Winning - Important or Irrelevant?

[Cyriacus]

While having zero interest in joining the food fight, I do feel obligated to step in and point out that this is just flat out wrong. Needles are stuck in arteries all the time. I generally do it at least 2-3 times per shift in the ER. Most commonly it's done to measure the dissolved gases in the blood, to evaluate respiration & perfusion. Often it's done to directly measure & provide real-time constant monitoring of blood pressure. And sometimes it's done because you really need blood for labs, and the veins are shot (i.e an IV drug abuser). While pulling them out without applying pressure afterwards will result in a mess, and a really ugly bruise, it is extremely unlikely to prove fatal. Except in Hollywood, of course.

There is NO debate here. Guns are far more lethal than even the biggest needle in our supply room.

Click-click-pow is absolutely the most lethal martial art.

Im still inclined to disagree with Guns being most Lethal; But thats a matter of Opinion. A Punch to the Head has been known to Kill, so has a Bullet. Both have failed in that regard as well.

Yogendra Singh Yadav.
http://www.cracked.com/article_17019_5-real-life-soldiers-who-make-rambo-look-like-*****.html
http://www.badassoftheweek.com/yadav.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yogendra_Singh_Yadav
http://www.bharat-rakshak.com/HEROISM/Yadav.html
I could find more Links;
Bottom line is: Dude Climbs Up Mountain, at one point being shot at. Dude Charges at Machine Gun Bunker, getting shot a couple of times. Dude Grenades Bunker. Dude Runs at next Bunker, Runs Inside, and Kills the Inhabitants with Hand to Hand Combat, albeit Two (One with an Thrown Ice Axe, and the other by means of Throat Cutting). He did a few other things in the process as well, but given that he survived all of this, and got a Medal, id say he did pretty well against the apparently Super-Lethal Machine Guns.

I do find your Counterpoint very interesting.
Have you ever had anyone with a Needle, as in, a Large Sewing Needle, put through their Jugular Vein/Carotid Artery? (Just Curious)

 

[shesulsa]

Heh - reading the entire thread, I was very convinced that it was far more about attitude than actual notches on the lipstick case. Silly me. *giggle*

 

[Carol]

Heh - reading the entire thread, I was very convinced that it was far more about attitude than actual notches on the lipstick case. Silly me. *giggle*

Gasp. You mean you don't teach that its all about the notches on the lipstick case? %-}i

 

[Dirty Dog]

Im still inclined to disagree with Guns being most Lethal; But thats a matter of Opinion. A Punch to the Head has been known to Kill, so has a Bullet. Both have failed in that regard as well.

Then you're a very silly person. Which do you think you're more likely to survive, and assuming you survive, which are you most likely to have any meaningful function following? The suggestion that guns are in any way shape or form less lethal than hands is just ludicrous. If you're still inclined to argue feel free. I won't waste my time arguing what should be painfully obvious.

I do find your Counterpoint very interesting.
Have you ever had anyone with a Needle, as in, a Large Sewing Needle, put through their Jugular Vein/Carotid Artery? (Just Curious)

Are you kidding? I put 16g (and larger, sometimes) in the external jugular on a regular basis. When we canulate the internal jugular vein, it's (at the very smallest) a triple lumen catheter that includes 2 18g and 1 20 g. That works out to about the size of a 10g needle. If you don't know how big that is, go look at 10g wire. Same size. For a trauma pt, it's an even bigger line, placed in either the internal jugular, the subclavian vein or ther femoral vein. Much much larger than a sewing needle. And do you know what one of the most common 'ooopsies' is for that procedure? Hitting the carotid (or subclavian or femoral, depending on the site...). Easy to do, if you look at the anatomy involved. And do you know how many people I've seen die from our poking a hole in their carotid? I can count the number on the fingers of one foot. Zero. Life is not a Ninja movie...

Your example doesn't say what sort of wounds the "Dude" received, but it's irrelevant. A gunshot wound will always, without exception, cause more damage than the same wound caused by a needle. Or a fist.
And for every example you can find of someone surviving, anybody who cares to can find 10,000 that died. If 1:10,000 is the sort of odds you like, then I'd very much like to play poker with you. I'll deal.

 

[Cyriacus]

Then you're a very silly person. Which do you think you're more likely to survive, and assuming you survive, which are you most likely to have any meaningful function following? The suggestion that guns are in any way shape or form less lethal than hands is just ludicrous. If you're still inclined to argue feel free. I won't waste my time arguing what should be painfully obvious.

So, your Gun, for Self Defense, is going to be Loaded and Cocked, and accessible within the Fraction of a Second it could take to be Struck? Im not Argueing - Im not saying Hands are more Lethal. Im saying PEOPLE are Lethal, and what those People do. And I dont believe a Gun makes you all powerful.
Why do you think Armed Police and Security Guards can get beaten up?And if that makes me silly, so be it.


Are you kidding? I put 16g (and larger, sometimes) in the external jugular on a regular basis. When we canulate the internal jugular vein, it's (at the very smallest) a triple lumen catheter that includes 2 18g and 1 20 g. That works out to about the size of a 10g needle. If you don't know how big that is, go look at 10g wire. Same size. For a trauma pt, it's an even bigger line, placed in either the internal jugular, the subclavian vein or ther femoral vein. Much much larger than a sewing needle. And do you know what one of the most common 'ooopsies' is for that procedure? Hitting the carotid (or subclavian or femoral, depending on the site...). Easy to do, if you look at the anatomy involved. And do you know how many people I've seen die from our poking a hole in their carotid? I can count the number on the fingers of one foot. Zero. Life is not a Ninja movie...

Wow, I didnt Read the Part where I said thatd Kill Someone. I was curious, silly. Nothing more.
Your example doesn't say what sort of wounds the "Dude" received, but it's irrelevant. A gunshot wound will always, without exception, cause more damage than the same wound caused by a needle. Or a fist.

Can One Bullet break Multiple Ribs at once? Assuming it hits straight on.

And for every example you can find of someone surviving, anybody who cares to can find 10,000 that died. If 1:10,000 is the sort of odds you like, then I'd very much like to play poker with you. I'll deal.

I Like Poker.
And sure, you can find such Statistics. But you can also find less cases of Firearms being used Overall. In Western Countries, anyway.
Another actual Question: Which is Higher in the US: The Rate of Gunshot Wounds, or the Rate of Any Other Wounds Inflicted by Another Person?

You seem to think im Argueing with you for some reason

 

[Chris Parker]

Training with swords, spears and the lot is still vauable.

So is training with firearms - the most lethal of the Martial Arts weapons we speak about, and easier to carry around, as well... but, to each his own.

Thats debatable - A Needle, if inserted directly into an Artery, is more than likely going to Kill.
A Bullet to the Head has been known on many occasions to be Unsuccessful.

So Yes.
To Each His Own.

That's not the debatable part, it's that Angel has again shown that he doesn't get what training with swords, spears etc is actually about... pity, because it's the answer to what he's asked about. Sadly, he cannot look past his own small take on what he thinks martial arts are about, which means he will never get what I and others are talking about. Oh, well.

 

[Cyriacus]

That's not the debatable part, it's that Angel has again shown that he doesn't get what training with swords, spears etc is actually about... pity, because it's the answer to what he's asked about. Sadly, he cannot look past his own small take on what he thinks martial arts are about, which means he will never get what I and others are talking about. Oh, well.

True - Im mostly trying to stay out of that particular Conversation, but I could have perhaps looked at it from that Perspective.

 

[Champ-Pain]

Thats debatable - A Needle, if inserted directly into an Artery, is more than likely going to Kill.
A Bullet to the Head has been known on many occasions to be Unsuccessful.

So Yes.
To Each His Own.

Would you be willing to go into battle, holding a needle vs. someone who's holdind a firearm? I sincerely doubt it.

 

[Cyriacus]

Would you be willing to go into battle, holding a needle vs. someone who's holdind a firearm? I sincerely doubt it.

Give Me more Details for this Theoretical Battle.
Because I actually would be.

And Im guessing You assume this Firearm is already Loaded, Cocked, and Drawn? Possibly Aimed as well.
Though thats Irrelevant.

 

[Jenna]

Would you be willing to go into battle, holding a needle vs. someone who's holdind a firearm? I sincerely doubt it.

Needle, no.

Teacup, or can key... Maybe lol

 

[Champ-Pain]

That's not the debatable part, it's that Angel has again shown that he doesn't get what training with swords, spears etc is actually about... pity, because it's the answer to what he's asked about. Sadly, he cannot look past his own small take on what he thinks martial arts are about, which means he will never get what I and others are talking about. Oh, well.

Your negative replies towards me are making me soooo sick... I'm going to sit on the toilet for while and smell up the place. I'll probably barf, as well. You have your opinions, views and positions. I have mine. They are obviously very far apart.

I'm starting to think that maybe you are obsessed with me... Just let it go, bro. I've seen what you look like - you're not my type. Bug off!

 

[Champ-Pain]

Give Me more Details for this Theoretical Battle.
Because I actually would be.

And Im guessing You assume this Firearm is already Loaded, Cocked, and Drawn? Possibly Aimed as well.
Though thats Irrelevant.

If it's my firearm we are talking about... you are 4 for 4.

 

[Cyriacus]

If it's my firearm we are talking about... you are 4 for 4.

I doubt you could Internationally Shoot your Firearm upon Me, and stand ANY Chance of Success, even if it is already Loaded, Cocked, Drawn, and Aimed.
But then, I doubt I could Kill You with a Needle from Australia.

So I Guess Were Square...

 

[Champ-Pain]

I doubt you could Internationally Shoot your Firearm upon Me, and stand ANY Chance of Success, even if it is already Loaded, Cocked, Drawn, and Aimed.
But then, I doubt I could Kill You with a Needle from Australia.

So I Guess Were Square...

What? You think I'd miss? LOL

 

[Champ-Pain]

Needle, no.

Teacup, or can key... Maybe lol

I will now lay down my firearm and start training to KILL with Teacups & Can Keys. I've seen the light.

 

[Cyriacus]

What? You think I'd miss? LOL

Do You think Id Miss with My Needle?
It could totally make it to Florida!

...Who it would Hit is another Story.
Much like Your Bullets. Im sure youd hit the Country, but that might be taken as a Declaration of War! Or it might hit some Desert Warrior, or something

I will now lay down my firearm and start training to KILL with Teacups & Can Keys. I've seen the light.

Finally.

 

[Champ-Pain]

...Who it would Hit is another Story. Im sure youd hit the Country, but that might be taken as a Declaration of War! Or it might hit some Desert Warrior, or something

Guess who else lives in Australia... maybe I'll get lucky.

 

[MJS]

Guys,

While I have posted in this thread, I'm not going to moderate it, however, just as a little reminder....lets try to keep the topic on track, k? If you dont want to read someones posts, use the ignore feature, but taking personal issues from thread to thread won't result in anything positive.

 

[Champ-Pain]

Guys,

While I have posted in this thread, I'm not going to moderate it, however, just as a little reminder....lets try to keep the topic on track, k? If you dont want to read someones posts, use the ignore feature, but taking personal issues from thread to thread won't result in anything positive.

I've tried to make peace and I've tried ignoring, as well, without success. Perhaps someone can ask Chris in a very nice way to just move on and leave me behind. My good will towards him has all but evaporated, at this point, unfortunately.

 

[MJS]

I've tried to make peace and I've tried ignoring, as well, without success. Perhaps someone can ask Chris in a very nice way to just move on and leave me behind. My good will towards him has all but evaporated, at this point, unfortunately.

I'm talking about using the ignore feature on the forum. Its on everyones profile. It will disable his posts from your view.

Anyways, lets try to return to the topic. If you have questions, shoot me a PM.