Wing Chun vs MMA

[Gerry Seymour]

In my style someone would get laughed off the mat if they said that someone who has never sparred could submit someone who sparred constantly. I find it interesting that other styles actually believe such a thing is possible.

This has been covered. You keep assuming the discussion is whether someone can beat someone else in competition if one spars and the doesn't. That has never been the discussion. Seld-defense training comes in many types and levels. Some can be had with zero sparring. Adding sparring likely raises the level of effectiveness, as does any number of other factors.


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[Hanzou]

This has been covered. You keep assuming the discussion is whether someone can beat someone else in competition if one spars and the doesn't. That has never been the discussion. Seld-defense training comes in many types and levels. Some can be had with zero sparring. Adding sparring likely raises the level of effectiveness, as does any number of other factors.

That comment had nothing to do with competition. If you've never rolled against someone in Bjj and applied a choke while they're trying to get you off of them, or moving their head towards the weak point of the choke in order to resist it, or while their trying to kick or punch you, then you've never really applied a choke before. Thus the chances of you being able to apply a choke in a self defense situation is pretty close to zero.

There is simply no other type of training that matches actual fighting. The closest we have to actual fighting is full contact sparring.

 

[Hanzou]

Firing a firearm at someone is as far away from simple as one can get. No matter how much you train, you will most likely freeze when needing to pull the trigger unless something else like fear can push you over any sane border.

Also shooting someone will probably destroy you mentally more than any martial artist ever could physically.

Choking someone to death or bashing their brains into the concrete until they die will destroy you mentally as well. The point is that performing either one of those acts is far more difficult than shooting someone.

 

[RTKDCMB]

That would depend on the striking art right? Not all of them just kick and punch air, and they're far better because of it.

There are virtually no martial arts that just kick and punch air, except maybe Strawmando.

So if someone is attacking you, you're not striking (beating) them in order to protect yourself? How else would you be able to stop an attacker getting physical with you? Mind games?

Again you are confusing fighting, sparring and self defense, they are related but they are not the same thing. The difference between incapacitating an attacker with a strike and beating them up is usually jail time. I do what is necessary, beating someone up is not always necessary.

Your entire martial art is based around punching and kicking someone. What other purpose is there for it to exist? Cut down all of the philosophy and Mr. Myagi mumbo-jumbo and the entire purpose behind TKD is to kick or punch the crap out of someone. We can even assign a self defense angle to it; Sport TKD is mutual agreed upon butt kicking, self defense TKD is when you don't agree and you kick their butt.


And sorry, but injuries come with the territory, if you're learning to fight that is.

There is much more to my style than just kicking and punching and Mr Myagi is no more relevant to a Korean style than the Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles. Yes injuries come with the territory but I see no reason to increase the risk of injury when I don't need to.

Aiming and firing a firearm is far more simple than learning and applying martial art.

It's called 'reasoning by analogy', look it up.

In my style someone would get laughed off the mat if they said that someone who has never sparred could submit someone who sparred constantly. I find it interesting that other styles actually believe such a thing is possible.

Who says that we don't spar in my martial art?

 

[Gerry Seymour]

That comment had nothing to do with competition. If you've never rolled against someone in Bjj and applied a choke while they're trying to get you off of them, or moving their head towards the weak point of the choke in order to resist it, or while their trying to kick or punch you, then you've never really applied a choke before. Thus the chances of you being able to apply a choke in a self defense situation is pretty close to zero.

There is simply no other type of training that matches actual fighting. The closest we have to actual fighting is full contact sparring.

And for grappling, I've never met a style that didn't do some sort of full-contact sparring (like rolling in BJJ).

 

[Hanzou]

There are virtually no martial arts that just kick and punch air, except maybe Strawmando.

So you're saying there's no Martial Arts out there that are almost entirely kata-based?

Again you are confusing fighting, sparring and self defense, they are related but they are not the same thing. The difference between incapacitating an attacker with a strike and beating them up is usually jail time. I do what is necessary, beating someone up is not always necessary.

And you're using semantics. In all cases you're using your hands and feet to cause physical punishment to another human being. A 'one punch KO in the street is the same physical act as a one punch KO in the gym or the ring. If you have to strike a person multiple times in multiple areas to "incapacitate" them, how is that not "beating them up"? The only thing different is the environment and the context in which you're doing the physical act.

Who says that we don't spar in my martial art?

I'm talking about full contact sparring, not pulling kicks and punches right before impact.

 

[Drose427]

So you're saying there's no Martial Arts out there that are almost entirely kata-based?





And you're using semantics. In all cases you're using your hands and feet to cause physical punishment to another human being. A 'one punch KO in the street is the same physical act as a one punch KO in the gym or the ring. If you have to strike a person multiple times in multiple areas to "incapacitate" them, how is that not "beating them up"? The only thing different is the environment and the context in which you're doing the physical act.



I'm talking about full contact sparring, not pulling kicks and punches right before impact.

Even Kata based still spar, and even in Boxing, MT, and MMA strikes are pulled before impact in sparring...

 

[Hanzou]

Even Kata based still spar..

Some don't.

and even in Boxing, MT, and MMA strikes are pulled before impact in sparring...

And they still practice plenty of full contact sparring to balance that out.

 

[Drose427]

Some don't.



And they still practice plenty of full contact sparring to balance that out.

No they dont,

Even professionals, very few regularly or even weekly spar at 100+% like its a bout for a million reasons

Several pros in Boxing and MMA have even spoke out about why you shouldnt regularly spar like its a bout.

It's typically exactly the same way most TMA's do, 60-80%

And you act like those tma schools are the majority, its quite the opposite.

 

[Paul_D]

And you're using semantics. In all cases you're using your hands and feet to cause physical punishment to another human being. A 'one punch KO in the street is the same physical act as a one punch KO in the gym or the ring. If you have to strike a person multiple times in multiple areas to "incapacitate" them, how is that not "beating them up"? The only thing different is the environment and the context in which you're doing the physical act.

No it's not semantics. Sparring, fighting and self defence are different things. This has been explained to you may times by many different people. So I am curious. How many people have to explain it before you before you realise their might be something you don't understand? 10, 20, 50, 100? Or does it not matter, will you simply never accept that any opinion other than your own can be correct?

 

[Gerry Seymour]

No it's not semantics. Sparring, fighting and self defence are different things. This has been explained to you may times by many different people. So I am curious. How many people have to explain it before you before you realise their might be something you don't understand? 10, 20, 50, 100? Or does it not matter, will you simply never accept that any opinion other than your own can be correct?

And plenty of people have "explained" that the word "fight" can be used different ways, including the physical altercation side of SD. How many people have to explain it before you realize there might be something you don't [agree with, but can still be correct]? 10, 20, 50, 100? Or does it not matter, will you simply never accept that any opinion other than your own can be correct?

 

[Hanzou]

No they don't,

Uh, yes they do. There's plenty of styles out there that have a "no-sparring" policy.

Even professionals, very few regularly or even weekly spar at 100+% like its a bout for a million reasons

Several pros in Boxing and MMA have even spoke out about why you shouldnt regularly spar like its a bout.

There's literally hundreds of videos of him sparring like that on the web. So if the best in the business regularly spars like that, what does that say about everyone else?

It's typically exactly the same way most TMA's do, 60-80%

And you act like those tma schools are the majority, its quite the opposite.

So you're saying that most TMAs spar like competitive fighters?

Not even close to reality.

 

[Drose427]

Uh, yes they do. There's plenty of styles out there that have a "no-sparring" policy.

There's literally hundreds of videos of him sparring like that on the web. So if the best in the business regularly spars like that, what does that say about everyone else?





So you're saying that most TMAs spar like competitive fighters?

Not even close to reality.

If you think thats match level fighting you've never seen a bout.....Theres a definite degree of control on both sides...The Champ is sparring like that becuse its the best way to spar. Not to far off from a bout and hard enough that you learn, but controlled enough your body will be able to recover so you can fight your bout.

Mayweather isnt a champ for just sparring with intensity...

Name one style that has an all around "No spar" policy. Just one Legitimate style.

And yes TMA's do, it's incredibly common to find schools spar that hard...

It doesnt take a competitive fighter to spar with contact nor was that my argument

 

[O'Malley]

Uh, yes they do. There's plenty of styles out there that have a "no-sparring" policy.

Which styles?

 

[drop bear]

If you think thats match level fighting you've never seen a bout.....Theres a definite degree of control on both sides...The Champ is sparring like that becuse its the best way to spar. Not to far off from a bout and hard enough that you learn, but controlled enough your body will be able to recover so you can fight your bout.

Mayweather isnt a champ for just sparring with intensity...

Name one style that has an all around "No spar" policy. Just one Legitimate style.

And yes TMA's do, it's incredibly common to find schools spar that hard...

It doesnt take a competitive fighter to spar with contact nor was that my argument

If they don't Spar are we classing them as not legitimate?

 

[Drose427]

If they don't Spar are we classing them as not legitimate?

No, but the only systems I can think of that dont spar are things like Yellow Bamboo and Tae Bo, which I wouldn't consider legitimate Martial Arts

 

[O'Malley]

I think that Drose was trying to avoid the "I know of ONE karate dojo where all they do is kata, thus karate doesn't spar" argument.

Edit: too slow.

 

[drop bear]

No, but the only systems I can think of that dont spar are things like Yellow Bamboo and Tae Bo, which I wouldn't consider legitimate Martial Arts

Sort of yours and O'Malleys post.

Yeah I assume you could separate them into systems rather than schools as such.

There was a poster who was vehemently anti sparring trying to find his post.
Edit.
Supposed to run a legitimate school.
How important is contact sparring in MA?

 

[Drose427]

Notice how only one or two fighters say they go 100% in regular sparring

And even a few of that minority admit it isnt the greatest idea

Controlled sparring doesnt mean no or light contact, you can still get knocked out.

 

[Hanzou]

If you think thats match level fighting you've never seen a bout.....Theres a definite degree of control on both sides...The Champ is sparring like that becuse its the best way to spar. Not to far off from a bout and hard enough that you learn, but controlled enough your body will be able to recover so you can fight your bout.

Considering that they're wearing protective gear, its clearly not "bout level", however it IS full contact sparring.

Mayweather isn't a champ for just sparring with intensity...

However he wouldn't be the champ if he didn't spar on a consistent basis.

Name one style that has an all around "No spar" policy. Just one Legitimate style.

An entire style? That would be hard to prove since someone would pop on and say that their particular school does sparring and complain that I'm being unfair to them and their system. However, there are styles of MA where sparring isn't common. Aikido, Ninjutsu, Internal Chinese MAs, and some classic JJ styles for example.

And yes TMA's do, it's incredibly common to find schools spar that hard...

Define sparring hard...

I wouldn't consider this sparring hard;