Women Self Defence!

[jobo]

Oh, it definitely does go deep, and that's something I could talk forever about.

But the statement that boys raised by single mothers are more inclined to respect women? Dead wrong. Aside from what I said in #355, here are two reasons (among possible dozens of others) why that statement is wrong:

- Aside from unusual circumstances - such as the death of the father, woman receiving donated sperm, or a woman otherwise becoming a single mother on purpose - the very existence of the vast majority of single mothers is the result of men disrespecting women. And it's in an environment where the boy is going to grow up seeing other men do the same thing to other women, and he's learning from those other men.
- A young boy being raised by a single mother is not growing up in a household where he can continuously observe the proper way for a man to treat a woman.

well that only works as an argument if the twin parent household in question has a male role model who treats women correctly and as you have absolutely no idea what % of households that is, your point cant stand

 

[Tez3]

Eh, no. You don't need stats to know this because it's pretty observable, but it's in the environments and communities where single mothers are the most common that women and girls are the most vulnerable.

I'm curious to know why you think that?

It's also not addressing my point about male attitudes to females which are perpetrated, and condoned by a great part of society. It's seen in government, by celebrities, by the media and in what would be considered good religious families. Look at the men who send unsolicited dick pics, where's the statistics for tnat? Why do so many men send them? Why do they think they can do that? It's the thin edge of the wedge, an example of attitude that leads men to believe they can do what they like. We need to stop enabling.

Gang violence and criminal activity is something I'm quite familiar with but it's not what I'm talking about in this instance.

 

[Steve]

Oh, it definitely does go deep, and that's something I could talk forever about.

But the statement that boys raised by single mothers are more inclined to respect women? Dead wrong. Aside from what I said in #355, here are two reasons (among possible dozens of others) why that statement is wrong:

- Aside from unusual circumstances - such as the death of the father, woman receiving donated sperm, or a woman otherwise becoming a single mother on purpose - the very existence of the vast majority of single mothers is the result of men disrespecting women. And it's in an environment where the boy is going to grow up seeing other men do the same thing to other women, and he's learning from those other men.
- A young boy being raised by a single mother is not growing up in a household where he can continuously observe the proper way for a man to treat a woman.

Okay, but here's the thing. Let's accept for a moment that your assertion is true. Is it the single mom as the cause, or is single parent household a symptom of a larger issue with multiple causes? As I said, it's a grossly complex issue that is being oversimplified to make a point.

 

[Urban Trekker]

well that only works as an argument if the twin parent household in question has a male role model who treats women correctly and as you have absolutely no idea what % of households that is, your point cant stand

Good thing there are stats to back up the results of children being raised in two-parent homes vs single parent homes.

 

[Urban Trekker]

Okay, but here's the thing. Let's accept for a moment that your assertion is true. Is it the single mom as the cause, or is single parent household a symptom of a larger issue with multiple causes? As I said, it's a grossly complex issue that is being oversimplified to make a point.

I'm not pointing the finger at anyone or anything. What I'm doing is refuting the assertion that single-mother households are somehow ideal.

 

[Urban Trekker]

Look at the men who send unsolicited dick pics, where's the statistics for tnat? Why do so many men send them? Why do they think they can do that? It's the thin edge of the wedge, an example of attitude that leads men to believe they can do what they like. We need to stop enabling.

The only way this can possibly contribute to your point is if we establish a correlation with single-parent households - which is what I'm focusing on right now, maybe you're talking about some bigger picture.

In which case, I'll be happy to address this bigger picture.

Most young men these days don't know that it's disrespectful. They're sending dick pics out of ignorance, not malice. Many men (of all ages) wrongly assume that what turns us on also turns women on. So that's that.

And to tie this back to what I was addressing; if a father was in the home when they were growing up, they'd likely learn this from him.

 

[jobo]

Oh, it definitely does go deep, and that's something I could talk forever about.

But the statement that boys raised by single mothers are more inclined to respect women? Dead wrong. Aside from what I said in #355, here are two reasons (among possibly dozens of others) why that statement is wrong:

- Aside from unusual circumstances - such as the death of the father, woman receiving donated sperm, or a woman otherwise becoming a single mother on purpose - the very existence of the vast majority of single mothers is the result of men disrespecting women. And it's in an environment where the boy is going to grow up seeing other men do the same thing to other women, and he's learning from those other men.
- A young boy being raised by a single mother is not growing up in a household where he can continuously observe the proper way for a man to treat a woman.

Good thing there are stats to back up the results of children being raised in two-parent homes vs single parent homes.

stats that relate to attitude to women, in twin v single parent household ? please post them

go on be honest, you just made that up didn't you ?

 

[Urban Trekker]

stats that relate to attitude to women, in twin v single parent household ? please post them

go on be honest, you just made that up didn't you ?

Male Perpetrators of Child Maltreatment: Findings from NCANDS

Contents Introduction Previous Research on Male Perpetrators Research on Fathers and Child Well-Being The Objective of This Study Methodology Creation of the Unique Perpetrator Database Limitations to Analyses of These Data Findings What are the charac

aspe.hhs.gov

 

[jobo]

And to tie this back to what I was addressing; if a father was in the home when they were growing up, they'd likely learn this from him.

or they might learn to treat women badly or they may watch their mother being abused by father and vow never to do that themselves

my dad used to periodically hit my mother, this stopped when i was 17 and battered him to a bloody mush

 

[jobo]

Male Perpetrators of Child Maltreatment: Findings from NCANDS

Contents Introduction Previous Research on Male Perpetrators Research on Fathers and Child Well-Being The Objective of This Study Methodology Creation of the Unique Perpetrator Database Limitations to Analyses of These Data Findings What are the charac

aspe.hhs.gov

its attitude to women you claim to have stats for, you cant just post random stats and think its acceptable

 

[Urban Trekker]

or they might learn to treat women badly or they may watch their mother being abused by father and vow never to do that themselves

my dad used to periodically hit my mother, this stopped when i was 17 and battered him to a bloody mush

Uh huh. So you just stood by and watched it happen. And at 17, you were suddenly capable of beating your father to a "bloody mush."

Yeah, I don't think you need to be going around accusing others of making things up.

 

[jobo]

Uh huh. So you just stood by and watched it happen. And at 17, you were suddenly capable of beating your father to a "bloody mush."

Yeah, I don't think you need to be going around accusing others of making things up.

he didn't do it when the kids were there, usually late at night when full off beer and there wasn't much i could do about it, there wasn't much i could do when he battered me, he was a big guy, however aged 17, i put on something of a grow spurt and played a lot of rugby and suddenly the boot was on the other foot, literally in this case

i was just him, only 25 years younger, he wasnt going to win that

 

[Steve]

Good thing there are stats to back up the results of children being raised in two-parent homes vs single parent homes.

When you think of a two parent household, does that include two men or two women as well?

 

[Urban Trekker]

I just thought of something I've done several times when I was young (19, 20 years old). I had a few lady friends and acquaintences who'd hit me up, and invite me over for a quickie. Some of them were single mothers.

I can't even count the number of times I walked into the front door, and the chick who invited me over popped in a VHS tape for her kids, as they watched me follow her into the bedroom, and then 20 minutes later they see me come out of the room and head for the front door.

That was over 20 years ago, and I would never have been doing this if I thought the same way back then as I do now.

The thing is this: I'm fairly certain that in none of these cases was I the first guy that these kids had seen doing this, nor was I the last.

Now I can look at it from the perspective that, regardless of a woman's marital or parental status, she has sexual needs to meet. And then I don't have to feel bad.

The other way to look at it: does this negatively affect the way they view their mother? Because that's something I think about when I look back on this.

With a two parent household; children seeing mother bringing in random strange men to have sex with isn't a thing. I mean, it could be in theory, but I doubt that's the case in practice much.

 

[Tez3]

Oh, it definitely does go deep, and that's something I could talk forever about.

But the statement that boys raised by single mothers are more inclined to respect women? Dead wrong. Aside from what I said in #355, here are two reasons (among possibly dozens of others) why that statement is wrong:

- Aside from unusual circumstances - such as the death of the father, woman receiving donated sperm, or a woman otherwise becoming a single mother on purpose - the very existence of the vast majority of single mothers is the result of men disrespecting women. And it's in an environment where the boy is going to grow up seeing other men do the same thing to other women, and he's learning from those other men.
- A young boy being raised by a single mother is not growing up in a household where he can continuously observe the proper way for a man to treat a woman.

Wow.

I do admire the fact that when you jump to conclusions you go large

You also seem to have a poor opinion of men.

However you miss the point........ again.

'The proper way to treat a woman' ..........not sexist ...much! A proper way to treat a woman (or man) is how you would want to be treated, there should be no difference in the way you treat people based on their gender. You can learn respect and decent behaviour off any decent human being.

One example of entitled male behaviour is of the young male student from a so called good family who sexually assaulted a young unconscious female. He was given a light sentence because his father pleaded he was a good student and boys will be boys. What example is that father and that judge? what is that teaching young men?

What about families with single fathers, my goodness, how bad must they be without gasp! a woman!

Decent human beings are decent human beings, we all have a responsibility to young people and this means everyone needs to look at their attitude towards each other and NOT about how it's good to 'grab her pussy'

Uh huh. So you just stood by and watched it happen. And at 17, you were suddenly capable of beating your father to a "bloody mush."

Yeah, I don't think you need to be going around accusing others of making things up.

I see 17 year olds everyday who are more than capable of beating a 'grown' man up. There's no need to accuse someone of making things up when you aren't getting the points anyone is making here. You are very defensive and perhaps in denial about something either that or a politician with an agenda.

 

[Steve]

I just thought of something I've done several times when I was young (19, 20 years old). I had a few lady friends and acquaintences who'd hit me up, and invite me over for a quickie. Some of them were single mothers.

I can't even count the number of times I walked into the front door, and the chick who invited me over popped in a VHS tape for her kids, as they watched me follow her into the bedroom, and then 20 minutes later they see me come out of the room and head for the front door.

That was over 20 years ago, and I would never have been doing this if I thought the same way back then as I do now.

The thing is this: I'm fairly certain that in none of these cases was I the first guy that these kids had seen doing this, nor was I the last.

Now I can look at it from the perspective that, regardless of a woman's marital or parental status, she has sexual needs to meet. And then I don't have to feel bad.

The other way to look at it: does this negatively affect the way they view their mother? Because that's something I think about when I look back on this.

With a two parent household; children seeing mother bringing in random strange men to have sex with isn't a thing. I mean, it could be in theory, but I doubt that's the case in practice much.

Oh man... now we're getting into another pretty deep topic about how we Americans conflate sexuality and morality, how we hold women to different standards of sexual behavior than men, and all kinds of screwy ideas we have about promiscuity and self-worth. to be clear, I think you make a fair point. And if we're looking for ways that men who aren't creepy and rapey want to help, it's to get over these puritanical notions of sexuality that largely only been applied to women, and stop conflating morality with a behavior that is natural and very predictable.

 

[Urban Trekker]

Wow.

I do admire the fact that when you jump to conclusions you go large

You also seem to have a poor opinion of men.

However you miss the point........ again.

Do I? Let's see...

'The proper way to treat a woman' ..........not sexist ...much! A proper way to treat a woman (or man) is how you would want to be treated, there should be no difference in the way you treat people based on their gender. You can learn respect and decent behaviour off any decent human being.

Seems to me like you're jumping to conclusions as to what I meant by that phrase, while ignoring the probably that I mean the exact same thing that you do.

One example of entitled male behaviour is of the young male student from a so called good family who sexually assaulted a young unconscious female. He was given a light sentence because his father pleaded he was a good student and boys will be boys. What example is that father and that judge? what is that teaching young men?

What about families with single fathers, my goodness, how bad must they be without gasp! a woman!

Decent human beings are decent human beings, we all have a responsibility to young people and this means everyone needs to look at their attitude towards each other and NOT about how it's good to 'grab her pussy'

This doesn't relate to anything I've said.

I see 17 year olds everyday who are more than capable of beating a 'grown' man up. There's no need to accuse someone of making things up when you aren't getting the points anyone is making here. You are very defensive and perhaps in denial about something either that or a politician with an agenda.

Here's why I'm calling BS:

First, I've beaten a grown man at the age 15; so I'm not doubting his capability of being able to beat up a grown man at 17.

However, the grown man that I beat up wasn't my father. He wasn't related to me. He was also in his early 20's.

My father is 24 years older than I am. Could 17 year old me beat my 41 year old father? I doubt it. Thankfully, I've never been in a position where I had to find out. Being of the same flesh and blood, all other factors between my father and I were equal. All except that "old man strength," rough skin, chest hair - you know, those signs of virility that don't come in until your late 20's or early 30's - just weren't there.

 

[Urban Trekker]

Oh man... now we're getting into another pretty deep topic about how we Americans conflate sexuality and morality, how we hold women to different standards of sexual behavior than men, and all kinds of screwy ideas we have about promiscuity and self-worth. to be clear, I think you make a fair point. And if we're looking for ways that men who aren't creepy and rapey want to help, it's to get over these puritanical notions of sexuality that largely only been applied to women, and stop conflating morality with a behavior that is natural and very predictable.

Here's where I'm confused - and it's not because of anything you've said:

I'm married with three children. Let's say my wife passes away, and I'm suddenly raising three children on my own.

If my children saw random women coming through the front door and following me to the bedroom all the time, I'm fairly certain that they'd think negatively of me for it as well.

Granted, it may or may not be for different reasons. Or the reasons that we think are different are really the same or vice versa.

 

[Steve]

Here's where I'm confused - and it's not because of anything you've said:

I'm married with three children. Let's say my wife passes away, and I'm suddenly raising three children on my own.

If my children saw random women coming through the front door and following me to the bedroom all the time, I'm fairly certain that they'd negatively of me for it as well.

Granted, it may or may not be for different reasons. Or the reasons that we think are different are really the same or vice versa.

Would they? I don't know if that's a given. Once again, this is itself a pretty beefy topic and I dont' think it benefits from oversimplification. Suffice to say for now that the different reasons are important, IMO.

 

[hoshin1600]

So I'm a male and obviously men are deplorable things that society could do without. We are obviously guilty by group identification.
But let me check to understand the message and solution..
Tell rapists not to rape. Check, got it
Tell the abusers not to abuse women. Check.
Tell the liars not to lie.
Tell the creepers not to be creepy.
I hate to be a pessimist but I don't think that's gonna change anything.

I wouldn't assume to know anyone else's environment but jeepers Tez you paint a picture that sounds like it's right out of the 1950's. Cat calling, is that really a thing anymore?
I also have a real problem with the assumption that there is a direct correlation between cat calling, D Pic sending disrespectful behavior and actual physical violence. While an abuser will be disrespectful, the inverse of assumption that being disrespectful is equal to or a automatic precursor to violence is just wrong. No matter how you slice and dice the words it looks like male bashing guilt by group identity association from my side of the spectrum.
And Tez yes I read your entire post.