this: I'm fairly certain that in none of these cases was I the first guy that these kids had seen doing this, nor was I the last.

Now I can look at it from the perspective that, regardless of a woman's marital or parental status, she has sexual needs to meet. And then I don't have to feel bad.

The other way to look at it: does this negatively affect the way they view their mother? Because that's something I think about when I look back on this.

With a two parent household; children seeing mother bringing in random strange men to have sex with isn't a thing. I mean, it could be in theor

Do I? Let's see...

Seems to me like you're jumping to conclusions as to what I meant by that phrase, while ignoring the probably that I mean the exact same thing that you do.

This doesn't relate to anything I've said.

Here's why I'm calling BS:

First, I've beaten a grown man at the age 15; so I'm not doubting his capability of being able to beat up a grown man at 17.

However, the grown man that I beat up wasn't my father. He wasn't related to me. He was also in his early 20's.

My father is 24 years older than I am. Could 17 year old me beat my 41 year old father? I doubt it. Thankfully, I've never been in a position where I had to find out. Being of the same flesh and blood, all other factors between my father and I were equal. All except that "old man strength," rough skin, chest hair - you know, those signs of virility that don't come in until your late 20's or early 30's - just weren't there.

I doubt the children seeing their mother having sex would harm them especially if she enjoyed it, witnessing violence however is damaging at any age. It never fails to amaze us non Americans how you can let your children watch so much violence yet get hysterical if they as much as see a woman's bare nipple.




I see that yet again you are missing my points, deliberately so. You refuse to discuss anything that doesn't agree with your views.

You seem to have missed where jobo said his father was full of beer when he beat his wife, so all your convoluted equations go out of the window. Beating up a drunk man is quite easy, it's just a shame it had to be done, for a son to have to do it is even more of a shame, I have no doubts at all it needed to be done so good on him for doing it. Just because you couldn't have beaten your father doesn't mean others can't have.

 

[Tez3]

Here's where I'm confused - and it's not because of anything you've said:

I'm married with three children. Let's say my wife passes away, and I'm suddenly raising three children on my own.

If my children saw random women coming through the front door and following me to the bedroom all the time, I'm fairly certain that they'd think negatively of me for it as well.

Granted, it may or may not be for different reasons. Or the reasons that we think are different are really the same or vice versa.

If you were raising 3 kids on your own you wouldn't have the energy left for sex

 

[JowGaWolf]

I see absolutely no reason to make this political, it's nothing actually to do with the law, the police or what family situation people come from.

I have no idea what you mean by 'women act out violence towards men'.

It requires a change of attitude by many people which should be taught to their sons. It requires a backing down of the feeling of entitlement many men have towards women, they are not entitled to pat them on the backside or brush up against their breasts. They aren't entitle to sex in return for buying a female a meal, they aren't entitled to anything a woman doesn't want to give them. They aren't entitled to wolf whistle at young girls or kerb crawl, they aren't entitled to take advantage of a female who's drunk, they aren't entitled to sexually abuse women who are in a subordinate position to them in the workplace.

Stop telling girls that a boy fancies them when he pulls her bra elastic, he doesn't, that's sexual harrassment. Stop making sexual comments to women you aren't in a relationship with, we don't want to hear them. Stop sending dick pics, stop getting abusive just because a woman turns you down for a date, stop grading women.

Stop using the excuse 'boys will be boys' when they behave badly, stop having double standards where make and females are concerned, stop telling girls to put up with boys bad behaviour.

Start seeing females as human beings not as something there to gratify men. Start treating women as you'd want to be treated.

This isn't down to single parent families, if boys are brought up by a single mother they are more likely to respect women!

90% of assaults on women are committed by someone known to the victim, random attacks are actually quite rare. What a woman wears is of no concern to anyone, no woman 'asks for it'. However a woman deals with sexual assault is fine, if she didn't fight it doesn't mean it wasn't rape! A woman's sexual history is not a reason to assume she was asking to be raped. Women don't say no but mean yes, no means no.

I could go on but I doubt you have read this far and certain haven't digested the contents, you will be muttering angrily 'I don't do this, that or whatever', and calling me a liberal feminist as a slur. Fine, you asked but I want to see well rounded young boys growing up to be decent men living and working in harmony with women not female hating incels with a propensity for violence or entitled men who treat women as a commodity.

For a lot of the reason that mention is why I think emotion / mental control is needed. I don't like the "I grew up bad" logic. Because there are peoplewho grew up in good homes and loving parents who grow up to be monsters

 

[Urban Trekker]

I doubt the children seeing their mother having sex would harm them especially if she enjoyed it, witnessing violence however is damaging at any age. It never fails to amaze us non Americans how you can let your children watch so much violence yet get hysterical if they as much as see a woman's bare nipple.

Let's see here: In the UK, you have the Teenage Mutant Hero Turtles. Why? Because you can't say "ninja" on TV shows aimed towards children in the UK. You also can't show nunchaku in children's TV, so the scenes of Michelangelo wielding them are edited out.

The Transformers cartoon movie from 1986. Look up the intro to the movie on YouTube where Unicron devours Lithone.

In the UK, that scene was removed and replaced with a Star Wars-like prologue explaining what happened.

If you ask us Americans, we'd say that your kids are the ones that are sheltered.

Furthermore, as far as how promiscuity among women is viewed; it's the same thing in the UK. I'd be here all day if I posted links to YouTube videos of sexually frustrated British men talking about it.

I see that yet again you are missing my points, deliberately so. You refuse to discuss anything that doesn't agree with your views.

No, I'm not. I'm just not addressing things that go off the subject. You want me to defends points I never made, and I refuse to do it.

You seem to have missed where jobo said his father was full of beer when he beat his wife, so all your convoluted equations go out of the window. Beating up a drunk man is quite easy, it's just a shame it had to be done, for a son to have to do it is even more of a shame, I have no doubts at all it needed to be done so good on him for doing it. Just because you couldn't have beaten your father doesn't mean others can't have.

So his father had to be drunk for him to pull it off? Makes better sense now.

However, I still say in a battle of father vs son; the son being a teenager and the father being late 30's/early 40's, too many other factors are equal for the father to not have a significant edge.

 

[Urban Trekker]

I also want to add this: there really shouldn't be a discussion on the difference of morality between the US and the UK. We were 150 years removed from each other (give or take) when the TV started appearing in living rooms, so we may differ in what can be shown.

But outside of that, where do you think we got our morals from?

 

[Tez3]

Let's see here: In the UK, you have the Teenage Mutant Hero Turtles. Why? Because you can't say "ninja" on TV shows aimed towards children in the UK. You also can't show nunchaku in children's TV, so the scenes of Michelangelo wielding them are edited out.

The Transformers cartoon movie from 1986. Look up the intro to the movie on YouTube where Unicron devours Lithone.

In the UK, that scene was removed and replaced with a Star Wars-like prologue explaining what happened.

If you ask us Americans, we'd say that your kids are the ones that are sheltered.

Furthermore, as far as how promiscuity among women is viewed; it's the same thing in the UK. I'd be here all day if I posted links to YouTube videos of sexually frustrated British men talking about it.


No, I'm not. I'm just not addressing things that go off the subject. You want me to defends points I never made, and I refuse to do it.

So his father had to be drunk for him to pull it off? Makes better sense now.

However, I still say in a battle of father vs son; the son being a teenager and the father being late 30's/early 40's, too many other factors are equal for the father to not have a significant edge.

The Ninja Turtle thing was a copyright issue and the scene from Transformers wasn't removed when I saw it with my then young son.

Our children do not go on killing spree in their schools.

Your misunderstandings pile up, you replied to my posts first, I pointed out you did not address any of my points, just posted up your opinions on single mothers.

No he didn't HAVE to be drunk but he was obviously a pisshead. I know 17 year olds who can take on an adult and win, after all, if they can't why are we teaching them martial arts?

Men who post on IT about their sexual frustration are called incels............. and why do you watch these guys, why do you even know about the videos?

 

[Tez3]

^^^This.

The Bible (and other religions' equivalents) and the laws of the governments that we fall under already tell people not to do these things. One threatens you with eternal damnation and the other threatens you with years in prison.

If sacred religious texts and laws telling people not to do certain things won't deter someone from doing them, then a random dude telling someone not to do them is wasting his breath.

You aren't

So I'm a male and obviously men are deplorable things that society could do without. We are obviously guilty by group identification.
But let me check to understand the message and solution..
Tell rapists not to rape. Check, got it
Tell the abusers not to abuse women. Check.
Tell the liars not to lie.
Tell the creepers not to be creepy.
I hate to be a pessimist but I don't think that's gonna change anything.

I wouldn't assume to know anyone else's environment but jeepers Tez you paint a picture that sounds like it's right out of the 1950's. Cat calling, is that really a thing anymore?
I also have a real problem with the assumption that there is a direct correlation between cat calling, D Pic sending disrespectful behavior and actual physical violence. While an abuser will be disrespectful, the inverse of assumption that being disrespectful is equal to or a automatic precursor to violence is just wrong. No matter how you slice and dice the words it looks like male bashing guilt by group identity association from my side of the spectrum.
And Tez yes I read your entire post.

You read, but sadly did not understand. You did exactly what I said you would and no, I'm not happy to be proved correct.

I did not say there's a correlation between cat calling etc I'm saying teach your sons not to do it and don't do it yourself.
Oh and that means women shouldn't excuse it by saying boys will be boys, it's on everyone.
Yes cat calling IS a thing, a big thing that affects young girls as well as adult females. You clearly haven't talked to enough women about this.

 

[Urban Trekker]

The Ninja Turtle thing was a copyright issue and the scene from Transformers wasn't removed when I saw it with my then young son.

The Complete History of Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles | Mental Floss

Co-creator Peter Laird was kind enough to answer our burning questions about the franchise. Cowabunga, dudes.

www.mentalfloss.com

Not sure if we're talking about the same movie from 1986, but if we are, I can say for certain that it was never removed here.

Our children do not go on killing spree in their schools.

Because they don't have the means.

Your misunderstandings pile up, you replied to my posts first, I pointed out you did not address any of my points, just posted up your opinions on single mothers.

Uh, no I didn't. Single mothers aren't even my focus. My focus is your claim that boys raised by single mothers are more respectful of women. That's just simply not true.

No he didn't HAVE to be drunk but he was obviously a pisshead.

Now you're contradicting yourself.

I know 17 year olds who can take on an adult and win, after all, if they can't why are we teaching them martial arts?

I told you, I pulled it off when I was 15. But, again, this guy wasn't my father nor was he related to me. In other words, he was not a bigger, stronger, more virile version of myself. When someone claims to have beaten a bigger, stronger, more virile version of themselves; you've gotta ask questions.

Men who post on IT about their sexual frustration are called incels............. and why do you watch these guys, why do you even know about the videos?

Probably the same reason as you. Or maybe not. You've got a lot history buffs out there without a degree in history. You could probably say that I'm the same way with sociology.

 

[Tez3]

I also want to add this: there really shouldn't be a discussion on the difference of morality between the US and the UK. We were 150 years removed from each other (give or take) when the TV started appearing in living rooms, so we may differ in what can be shown.

But outside of that, where do you think we got our morals from?

You got your morals from the ultra Puritans who left the UK for America because they weren't allowed to oppress the population with their awful views on how life should be lived. You didn't get them from the rest of us.

 

[Urban Trekker]

You got your morals from the ultra Puritans who left the UK for America because they weren't allowed to oppress the population with their awful views on how life should be lived. You didn't get them from the rest of us.

Ah, you mean that insignificant population in Massachusetts that was outnumbered by people of other religious views in the rest of the colonies? Anglican Church (now Episcopal here in the US) was still the largest Christian denomination in the colonies at the time, followed by Presbyterianism. The math there just doesn't compute. Besides, Massachusetts eventually became a British colony, so their escape from the British crown was temporary at best.

 

[Tez3]

The Complete History of Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles | Mental Floss

Co-creator Peter Laird was kind enough to answer our burning questions about the franchise. Cowabunga, dudes.

www.mentalfloss.com

Not sure if we're talking about the same movie from 1986, but if we are, I can say for certain that it was never removed here.

Because they don't have the means.

Uh, no I didn't. Single mothers aren't even my focus. My focus is your claim that boys raised by single mothers are more respectful of women. That's just simply not true.

Now you're contradicting yourself.

I told you, I pulled it off when I was 15. But, again, this guy wasn't my father nor was he related to me. In other words, he was not a bigger, stronger, more virile version of myself. When someone claims to have beaten a bigger, stronger, more virile version of themselves; you've gotta ask questions.

Probably the same reason as you. Or maybe not. You've got a lot history buffs out there without a degree in history. You could probably say that I'm the same way with sociology.

Actually we have plenty of firearms here, we are just more careful who can have them.

I didn't 'claim' boys raised by single mothers are more respectful, it wasn't a statement of fact for goodness sake. I was suggesting it would be likely

Jono didn't claim anything of the sort, you are being very imaginative here, it's like you are having a conversation with yourself. He said he beat his dad up,
you supplied the imaginary detail.

Socialogy? I respectfully suggest you pick another subject instead, woodworking perhaps.

 

[Urban Trekker]

Actually we have plenty of firearms here, we are just more careful who can have them.

In other words... they don't have the means. Not having the means to do evil doesn't make you good. It's choosing not to do evil, despite having the means, that does.

I didn't 'claim' boys raised by single mothers are more respectful, it wasn't a statement of fact for goodness sake. I was suggesting it would be likely

Walking it back, I see. Very good.

Jono didn't claim anything of the sort, you are being very imaginative here, it's like you are having a conversation with yourself. He said he beat his dad up,
you supplied the imaginary detail.

You don't read very well. To quote jobo:

i was just him, only 25 years younger, he wasnt going to win that

Besides, he didn't even have to say it.

Socialogy? I respectfully suggest you pick another subject instead, woodworking perhaps.

Yep, I've got a suggestion for you based on this quote. Even doubly so, if I have to tell you what it is.

 

[hoshin1600]

You aren't

You read, but sadly did not understand. You did exactly what I said you would and no, I'm not happy to be proved correct.

I did not say there's a correlation between cat calling etc I'm saying teach your sons not to do it and don't do it yourself.
Oh and that means women shouldn't excuse it by saying boys will be boys, it's on everyone.
Yes cat calling IS a thing, a big thing that affects young girls as well as adult females. You clearly haven't talked to enough women about this.

Tez, I did read it and I do understand. What you tend not to see is that I often agree with you. Unfortunately we have different experiences and very different world and political views.
That's OK, I don't post here much anymore because it's just not a healthy environment. Not unlike the rest of the world.
Intolerance and cancel culture rules now. It's sad.
Enjoy your conversation.

 

[Monkey Turned Wolf]

I didn't 'claim' boys raised by single mothers are more respectful, it wasn't a statement of fact for goodness sake. I was suggesting it would be likely

I've got no real desire to be involved in the actual discussion here, but I think there's some confusion stemming specifically from word phrasing and academia vs. common usage. Your statement was "This isn't down to single parent families, if boys are brought up by a single mother they are more likely to respect women!"

I see where he assumes that meant you were claiming a fact, while you didn't mean it that way. If I'm understanding you correctly, you simply meant that you think it's likely that the kid of a single mother would respect women. But the way that you wrote it initially suggests that you were stating, statistically, boys brought up by single mothers are more likely to respect women then boys not brought up by single mothers. Meaning, if you found a way to tally how much each person respected, it would be a (for argument's sake) 5/7 for men brought up by single mothers, and 3.5/7 for those not. So each individual boy would be more likely to respect women. Not the best at explaining things, but hope that helped.

 

[Steve]

A few years back, I asked the women in my life if they've ever dealt with inappropriate sexual behavior. 100% of them said yes, but that's not even what struck me. I was kind of expecting that. It was that they were so matter of fact about it. The cat calls, objectification, and casual disregard are pervasive and baked into our culture, and that's something those of us who aren't pervy and creepy can do something about. Like I said, this is a very large topic that sprawls across a wide strata. This isn't necessarily the time and place for it, but there's a lot to discuss.

I do think we've made a lot of progress. Think about the comedy movies from the 70s and 80s. For example, there's a scene in Animal House that is clearly rape. At the time, it was comedy. But you show that scene to kids today and they are horrified. And rightfully so. In the 80s, considering whether or not to rape a woman who is passed out was considered funny.

 

[Urban Trekker]

I've got no real desire to be involved in the actual discussion here, but I think there's some confusion stemming specifically from word phrasing and academia vs. common usage. Your statement was "This isn't down to single parent families, if boys are brought up by a single mother they are more likely to respect women!"

I see where he assumes that meant you were claiming a fact, while you didn't mean it that way. If I'm understanding you correctly, you simply meant that you think it's likely that the kid of a single mother would respect women. But the way that you wrote it initially suggests that you were stating, statistically, boys brought up by single mothers are more likely to respect women then boys not brought up by single mothers. Meaning, if you found a way to tally how much each person respected, it would be a (for argument's sake) 5/7 for men brought up by single mothers, and 3.5/7 for those not. So each individual boy would be more likely to respect women. Not the best at explaining things, but hope that helped.

The fact that she tried to defend the statement after I criticized it isn't helping her claim that she didn't mean it as a fact, but I'm going to leave that alone and take her word for it.

 

[Tez3]

^^^This.

The Bible (and other religions' equivalents) and the laws of the governments that we fall under already tell people not to do these things. One threatens you with eternal damnation and the other threatens you with years in prison.

If sacred religious texts and laws telling people not to do certain things won't deter someone from doing them, then a random dude telling someone not to do them is wasting his breath

if you care to read the original writings in the original languages you'll find no mention of eternal damnation.

Ah, you mean that insignificant population in Massachusetts that was outnumbered by people of other religious views in the rest of the colonies? Anglican Church (now Episcopal here in the US) was still the largest Christian denomination in the colonies at the time, followed by Presbyterianism. The math there just doesn't compute.

Yep that's them, Xtians.

Tez, I did read it and I do understand. What you tend not to see is that I often agree with you. Unfortunately we have different experiences and very different world and political views.
That's OK, I don't post here much anymore because it's just not a healthy environment. Not unlike the rest of the world.
Intolerance and cancel culture rules now. It's sad.
Enjoy your conversation.

 

[Urban Trekker]

if you care to read the original writings in the original languages you'll find no mention of eternal damnation.

Doesn't matter. That's how the current population understands it.

Yep that's them, Xtians.

Yep, and it's also lack of attempt to refute anything I said.

 

[Tez3]

The fact that she tried to defend the statement after I criticized it isn't helping her claim that she didn't mean it as a fact, but I'm going to leave that alone and take her word for it.

Dear me, I wasn't 'trying to defend it', I was just pointing out you were wrong. I took what you said as you disagreeing not a criticism. You are somewhat combatative.