Women Self Defence!

[hoshin1600]

Here we go on this merry-go-round again.

Men should stop telling women what they should do and instead address the problem of male violence against women.

Address the problem of male violence...how exactly? I mean seriously tell us how to do that, exactly.. This is a problem because no one has that answer. At least one that works. We have this system called "The Law" and a penalty system called "prison". But most folks today are trying to "De-fund" the prison system along with the people we hired to enforce those laws. On top of that no one is willing to invest in early intervention programs. Men have been violent since the dawn of time. I'm not saying it's right, I'm just saying wishing on a star that it will go away is naive at best.

Also it is a known statistical fact that women act out violence towards men more frequently but men have a greater power disparity. So the consequences are more severe.

It's also a known fact that males raised by a single parent are more likely to not do well in school, turn to gang involvement and be more violent when they fail to be successful in the world.
And yet certain groups and ideologies are pushing to do away with the standard nuclear family.
As ancient wisdom says, "You reap what you sow". The way I see it, things have the potential to get wayyyy worse.
Good luck with that.

 

[JowGaWolf]

Not nearly as many females commit violence against other females as you seem to think, the figures are considerably smaller. Some women are just as brutal? You sound surprised, why? You think women are not human beings?

So many men who think they are experts on women's experience of how life is.

I'm not surprised, we have more than our healthy dose of violence here.

If it's made into a gender issue then the wrong approach is going to happen. For example, Men should learn not to be violent against women. I agree. But I also agree that men should learn not be violent against, other men, children and animals.

The problem is. I can't control the violence that other do. There's a lot that other people should do. But using that as reason not to learn self-defense is a big mistake. If a person has the capability to put their own safety into their hands then they should do.

 

[JowGaWolf]

I used to argue with them. I'm a little slow, but learned better after a while. Privately, I still think I might have had a few good points, but I'm not dumb enough to say so in front of them.

ha ha ha.. Translation. You don't say anything because you just sit back and watch as they learn the hard way, what you would have said to them in the beginning. You aren't the only married with kids ha ha ha

Husbands shut up because we treasure peace lol. And we only say the truth like this when our wives aren't reading over our shoulders ha ha ha.

 

[geezer]

... But most folks today are trying to "De-fund" the prison system along with the people we hired to enforce those laws

Most folks? Really? I had no idea. I rub shoulders with a lot of folks on the "left" and the "right" ...and only a few out on the fringes take that defund stuff literally. Most think more in terms of "reform" ...and reform requires more funding, not less.

...And yet certain groups and ideologies are pushing to do away with the standard nuclear family.

Not at all interested in bringing up politics on this site, ...but I haven't heard of anybody "right" or "left" who's against nuclear families.

It is a sad fact that ever increasing numbers of young conservative working class couples without college degrees are deciding to have children out of wedlock and never marry, while a much higher percent of college educated, liberal professionals (including same sex couples) do marry and maintain strong families. Is that what you were referring to?

Either way, what does any of that have to do with the OP ???

 

[jobo]

Most folks? Really? I had no idea. I rub shoulders with a lot of folks on the "left" and the "right" ...and only a few out on the fringes take that defund stuff literally. Most think more in terms of "reform" ...and reform requires more funding, not less.


Not at all interested in bringing up politics on this site, ...but I haven't heard of anybody "right" or "left" who's against nuclear families.

It is a sad fact that ever increasing numbers of young conservative working class couples without college degrees are deciding to have children out of wedlock and never marry, while a much higher percent of college educated, liberal professionals (including same sex couples) do marry and maintain strong families. Is that what you were referring to?

Either way, what does any of that have to do with the OP ???

it may be a fact ? but why is it a SAD fact

 

[geezer]

Here we go on this merry-go-round again.

Address the problem of male violence...how exactly? I mean seriously tell us how to do that, exactly.. This is a problem because no one has that answer. At least one that works. We have this system called "The Law" and a penalty system called "prison" On top of that no one is willing to invest in early intervention programs. Men have been violent since the dawn of time. I'm not saying it's right, I'm just saying wishing on a star that it will go away is naive at best.

Also it is a known statistical fact that women act out violence towards men more frequently but men have a greater power disparity. So the consequences are more severe.

It's also a known fact that males raised by a single parent are more likely to not do well in school, turn to gang involvement and be more violent when they fail to be successful in the world.
And yet certain groups and ideologies are pushing to do away with the standard nuclear family.
As ancient wisdom says, "You reap what you sow". The way I see it, things have the potential to get wayyyy worse.
Good luck with that.

it may be a fact ? but why is it a SAD fact

touché

 

[hoshin1600]

Most folks? Really? I had no idea. I rub shoulders with a lot of folks on the "left" and the "right" ...and only a few out on the fringes take that defund stuff literally. Most think more in terms of "reform" ...and reform requires more funding, not less.


Not at all interested in bringing up politics on this site, ...but I haven't heard of anybody "right" or "left" who's against nuclear families.

It is a sad fact that ever increasing numbers of young conservative working class couples without college degrees are deciding to have children out of wedlock and never marry, while a much higher percent of college educated, liberal professionals (including same sex couples) do marry and maintain strong families. Is that what you were referring to?

Either way, what does any of that have to do with the OP ???

Ok I will have to qualify my post a little. I live in massachusetts which is very liberal thinking. So I might have a bias based on my own surroundings however the narrative is driven by the media.
That being said I think defunding anything is counter to preventing violence.
Deconstructing the nuclear family is a thing. I won't go further with that topic but it's easy to Google. It's spelled out very explicitly in certain group websights.
I think marriage might have less to do with it than actually having a stable household and upbringing with a positive male role model but statisticaly two parent housholds fair better for children.
What does this have to do with the previous posts? Well I was somewhat answering my own question of how to reduce male violence against women, while pointing out that the very mechanisms that could do that are challenged and often frowned upon in modern culture.

 

[JowGaWolf]

What does this have to do with the previous posts? Well I was somewhat answering my own question of how to reduce male violence against women,

I don't think such a thing can be done on such a narrow scale.

1. Address the issue of violence

2. When addressing #1 understand that violence is neither bad or go. It is a means to achieve the goals

3. Define the goals in which people are using violence to fulfill. Uncontrolled emotion, Mental illness? Security? Survival? Social inadequacy? Sport? Self- Perception

4. Once you build a good classification you can then identify the goal, the triggers and find other means in which to assist a person to reach the same thing. For those without a goal, then it would necessary to understand the triggers.

5. Provide Mental, Emotional, and Life counseling as a normal part of life. So that people can access it when needed.

6. Everyone is going to hate this one, but I don't think it can be done without it. Keep a record of it and track behavior and triggers.
Something or someone has to be ale to track and identify critical changes. Even if it's to let the individual know that they are about to go off the deep end. Sort of like the girlfriend who has more sense than the boyfriend and knows him well enough to know when to pull him away from a bad situation.

7. The system that would manage this would need to be free from conspiracy and would need to have trust. Because after you do #6 it's going to create a lot of that.

This is not the only or even the right way to go about it. But what it does is highlight the complexities that exist in trying to stop violence. As you read what I posted you probably came up with a lot of those complex exceptions.


My personal thought about violence is to accept it as part of being human and then learn to control our taste for violence instead of violence controlling us. It seems like the more we deny it the more violent we become not only physical, but emotional, and mental. I'm always amazed at how many people enjoy fighting and training to fight in a controlled environment and how they all talk about not letting emotion drive the fight. I like how those same people often speak of how they like hitting the heavy bag and all of the stress from the day goes goes away, with a great deal of it leaving for good.

We just need to accept the good and the bad of who we are as humans on a personal and social level and do what most of already understand. Don't let the emotion control the fight.

 

[geezer]

Ok I will have to qualify my post a little. I live in massachusetts which is very liberal thinking. So I might have a bias based on my own surroundings however the narrative is driven by the media.
That being said I think defunding anything is counter to preventing violence.
Deconstructing the nuclear family is a thing. I won't go further with that topic but it's easy to Google. It's spelled out very explicitly in certain group websights.
I think marriage might have less to do with it than actually having a stable household and upbringing with a positive male role model but statisticaly two parent housholds fair better for children.
What does this have to do with the previous posts? Well I was somewhat answering my own question of how to reduce male violence against women, while pointing out that the very mechanisms that could do that are challenged and often frowned upon in modern culture.

I have to laugh. You are a conservative in Massachusetts, and I'm a liberal in Arizona ....which means we probably see things about the same! I will check out some of the things you mentioned. Thanks for the thoughtful response to my somewhat snarky remarks, bro.

 

[hoshin1600]

I don't think such a thing can be done on such a narrow scale.

1. Address the issue of violence

2. When addressing #1 understand that violence is neither bad or go. It is a means to achieve the goals

3. Define the goals in which people are using violence to fulfill. Uncontrolled emotion, Mental illness? Security? Survival? Social inadequacy? Sport? Self- Perception

4. Once you build a good classification you can then identify the goal, the triggers and find other means in which to assist a person to reach the same thing. For those without a goal, then it would necessary to understand the triggers.

5. Provide Mental, Emotional, and Life counseling as a normal part of life. So that people can access it when needed.

6. Everyone is going to hate this one, but I don't think it can be done without it. Keep a record of it and track behavior and triggers.
Something or someone has to be ale to track and identify critical changes. Even if it's to let the individual know that they are about to go off the deep end. Sort of like the girlfriend who has more sense than the boyfriend and knows him well enough to know when to pull him away from a bad situation.

7. The system that would manage this would need to be free from conspiracy and would need to have trust. Because after you do #6 it's going to create a lot of that.

This is not the only or even the right way to go about it. But what it does is highlight the complexities that exist in trying to stop violence. As you read what I posted you probably came up with a lot of those complex exceptions.


My personal thought about violence is to accept it as part of being human and then learn to control our taste for violence instead of violence controlling us. It seems like the more we deny it the more violent we become not only physical, but emotional, and mental. I'm always amazed at how many people enjoy fighting and training to fight in a controlled environment and how they all talk about not letting emotion drive the fight. I like how those same people often speak of how they like hitting the heavy bag and all of the stress from the day goes goes away, with a great deal of it leaving for good.

We just need to accept the good and the bad of who we are as humans on a personal and social level and do what most of already understand. Don't let the emotion control the fight.

Nice thoughtful post.
I would point out that it's not like society hasn't studied this topic.
The scientific literature has been done and put out for quite some time.
The root cause analysis shows that children from 2yrs to 4 yrs are the most violent. Meaning hitting, kicking and biting. But most children are socialized out of this behavior by the age of 4. The children who don't, show that the aggressive behavior never goes away and these become anti- social behaviors which continues into adulthood. These are your teen and adult violent offenders.
There are also strong correlations between offenders and prior victims. meaning children who are victims of physical and sexual abuse have a higher likelihood of becoming perpetrators.

The bottom line is violence and agonistic behaviors have been studied and we know the causes and possible interventions. But as a society and a culture we won't implement or fund it.

 

[hoshin1600]

Anyone that wants to dig deeper should look up Dr. Richard Tremblay. Over the last 40 years he has studied violence and criminality. He has done longitudinal studies over the course of the participants life time from conception to adulthood. If I am not mistaken I think he has a few books out. I haven't read them so I can't recommend them from that perspective but I am aware of his work.

 

[Steve]

There are several other threads on this topic and they're all full of a bunch of dudes telling women that the facts aren't facts. It's telling that all but one woman seem to have pretty much left the forum completely, much less choose not to participate in these threads.

I encourage anyone who is new to these topics to go back and read through some of the historic topics in this subforum and also the women's self defense subforum. Some actual women post in them and they know their ****.

 

[Tez3]

Here we go on this merry-go-round again.

Address the problem of male violence...how exactly? I mean seriously tell us how to do that, exactly.. This is a problem because no one has that answer. At least one that works. We have this system called "The Law" and a penalty system called "prison". But most folks today are trying to "De-fund" the prison system along with the people we hired to enforce those laws. On top of that no one is willing to invest in early intervention programs. Men have been violent since the dawn of time. I'm not saying it's right, I'm just saying wishing on a star that it will go away is naive at best.

Also it is a known statistical fact that women act out violence towards men more frequently but men have a greater power disparity. So the consequences are more severe.

It's also a known fact that males raised by a single parent are more likely to not do well in school, turn to gang involvement and be more violent when they fail to be successful in the world.
And yet certain groups and ideologies are pushing to do away with the standard nuclear family.
As ancient wisdom says, "You reap what you sow". The way I see it, things have the potential to get wayyyy worse.
Good luck with that.

I see absolutely no reason to make this political, it's nothing actually to do with the law, the police or what family situation people come from.

I have no idea what you mean by 'women act out violence towards men'.

It requires a change of attitude by many people which should be taught to their sons. It requires a backing down of the feeling of entitlement many men have towards women, they are not entitled to pat them on the backside or brush up against their breasts. They aren't entitle to sex in return for buying a female a meal, they aren't entitled to anything a woman doesn't want to give them. They aren't entitled to wolf whistle at young girls or kerb crawl, they aren't entitled to take advantage of a female who's drunk, they aren't entitled to sexually abuse women who are in a subordinate position to them in the workplace.

Stop telling girls that a boy fancies them when he pulls her bra elastic, he doesn't, that's sexual harrassment. Stop making sexual comments to women you aren't in a relationship with, we don't want to hear them. Stop sending dick pics, stop getting abusive just because a woman turns you down for a date, stop grading women.

Stop using the excuse 'boys will be boys' when they behave badly, stop having double standards where make and females are concerned, stop telling girls to put up with boys bad behaviour.

Start seeing females as human beings not as something there to gratify men. Start treating women as you'd want to be treated.

This isn't down to single parent families, if boys are brought up by a single mother they are more likely to respect women!

90% of assaults on women are committed by someone known to the victim, random attacks are actually quite rare. What a woman wears is of no concern to anyone, no woman 'asks for it'. However a woman deals with sexual assault is fine, if she didn't fight it doesn't mean it wasn't rape! A woman's sexual history is not a reason to assume she was asking to be raped. Women don't say no but mean yes, no means no.

I could go on but I doubt you have read this far and certain haven't digested the contents, you will be muttering angrily 'I don't do this, that or whatever', and calling me a liberal feminist as a slur. Fine, you asked but I want to see well rounded young boys growing up to be decent men living and working in harmony with women not female hating incels with a propensity for violence or entitled men who treat women as a commodity.

 

[Urban Trekker]

Men should stop telling women what they should do and instead address the problem of male violence against women.

Or I can meet you half way on this. I'll simply continue to do what I've been doing my whole life: not telling women what they should do, but also not assuming responsibility for someone else's actions because they have the same genitals that I have.

 

[Urban Trekker]

This isn't down to single parent families, if boys are brought up by a single mother they are more likely to respect women!

Eh, no. You don't need stats to know this because it's pretty observable, but it's in the environments and communities where single mothers are the most common that women and girls are the most vulnerable.

 

[jobo]

There are several other threads on this topic and they're all full of a bunch of dudes telling women that the facts aren't facts. It's telling that all but one woman seem to have pretty much left the forum completely, much less choose not to participate in these threads.

I encourage anyone who is new to these topics to go back and read through some of the historic topics in this subforum and also the women's self defense subforum. Some actual women post in them and they know their ****.

apart from the fact your trying to install some sort of apatite. here are you of the view that men shouldn't have an opinion on this topic or just that they shouldn't be allowed to express it ?

 

[Tez3]

Or I can meet you half way on this. I'll simply continue to do what I've been doing my whole life: not telling women what they should do, but also not assuming responsibility for someone else's actions because they have the same genitals that I have.

that's a fair one.

 

[Steve]

I think the subject of single parenting and how it relates to crime statistics (at least in the USA) must also consider the impact of racism, discrimination against gay couples, and a cycle of poverty... among many other things. Point being it's a very complex topic, and oversimplification and similar reductive fallacies are particularly seductive.

In other news, has the women's self defense subforum been hidden, or has it been deleted? And out of curiosity, if it's just hidden from most users, does anyone still post in it, or has it died?

 

[jobo]

I think the subject of single parenting and how it relates to crime statistics (at least in the USA) must also consider the impact of racism, discrimination against gay couples, and a cycle of poverty... among many other things. Point being it's a very complex topic, and oversimplification and similar reductive fallacies are particularly seductive.

In other news, has the women's self defense subforum been hidden, or has it been deleted? And out of curiosity, if it's just hidden from most users, does anyone still post in it, or has it died?

assuming you are a ..dude'' it seems dudes opinions are ok as you've just expressed one, so it must only be opinions you don't agree with that you have a problem with and want to see censored

 

[Urban Trekker]

I think the subject of single parenting and how it relates to crime statistics (at least in the USA) must also consider the impact of racism, discrimination against gay couples, and a cycle of poverty... among many other things. Point being it's a very complex topic, and oversimplification and similar reductive fallacies are particularly seductive.

Oh, it definitely does go deep, and that's something I could talk forever about.

But the statement that boys raised by single mothers are more inclined to respect women? Dead wrong. Aside from what I said in #355, here are two reasons (among possibly dozens of others) why that statement is wrong:

- Aside from unusual circumstances - such as the death of the father, woman receiving donated sperm, or a woman otherwise becoming a single mother on purpose - the very existence of the vast majority of single mothers is the result of men disrespecting women. And it's in an environment where the boy is going to grow up seeing other men do the same thing to other women, and he's learning from those other men.
- A young boy being raised by a single mother is not growing up in a household where he can continuously observe the proper way for a man to treat a woman.