Wing chun guy gets dropped

[dudewingchun]

The guy who fights the wing chun person name is Raymon Beh. I thought he was pretty bad representation of MMA , he couldnt even get the wing chun guy down with the takedowns but he still pretty much annhillated the wing chun guy. I found a longer version. I think alot of WC people would see this and say the WC guy was rubbish and should of done this and that but if they got into that situation I think most would end up looking like him.

Raymond 'monk' Beh | Facebook

 

[Tired_Yeti]

The wing chun man had a problem in his thinking. Right from the start, he assumed a defensive posture and accepted the role of "receiver" of technique. This is clearly evident by all the circling around. One of the FIRST things my boxing coach told me was to never let them spin you in circles and walk around. Wherever they go, whichever direction, you step in front. Cut the ring in half for them and force a closing of space. Close the distance and corner them. Own the ring. The wing chun man should have cut the ring off. He didn't because he didn't have a plan of attack. He had only planned to receive and defend.
That is NOT the warrior spirit. The best defense is a good offense. He didn't have a warrior mentality.


"Re-stomp the groin"
Sent from my iPhone 6+ using Tapatalk

 

[SaulGoodman]

The guy who fights the wing chun person name is Raymon Beh. I thought he was pretty bad representation of MMA , he couldnt even get the wing chun guy down with the takedowns but he still pretty much annhillated the wing chun guy. I found a longer version. I think alot of WC people would see this and say the WC guy was rubbish and should of done this and that but if they got into that situation I think most would end up looking like him.

Raymond 'monk' Beh | Facebook

If he'd had some decent catch skills the Wc guy would have been slammed to the ground in very short order.

 

[guy b]

lol catch skills, did you drop in from 2003?

 

[Tony Dismukes]

^^^^^ Did you read the text right at the end of the video? It didn't seem to match what was in the video itself. When the MMA guy got in a good shot that rattled the Wing Tsun guy, the action stopped and he seemed to be apologizing. This looked like a friendly comparison of skills, and not a match where 50K was at stake and anything goes! And neither one looked like an "expert", let alone a "master."

C'mon. Next you're going to tell me that the WC guy wasn't a 9th degree black belt in WC and JKD, just because neither of those arts normally has a belt ranking system. I'm sure they wouldn't be allowed to make claims like that on the internet if it wasn't true.

 

[Buka]

I had this strange thought....

Do you remember the two youngins who were bad mouthing their old TKD style? One who looked like Howard on Big Bang and his cool buddy?

The OP vid......that looked to me who those two will grow up to be.

(I know, I'm awful)

 

[kehcorpz]

I like the MMA guy's

- circle around strategy.
- left and right hay-makers.

Instead of standing there as a "sitting duck", the WC guy should use straight line footwork to cut into the MMA guy's circular footwork, interrupt his circular footwork, and take the control back.

And does this stuff actually work?

I mean it's simple to say ah the guy should simply have done this and that.

Maybe wing chun theory only works in theory?

I'd really like to see wing chun masters who think they are good fight against other masters but they don't do this. I wonder why.

The students may think my teacher is sooo good and in reality he'd get his *** kicked if he actually fought against someone other than his students.

 

[kehcorpz]

And why isn't the wing chun attacking?

I thought that in wing chun you don't just stand around but you go into the enemy.

But he doesn't do this.

From what I've seen is that in real fights wing chun people don't even look like wing chun anymore.

You don't see any of the fancy techniques which they demonstrate when everything is static and when the "attacker" simply stands in front of them

and then moves his arm to hit them. This isn't really a fight scenario.

I'd really like to see a real fight where you can actually see somebody use wing chun stuff and not just the chain punches.

I even saw a video once where a wing chun master who used to compete in his past said that

when wing chun ppl fight in competitions you don't see much wing chun.


Look at how the wing chun guy "attacks" at 0:52. Where's the wing chun techniques? I see none of them. He just tried to hit him with punches.

I'm really starting to believe that all the fancy techniques don't work in real situations.

 

[kehcorpz]

I think alot of WC people would see this and say the WC guy was rubbish

Of course they would do that.

To me this seems a bit like a cult. The problem can NEVER actually be wing chun itself. If a wing chun guy gets destroyed by another fighter then his wing chun simply sucked. Problem solved.
Life can be so easy.

If actually making use of wing chun is sooooooo hard then it's useless. Then somebody who trained wing chun only for a few years and is considered a beginner basically has no chance in a fight cause his wing chun simply hasn't gotten out of sucking state yet.

I am really disillusioned with wing chun. I wish I hadn't wasted so much time watching wing chun videos.

I should better have watched silat videos or something else which is more promising in real fights.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

Maybe wing chun theory only works in theory?

To be able to maintain the forward pressure is the main WC theory. That means, if your opponent

- punches you, you run him down.
- kicks you, you run him down.
- does nothing, you still run him down.

In that clip, we just don't see this kind of "run down" spirit.

How to deal with a "circle running" opponent? You have to use straight line to cut in front of his circle. This is footwork strategy 101. It's OK to lose in "fighting". But it's not OK to lose in "strategy". If you don't know how to deal with a certain situation (such as how to interrupt a circle running opponent), that can be a very serious problem.

IMO, WC guys may have too much faith in their "chain punches" theory. In the real life, the left and right hay-makers (or hooks) will have much more knock down power than the straight punch does. When straight punch meets hay-maker, my money will always be on the hay-maker.

 

[drop bear]

To be able to maintain the forward pressure is the main WC theory. That means, if your opponent

- punches you, you run him down.
- kicks you, you run him down.
- does nothing, you still run him down.

In that clip, we just don't see this kind of "run down" spirit.

IMO, WC guys may have too much faith in their "chain punches" theory. In the real life, the left and right hay-makers (or hooks) will have much more knock down power than the straight punch does. When straight punch meets hay-maker, my money will always be on the hay-maker.

Yeah. I will let everyone in on a secret. Running them down only works if you are not eating punches.

 

[SaulGoodman]

If you train Wing Chun properly it works fine. It's HOW you train the art that matters. It has to be holistic in that forms/drills/chi Sao/sparring etc ALL need to be covered regularly. Too many Wc people are "theoretical fighters" and never glove up and get in the trenches and work. When you're in the mix and getting hit from all angles you soon start to realize that application of the art isn't always pretty but it DOES work. When I watch Wc guys sparring/fighting I can see pretty quickly wether they spar regularly or not.
How they react to getting hit, how they enter, how they cover, how they use footwork etc. an awful lot of the time it's very evident that they spend waay too much time playing chi Sao and not enough time sparring. Contact work/sparring experience is paramount in any art imo. Let's take the much venerated Muay Thai. If I spent a year going to a Thai class, learnt all the basics, hit pads but did no sparring whatsoever and then sparred a Wing Chun guy who had trained the same period who HAD sparred plenty, I'm pretty sure who will be more comfortable in that environment. However, it seems very common that the reverse is true and that whenever Wc people go up against Thai/kickboxing/boxing etc, it's a bad day at the office. Why? Because those arts encourage contact /aliveness from day 1. I've even heard that chi Sao is wing chuns "sparring", I've seen things on Wc club websites "come and learn to protect yourself in a non-contact protective environment", is that an oxymoron or what?
Regarding not seeing "fancy techniques" when Wc people are fighting/sparring, no your not going to see tan da/lap da combinations cleanly executed from an opponents jab. These are drills for timing,spatial awareness and line awareness. You don't take drills to battle, you take the attributes gained from those drills.

 

[dudewingchun]

Of course they would do that.

To me this seems a bit like a cult. The problem can NEVER actually be wing chun itself. If a wing chun guy gets destroyed by another fighter then his wing chun simply sucked. Problem solved.
Life can be so easy.

If actually making use of wing chun is sooooooo hard then it's useless. Then somebody who trained wing chun only for a few years and is considered a beginner basically has no chance in a fight cause his wing chun simply hasn't gotten out of sucking state yet.

I am really disillusioned with wing chun. I wish I hadn't wasted so much time watching wing chun videos.

I should better have watched silat videos or something else which is more promising in real fights.

Its not a problem thats only in Wing chun. This problem exists in most CMA/TMA including silat. A large majority of TMA/CMA practictioners cannot fight for **** and have a distorted sense of what the reality of a fight actually is. Wing chun right now has the worst reputation as a fighting art possible, everyone thinks it is a joke. It is sad as someone who loves Wing Chun

 

[SaulGoodman]

Its not a problem thats only in Wing chun. This problem exists in most CMA/TMA including silat. A large majority of TMA/CMA practictioners cannot fight for **** and have a distorted sense of what the reality of a fight actually is. Wing chun right now has the worst reputation as a fighting art possible, everyone thinks it is a joke. It is sad as someone who loves Wing Chun

Couldn't agree more. Our art is a beautiful, intelligent system of fighting that constantly rewards when you put in the effort.

 

[SaulGoodman]

Of course they would do that.

To me this seems a bit like a cult. The problem can NEVER actually be wing chun itself. If a wing chun guy gets destroyed by another fighter then his wing chun simply sucked. Problem solved.
Life can be so easy.

If actually making use of wing chun is sooooooo hard then it's useless. Then somebody who trained wing chun only for a few years and is considered a beginner basically has no chance in a fight cause his wing chun simply hasn't gotten out of sucking state yet.

I am really disillusioned with wing chun. I wish I hadn't wasted so much time watching wing chun videos.

I should better have watched silat videos or something else which is more promising in real fights.

So what practical experience do you have with Wing Chun?

 

[yak sao]

I am really disillusioned with wing chun. I wish I hadn't wasted so much time watching wing chun videos.

I should better have watched silat videos or something else which is more promising in real fights.

 

[yak sao]

I am really disillusioned with wing chun. I wish I hadn't wasted so much time watching wing chun videos.

I should better have watched silat videos or something else which is more promising in real fights.

You can watch a million videos but they will not teach you how to fight. The only way to learn a physical skill is to perform it....over and over and over.

If you ever decide to step away from the keyboard and actually put in some training, you are welcome to drop by and train with me. You will see first-hand, not from youtube, that WC works.

 

[SaulGoodman]

There's an entire thread somewhere on how to learn from video

 

[kehcorpz]

Regarding not seeing "fancy techniques" when Wc people are fighting/sparring, no your not going to see tan da/lap da combinations cleanly executed from an opponents jab. These are drills for timing,spatial awareness and line awareness. You don't take drills to battle, you take the attributes gained from those drills.

I don't understand that. Does this mean that these techniques don't work in fights? Then why even learn them?

This is like a soccer player who practices balancing the ball on his head all day long and then in a real match this is useless. :/

 

[SaulGoodman]

I don't understand that. Does this mean that these techniques don't work in fights? Then why even learn them?

This is like a soccer player who practices balancing the ball on his head all day long and then in a real match this is useless. :/

I don't want to start trading flawed analogies, why don't you make the effort like the majority of us on this forum and actually train rather than trying to find holes in videos/people's explanations. There are no shortcuts to getting good at any martial arts, all have the strengths and flaws, you seem to seek combat efficiency, I've already explained that if you train any art realistically you should get something functional from it. Wing Chun is an experiential,concept driven art that allows itself to be tailor made to the individual. It is not a monkey see, monkey do art where you pigeon hole each idea to a given task. You've come to the wrong art if that's what you're looking for and your inability to understand my explanations regarding not seeing posed techniques mid fight , seems to confirm this. Maybe systema or Krav Maga are the arts you should analyse by video next...,