Women in Wing Chun

[Eru Ilúvatar]

If you live in Texas and are at real risk of violent crime you might want to consider backing your Wing Chun up with appropriate tools. Texas has very liberal concealed carry laws, and a .45 makes an unmistakable "Bang means No!" statement in flawless English, Spanish, Mongolian and !Kung click-dialect

For a self-defense program, especially for beginners you have to give them as much as possible as quickly as possible. If they're interested there's time later for refined technique. What they almost always need is disinhibition, increased capacity for violence and a few simple tools. Chainsaw rather than rapier. It will make them less likely to be targetted, more able to flip the switch and fight if they are and more likely to do what they need to when they do.

Thats some pretty good advice in my opinion!

 

[Si-Je]

My moma always said, "if you carry a snowball, your going to be in a snowball fight!"

I think that would apply to guns too.
And, "being the fastest gun in the west means that everyone wants to shoot you."

I'd really rather not suppily a weapon like that to an attacker that took me by surprise, or may disarm me. With a toddler around it's worse. She can play with the billy club to an extent safely, but the very though of a gun that I have to carry regularly and that would be laying around too accessible gives me a heart attack!

But, I'd like to pass on what I know open handed to other women so as to take the initial fear away for the day to day. And, if they wish, to make sure they have the ability and time to get to their gun.

 

[Eru Ilúvatar]

My moma always said, "if you carry a snowball, your going to be in a snowball fight!"

I think that would apply to guns too.
And, "being the fastest gun in the west means that everyone wants to shoot you."

I'd really rather not suppily a weapon like that to an attacker that took me by surprise, or may disarm me.

Thats one of the reasons why I don't carry knives or expandable batons with me. Plus where I'm from if you stab a guy you could getscrewed by the law even if you did so while defending from multiple unarmed attackers. It's considered you had the superior hand or something and you overdid the situation(hard for me to explain).

Hey, I heard something along the lines that now teachers can carry guns to schools in Texas becouse of all the school shootings. Is that true?

 

[Si-Je]

Thats one of the reasons why I don't carry knives or expandable batons with me. Plus where I'm from if you stab a guy you could getscrewed by the law even if you did so while defending from multiple unarmed attackers. It's considered you had the superior hand or something and you overdid the situation(hard for me to explain).

Hey, I heard something along the lines that now teachers can carry guns to schools in Texas becouse of all the school shootings. Is that true?

Not that I'm aware of. No guns are allowed on any school property. But, they are trying to pass a law that would alow you to carry a gun WITHOUT concealing it. lol!
Just like the old west! Go on down to cowtown and get you one of those old replica gunslinger holsters and slap that bad boy on yer hip! I'm wondering what folks will vote on that one.
Besides, concealed or not (especially not, lol!) I would think that defense against having you weapon taken from you from behind, or by surprise would now be your main concern when carrying a firearm. Whereas, when unarmed you deal with the situation a little more directly and just attack the attacker with swift and blinding violence. not having to worry about them getting lucky or taking a few shots just to grab your gun off your hip, out of your bag, purse, holster, whatever.
Besides, you draw that gun, you better be full on ready to kill someone. And I am not.

 

[Yoshiyahu]

The Gun is two prone offensive weapon. If someone gets to close to shoot him them with the gun on their head alls you need is an inch then booom...But you don;t have to kill someone unless they got a gun. Best to shoot them in the knee caps. If someone has a knife and they are like

three feet away from you. You run...They chase you pull your gun out aim it at them...chances are they going to run. I don't care who they are. Unless they got a gun they are not going keep coming for you. But if their crazy or something they might...But all criminals and thugs got more sense than that. Part of the terriority. You run when you see a gun or police. Thats what thugs do. They don't try to struggle with you for the gun like in movies. If they run you safe. But keep your gun concealed. A friend of mines wore two pair of pants. He had one pair of blue jeansthat had a little holster on the belt for his gun. The other pair were sweat pans that were big enough to go over the Jeans. So his gun was concealed an in Holster. You have go into his pants and open the holster to get his gun. Also you wear Bevs...Those are great for wearing over a second pair of pants to conceal weapons.

But I wish the no conceal law was in my state...right on man...i would vote for it. Just like in the days of Shaolin people carried Swords....The gun is equivlent to the sword...The people should have their right to carry swords. I gurantee you most of thugs I knew as a kid either had guns or knew someone who had guns. Its just the law abiding citizens back in the day who didn't have them...sad!

Not that I'm aware of. No guns are allowed on any school property. But, they are trying to pass a law that would alow you to carry a gun WITHOUT concealing it. lol!

Just like the old west! Go on down to cowtown and get you one of those old replica gunslinger holsters and slap that bad boy on yer hip! I'm wondering what folks will vote on that one.

Besides, concealed or not (especially not, lol!) I would think that defense against having you weapon taken from you from behind, or by surprise would now be your main concern when carrying a firearm. Whereas, when unarmed you deal with the situation a little more directly and just attack the attacker with swift and blinding violence. not having to worry about them getting lucky or taking a few shots just to grab your gun off your hip, out of your bag, purse, holster, whatever.

Besides, you draw that gun, you better be full on ready to kill someone. And I am not.

 

[Mystic Wolf]

What is up with the guns?
You have to get to the gun first, unless you walk around 24/7 with it in your hand.
Me personally, don't like guns. When I go hunting, I use a bow and a knife.
Ever gone hog hunting with a knife?

 

[Mystic Wolf]

Now back on subject, are there any high level women WC/WT practitioners in the U.S.A.?

 

[Yoshiyahu]

I would perfer a spear and bow and arrow. I would keep a rambo knife on my side..I got get to another one...I lost it a while back...But ne way. Guns are the equivelent to the sword. Its the same way with the Sword. You have unsheeth your sword. You have unsheeth your gun too. But the same way with a knife. You still have to pull it out. What ever the weapon. My prefrence would be long pole. But the law won't allow you carry a Pole around with you. But a gun you can have a conceal and carry. Personally A Pole or sword never runs out of bullets. An will defeat any attacker with a knife. But the Gun is what is allowed in our society. I had a relative who shot 5 men dead who were trying to rob him. He didn't go to jail it was classified as self defense. But had he used his MA and bare hands to beat those guys to death with hands and feet. He might have done some time. Its easier to shoot them then to use your skills. That way if you die its not deemed as excessive force. Either you Iron palm the back of head and kill some of them or you shoot them all in the head and kill all of them.

If we both went to court for self defence. I did shooting of only three men and you beat and killed fifthteen men with your bare hands.

I would be consider a person who was trying to defend himself. You would be seen as a lethal weapon that was a threat to society. You would be seen as a monster.

Its true guns don't kill people but people kill people! The Gun can be controlled or regulated but your skills in killing can not. If you can do what a gun can do. Then your uncontrolable threat that can't be taking away. If you got a gun, Society feels well all we have to do is take his gun away and he can't hurt us. But if you possess iron palm then how can society take your skill away. A gun is a weapon. But you who can kill with your bare hands are consider a living,Breathing,free thinking Walking Weapon.

I go free you don't

Your a threat!

What is up with the guns?
You have to get to the gun first, unless you walk around 24/7 with it in your hand.
Me personally, don't like guns. When I go hunting, I use a bow and a knife.
Ever gone hog hunting with a knife?

 

[mook jong man]

Now back on subject, are there any high level women WC/WT practitioners in the U.S.A.?

I have heard of one , and very feisty she is too , I think she goes by the name of Si-Je .
Seriously mate , there could be a couple in the USA , but I think there is probably more chance of them being in Canada especially if they are chinese .

In my experience a lot of Hong Kong chinese either migrate to Australia or Canada , nothing against the USA but it is probably easier for them to get in because they are commonwealth countries .

That being said there is probably more Sifus that have migrated to Canada and have senior female students .

Also not forgetting Germany which is also a hotbed of activity because you have the Leung Ting empire over there and truth be told he's likely to have the most female WC/WT talent on the whole planet because he has so many schools .

 

[Si-Je]

I know, bummer. I thought Sifu Fung had a female Sifu in Hawaii, I could totally be wrong though. I haven't been able to find her old school website anymore and can't remember the name. (I saw the site almost 3 years ago.)

Fiesty, harumph, who me? :whip1:
I really don't qualify as a female sifu or advanced student. I've yet to learn bui gee. (I've gotten snipits of application but not the full form yet.) But, my training has been an on and off thing for the past 4 years, with work, marriage, and a kiddo, and now going back to school there's just always something breaking up my training time. :drinkbeer lol!

Yoshi, that analagy you gave of the gun being the sword of today and the sheathing and all made me think of "Romeo and Juliet" with Leonardo DiCaprio where their guns were their "broadswords" and "rapiers". lol!
Yes, I dig that movie, thought it was creative depiction of shakespear in a modern setting even if it was fanciful, that made the shakespearian speach fit in better in a make believe modern city. Okay, like ya'll needed that visual! lol!

But, honestly, I just don't understand why there's not more female students, or sifu's in the states. There are plenty of schools espectially in Cali, NY, up state, and such. There's a LT WT school in Houston Texas I believe. What's the dealie-ooooo?
I want to know, I want more women to teach! I'm tired of playing around with the guys all the time, I want girl time too! But all the fun tough girls go to MMA and kickboxing! arrrgggghhh! I'm not asking for much, just a couple, one or two?!?! :tantrum:

sigh, okay, I'm done now.

 

[mook jong man]

I was just thinking when you mentioned the guns , maybe it could be because you are allowed to carry guns and knives over there that there is less of a need to learn a martial art .

Some people would probably think it is easier to buy a gun than to learn a martial art for a couple of years and have to invest a lot of sweat and time to get proficient .

I don't know I'm just surmising , ladies over here can't carry weapons so they don't get a choice they either learn self defence of the hand to hand variety or they are likely to become a victim .

 

[Carol]

Personally I'd love to see more women in Wing Chun too. I know of a Sifu that wanted more female students in his class so badly he offered to train me at no charge if I would join up.

The majority of women take on physical activity for weight loss. MMA and kickboxing deliver that in spades...which leaves a bunch of us with just guys to bang on.

 

[mook jong man]

Personally I'd love to see more women in Wing Chun too. I know of a Sifu that wanted more female students in his class so badly he offered to train me at no charge if I would join up.

The majority of women take on physical activity for weight loss. MMA and kickboxing deliver that in spades...which leaves a bunch of us with just guys to bang on.

That is very true , it is possible to lose weight through vigorous chi sau sparring . But in most reputable schools the women would have to be there for quite a while before she got to do that . So I can see the appeal for women in doing the high fat burning MMA workouts like combos on the thai pads , sprawling and grappling etc.

There can also be a bit of an embarassment factor in chi sau , I had a lady student in my class once who was very well endowed in the chest department , and in chi sau you try to cultivate the reflex of your hands springing forward automatically if there is no counterforce .

So what would happen is that sometimes peoples hands would spring forward and accidentally touch her breasts , she didn't have a problem with it , she knew it was only training .

But some of the guys had a problem with it and got embarrassed and sort of avoided pairing up with her .

 

[Yoshiyahu]

Well Thankyou Si-Je...lol...ha ha the romeo and juliet ha ha movie...i remember that now...Actually in my small opinion I think the who Romeo and JUliet storty was fanciful even in Shakesperes time thats why it was written and later became a play. Something for theather like are movies we watch on Television that depicts how life should be but not really true. Remember back in Shakesperes day no movies and DVD and Download. So Theathers,Plays, and stories had to be very very exaggerated and very very entertaining to hold the readers attention. Of course today it sounds over done. But many of our movies will sound over done in a hundred years.

But as for women don't throw a fit lol...ha ha...anyway why does Leung Ting have so many students. How did he make Wing Chun become so popular over in england? I mean really did he do it with out a media outlet how was he able to become so big?

I know, bummer. I thought Sifu Fung had a female Sifu in Hawaii, I could totally be wrong though. I haven't been able to find her old school website anymore and can't remember the name. (I saw the site almost 3 years ago.)

Fiesty, harumph, who me? :whip1:
I really don't qualify as a female sifu or advanced student. I've yet to learn bui gee. (I've gotten snipits of application but not the full form yet.) But, my training has been an on and off thing for the past 4 years, with work, marriage, and a kiddo, and now going back to school there's just always something breaking up my training time. :drinkbeer lol!

Yoshi, that analagy you gave of the gun being the sword of today and the sheathing and all made me think of "Romeo and Juliet" with Leonardo DiCaprio where their guns were their "broadswords" and "rapiers". lol!
Yes, I dig that movie, thought it was creative depiction of shakespear in a modern setting even if it was fanciful, that made the shakespearian speach fit in better in a make believe modern city. Okay, like ya'll needed that visual! lol!

But, honestly, I just don't understand why there's not more female students, or sifu's in the states. There are plenty of schools espectially in Cali, NY, up state, and such. There's a LT WT school in Houston Texas I believe. What's the dealie-ooooo?
I want to know, I want more women to teach! I'm tired of playing around with the guys all the time, I want girl time too! But all the fun tough girls go to MMA and kickboxing! arrrgggghhh! I'm not asking for much, just a couple, one or two?!?! :tantrum:

sigh, okay, I'm done now.

 

[Yoshiyahu]

Man if I was sixteen and single I would have been her partner for life. I wish we had female classmates when I was a kid...

Nothing but hard bodies...lol...

That is very true , it is possible to lose weight through vigorous chi sau sparring . But in most reputable schools the women would have to be there for quite a while before she got to do that . So I can see the appeal for women in doing the high fat burning MMA workouts like combos on the thai pads , sprawling and grappling etc.

There can also be a bit of an embarassment factor in chi sau , I had a lady student in my class once who was very well endowed in the chest department , and in chi sau you try to cultivate the reflex of your hands springing forward automatically if there is no counterforce .

So what would happen is that sometimes peoples hands would spring forward and accidentally touch her breasts , she didn't have a problem with it , she knew it was only training .

But some of the guys had a problem with it and got embarrassed and sort of avoided pairing up with her .

 

[mook jong man]

Man if I was sixteen and single I would have been her partner for life. I wish we had female classmates when I was a kid...

Nothing but hard bodies...lol...

You would have been all over her like a rash , that's why if you were in my class I'd make sure I paired you up with the big , strong , hairy bloke , with a face only a mother could love. :lol:

 

[Si-Je]

I was just thinking when you mentioned the guns , maybe it could be because you are allowed to carry guns and knives over there that there is less of a need to learn a martial art .

Some people would probably think it is easier to buy a gun than to learn a martial art for a couple of years and have to invest a lot of sweat and time to get proficient .

I don't know I'm just surmising , ladies over here can't carry weapons so they don't get a choice they either learn self defence of the hand to hand variety or they are likely to become a victim .

This is true to an extent. But, the cost of buying a gun with all accessories, bullets, case, cleaning supplies, and paying for the gun classes you have to take to get licensed, and paying for the liscense would be the same as about 6-8 months fee to take our classes. lol!
Plus, many women have kids and don't want guns in the house. We're allowed to carry and conceal, but many people still in Texas just don't like guns. Their not a good thing to have in your life anyway you look at it.

Many women do neither. Neither gun or self-defense. They just depend on a boyfriend, or husband. I hear that alot. They just don't see an everyday need for training. That's why I try to emphasise the fun of it too, health, and cardio, competition, whatever gets them all jazzed up about learning. I'm thinking that's why the women's selfdefense classes aren't just filling up.
I've got to figure out how to market WC to the women in Texas. Good thing I'm going to school for business! lol!
It's all in the marketing and such in running these things, all in your pitch, in your presentation, and representations. People don't largely care if an art is superior, more practical, or effectient. They want the fun fad that EVERYONE'S doing. Until we can tap into that through mass media, your just not going to see alot of men or women in classes.

They've proven to me that women don't mind getting hit and slamed or treated rough in class, so, it's not because WC is a striking art. They've proven to me that the women are just a competitive as the men and want to compete in the cage and such, so, women would compete for us at the school.
But, unfortuanally, women have also shown me that they want to learn to fight, think, and be tough like a man. This mentality is not conducive to WC /WT training whether your a man or a woman. Just too much emphasis on brute strength. I've been marketing "Wing Chun, strong enough for a man, but made by a woman!" lol!
I thought it was catchy and cute, and to the point. But, it's the totally wrong slogan. I need, "wing Chun, learn how to fight like a man by fighting with men."
That's more like what women are wanting, from what I've seen.

Well, screw all. I'm about to chuck it off as a total loss. I wanted a women's class just for the women I don't even have in class! lol!
(we have one now, just as of this week! )
I'll focus on training my daughter when she's a bit older and she'll be awesome before she's old enough to really understand the implications of what she's training, the politics, the blah, blah. It'll just be the "ching chun" (that's how she says wing chun) that she runs around the living room singing everytime we play a video, the wing chun she already knows and loves. Marketing hasn't gotten ahold of her yet. lol!

 

[Yoshiyahu]

As for classes...make sure you take Marketing and Advertising classes...That will help you. As you said women want to be see as strong and tough like a man. Because if they are strong like a man they don't need a man to fight for them. But a woman being strong like a man her size won't help her fight a woman who is bigger than her. Thats where the epiphanny will come. When they realize hey I am the same size as my boyfriend and I can beat his ****. But ole Fat Suzy down the street wore me out...She kick my **** up and down the street. Why Si-Je?


Well now you can tell them about not using force but redirection. Some women need experience. The whole thing about using leverage and redirection won't sink in until they realize they need more than just strength.

Yes, Women and some Men are not interested in Martial Art for self defence. They want to be able to fight hard. An destroy their enemy. They want to be tough. They don't want to be afraid. They want their enemies to fear them you know. Thats why I share Wing Chun as self Offense. It is Martial or War System. It trains you for combat. Defense sounds more passive. I know my Sifu didn't teach me self defense. He taught me how to hurt and shut down a person. My Aikido training was about Self Defense. Thats probably why it never worked. Wing Chun answer is if they attack you attack their attack. If they retreat gain contact an attack. If they stop you attack some more. One Sifu once said don't defend too much attack more. My Sifu always told me Wing Chun is a defensive Art. You attack when you move forward you attack when you retreat. You attack attack attack ruthlessly with out ceasing be relentless.

I think this will make women like Wing Chun alot more. It will be what their looking for. They want an aggressive Art. This is what Wing Chun is?

This is true to an extent. But, the cost of buying a gun with all accessories, bullets, case, cleaning supplies, and paying for the gun classes you have to take to get licensed, and paying for the liscense would be the same as about 6-8 months fee to take our classes. lol!

Plus, many women have kids and don't want guns in the house. We're allowed to carry and conceal, but many people still in Texas just don't like guns. Their not a good thing to have in your life anyway you look at it.

Many women do neither. Neither gun or self-defense. They just depend on a boyfriend, or husband. I hear that alot. They just don't see an everyday need for training. That's why I try to emphasise the fun of it too, health, and cardio, competition, whatever gets them all jazzed up about learning. I'm thinking that's why the women's selfdefense classes aren't just filling up.

I've got to figure out how to market WC to the women in Texas. Good thing I'm going to school for business! lol!

It's all in the marketing and such in running these things, all in your pitch, in your presentation, and representations. People don't largely care if an art is superior, more practical, or effectient. They want the fun fad that EVERYONE'S doing. Until we can tap into that through mass media, your just not going to see alot of men or women in classes.

They've proven to me that women don't mind getting hit and slamed or treated rough in class, so, it's not because WC is a striking art. They've proven to me that the women are just a competitive as the men and want to compete in the cage and such, so, women would compete for us at the school.

But, unfortuanally, women have also shown me that they want to learn to fight, think, and be tough like a man. This mentality is not conducive to WC /WT training whether your a man or a woman. Just too much emphasis on brute strength. I've been marketing "Wing Chun, strong enough for a man, but made by a woman!" lol!

I thought it was catchy and cute, and to the point. But, it's the totally wrong slogan. I need, "wing Chun, learn how to fight like a man by fighting with men."

That's more like what women are wanting, from what I've seen.

Well, screw all. I'm about to chuck it off as a total loss. I wanted a women's class just for the women I don't even have in class! lol!
(we have one now, just as of this week! )

I'll focus on training my daughter when she's a bit older and she'll be awesome before she's old enough to really understand the implications of what she's training, the politics, the blah, blah. It'll just be the "ching chun" (that's how she says wing chun) that she runs around the living room singing everytime we play a video, the wing chun she already knows and loves. Marketing hasn't gotten ahold of her yet. lol!

 

[Si-Je]

I don't know! :wah:
Must have just taken him years. I'm getting impatient with that. And we don't have enough higher ranking students to do demos everywhere every month.

Well Thankyou Si-Je...lol...ha ha the romeo and juliet ha ha movie...i remember that now...Actually in my small opinion I think the who Romeo and JUliet storty was fanciful even in Shakesperes time thats why it was written and later became a play. Something for theather like are movies we watch on Television that depicts how life should be but not really true. Remember back in Shakesperes day no movies and DVD and Download. So Theathers,Plays, and stories had to be very very exaggerated and very very entertaining to hold the readers attention. Of course today it sounds over done. But many of our movies will sound over done in a hundred years.

But as for women don't throw a fit lol...ha ha...anyway why does Leung Ting have so many students. How did he make Wing Chun become so popular over in england? I mean really did he do it with out a media outlet how was he able to become so big?

 

[Si-Je]

Oh man, they either say it's to passive, or they say it's too aggressive. Can't seem to win either way.
They've always got excueses why they won't take it. Their just not interested in it out here in Texas. Too much flavor for TKD, MMA, JKD and BJJ. Any other alternative art has a hard time out here, whatever the art. Phillipino, Aikido, etc... Just not the status quo.
Will have to change that, or just be happy to stick to WC/WT tradition and just have a few students.

As for classes...make sure you take Marketing and Advertising classes...That will help you. As you said women want to be see as strong and tough like a man. Because if they are strong like a man they don't need a man to fight for them. But a woman being strong like a man her size won't help her fight a woman who is bigger than her. Thats where the epiphanny will come. When they realize hey I am the same size as my boyfriend and I can beat his ****. But ole Fat Suzy down the street wore me out...She kick my **** up and down the street. Why Si-Je?


Well now you can tell them about not using force but redirection. Some women need experience. The whole thing about using leverage and redirection won't sink in until they realize they need more than just strength.

Yes, Women and some Men are not interested in Martial Art for self defence. They want to be able to fight hard. An destroy their enemy. They want to be tough. They don't want to be afraid. They want their enemies to fear them you know. Thats why I share Wing Chun as self Offense. It is Martial or War System. It trains you for combat. Defense sounds more passive. I know my Sifu didn't teach me self defense. He taught me how to hurt and shut down a person. My Aikido training was about Self Defense. Thats probably why it never worked. Wing Chun answer is if they attack you attack their attack. If they retreat gain contact an attack. If they stop you attack some more. One Sifu once said don't defend too much attack more. My Sifu always told me Wing Chun is a defensive Art. You attack when you move forward you attack when you retreat. You attack attack attack ruthlessly with out ceasing be relentless.

I think this will make women like Wing Chun alot more. It will be what their looking for. They want an aggressive Art. This is what Wing Chun is?