As I said above, it's this kind of person who makes me realize that training in traditional martial arts can have real value. Of course, somebody like your sensei isn't going to settle for just any dojo. Do you know if his sensei was LE, military, etc.?
Why Traditional Karate Is Not Effective for Self-Defense
- Thread starter Ceicei
- Start date
Oni_Kadaki
Green Belt
Not to my knowledge, but I do know he tested what he had learned while apprehending people. Basically, he used perps as his own personal test dummies (I will not comment on the morality of this). As such, while the kata are unchanged from the original system, the self defense techniques he teaches are all Shorin Ryu Karate, but tempered by his real-world experience.
Headhunter
Senior Master
Hey at least he's only doing it on criminals
D
Deleted member 34973
Guest
The only scenerio that determines whether or not your skill is effective...is reality...not reality based scenerios or combat sports.
Karate does work (as long as its not sport) in real life situations. I know this, because I have used it many times, against just about every type of fighter out there. Boxers, wrestlers, street fighters (real ones, not windmill swingers going for the big hit) and various martial artist. No rules, no regulations and no safety protocols.
And, it directly saved my life many times. Yes, it was the old school way I chose, dangerous, unadvisable...but, I knew and still to this day, believe there is only one way to prove your skill, if you call yourself a fighter.
This myth that Karate doesn't work, is just words spoken, I would be confident in guessing, by a person who has never been in an actual real life scenerio. Or, was trained in sport arts.
But, like every new craze for a new way, they fade and Karate remains.
With that said, not everyone trains for that type of scenerio...there are various reasons, why people train. Some for the exercise, some for the competition, some for the philosophy.
I have learned over the years...that all of these reasons are valid amd shouldn't be frowned upon.
But, to say that combat arts are more effective than traditional arts, without actually testing it, outside the realm of safety protocals, Is simply asinine.
Really, I think competition has clouded the minds of martial artist so much these days, that its the norm to judge arts by competition effectiveness. When in reality, it can not be denied that it is enveloped by a safety net. As are reality based combat scenerios.
Its getting old...that much is certain.
Karate does work (as long as its not sport) in real life situations. I know this, because I have used it many times, against just about every type of fighter out there. Boxers, wrestlers, street fighters (real ones, not windmill swingers going for the big hit) and various martial artist. No rules, no regulations and no safety protocols.
And, it directly saved my life many times. Yes, it was the old school way I chose, dangerous, unadvisable...but, I knew and still to this day, believe there is only one way to prove your skill, if you call yourself a fighter.
This myth that Karate doesn't work, is just words spoken, I would be confident in guessing, by a person who has never been in an actual real life scenerio. Or, was trained in sport arts.
But, like every new craze for a new way, they fade and Karate remains.
With that said, not everyone trains for that type of scenerio...there are various reasons, why people train. Some for the exercise, some for the competition, some for the philosophy.
I have learned over the years...that all of these reasons are valid amd shouldn't be frowned upon.
But, to say that combat arts are more effective than traditional arts, without actually testing it, outside the realm of safety protocals, Is simply asinine.
Really, I think competition has clouded the minds of martial artist so much these days, that its the norm to judge arts by competition effectiveness. When in reality, it can not be denied that it is enveloped by a safety net. As are reality based combat scenerios.
Its getting old...that much is certain.
drop bear
Sr. Grandmaster
There is quite a few examples of combat sports being used successfully in self defence though.
I mean if we went just off that the evidence would still lean towards combat sports being more effective.
D
Deleted member 34973
Guest
There are quite a few examples of traditional arts as well, being shown to be effective.
But, it really depends on the scenerio and the threat involved. That and it depends on the individual using whatever system.
Combat Sport-was created for sport and entertainment. Hence the name Combat Sport.Therefore, by its very nature, and at its creation and inception it is incomplete as a real scenerio self-defense program.
That goes for sport Karate as well, in actual effective Karate, there are punches, kicks, knees, elbows, takedowns and grappling. Several of these were banned when sport karate became popular and due to that, we have seen over the last 30yrs...the degradation of Karate.
Sure, combat sport brought some of that back..but you can already see the decline of functional techniques...due to the limitations, that sports put on any art. And you can see, as well, the false sense of security, that Karateka's had in the late 80's and 90's...that led to the replacement of one sport art with another sport just reclassified as combat sport.
Really, in my opinion, watching these combat sports...looks like the workings of an inexperienced street fighter.
A barrage and flurry of punches and kicks, to try to get your opponent on the ground, so you can pound. But in reality...that doesn't take a whole lot of skill. Just about anyone can pull that off. Even people who have never fought a day in there life.
Another thing you will find...is videos of Combat Sport Artist, getting laid out by an average joe.
Yes, it really depends on the individual and the experience they have developed over the years in real scenerios.
There are many variables to deal with in reality...not so much in Combat Sport, Karate sport or any other sport art. The variables are not present
Don't get me wrong, I enjoy some sport arts..but I would never train in any sport art, for reality self-defense.
Of course all of this is based on my own personal experience. So, really its worth about two sh@ts and giggle.
But, it really depends on the scenerio and the threat involved. That and it depends on the individual using whatever system.
Combat Sport-was created for sport and entertainment. Hence the name Combat Sport.Therefore, by its very nature, and at its creation and inception it is incomplete as a real scenerio self-defense program.
That goes for sport Karate as well, in actual effective Karate, there are punches, kicks, knees, elbows, takedowns and grappling. Several of these were banned when sport karate became popular and due to that, we have seen over the last 30yrs...the degradation of Karate.
Sure, combat sport brought some of that back..but you can already see the decline of functional techniques...due to the limitations, that sports put on any art. And you can see, as well, the false sense of security, that Karateka's had in the late 80's and 90's...that led to the replacement of one sport art with another sport just reclassified as combat sport.
Really, in my opinion, watching these combat sports...looks like the workings of an inexperienced street fighter.
A barrage and flurry of punches and kicks, to try to get your opponent on the ground, so you can pound. But in reality...that doesn't take a whole lot of skill. Just about anyone can pull that off. Even people who have never fought a day in there life.
Another thing you will find...is videos of Combat Sport Artist, getting laid out by an average joe.
Yes, it really depends on the individual and the experience they have developed over the years in real scenerios.
There are many variables to deal with in reality...not so much in Combat Sport, Karate sport or any other sport art. The variables are not present
Don't get me wrong, I enjoy some sport arts..but I would never train in any sport art, for reality self-defense.
Of course all of this is based on my own personal experience. So, really its worth about two sh@ts and giggle.
drop bear
Sr. Grandmaster
Fair enough find us five real world examples of karate being used in a fight.
drop bear
Sr. Grandmaster
Here we go 5 real world examp,es of boxing effectively used in fights.
Criminal stupidity - the day two muggers tried to rob Jack Dempsey - Boxing Monthly
Female boxer fought off two hooded muggers and floored one with a right hook
Pictured: The battered and bruised face of a burglar who got on the wrong side of a 72-year-old former boxer | Daily Mail Online
Criminal stupidity - the day two muggers tried to rob Jack Dempsey - Boxing Monthly
Female boxer fought off two hooded muggers and floored one with a right hook
Pictured: The battered and bruised face of a burglar who got on the wrong side of a 72-year-old former boxer | Daily Mail Online
_Simon_
Senior Master
drop bear
Sr. Grandmaster
Ah but of course! I really think these three suffice...
I do want to learn the exploding head crane kick.
Headhunter
Senior Master
It has nothing to do with the the style. It's all about the person....do you really believe Jason Thacker from the ultImate fighter series 1 could beat any high level traditional style fighter. All this "oh combat sports work better or traditional works better" I can't believe all that rubbish is still going on that people are still that ignorant. Anything has the potential to work as long as it's trained properly and the person has a good skill level
Martial D
Senior Master
It's not that combat sports are necessarily better for fighting, its that their training is WAY better for fighting. It follows MMA produces better fighters.
Take a group of guys that peaks their cardio and other physical attributes, trains contact all day long to get used to actual attacks, and doesn't waste time on things that arent directly combat applicable.
Take another group of guys that do the literal opposite.
The mechanics of the style is rather secondary at that point.
Take a group of guys that peaks their cardio and other physical attributes, trains contact all day long to get used to actual attacks, and doesn't waste time on things that arent directly combat applicable.
Take another group of guys that do the literal opposite.
The mechanics of the style is rather secondary at that point.
JR 137
Grandmaster
Define karate being used in a fight. If I’m seeing punches coming at me and I’m moving out of the way and punching back, does that count? If a guy’s coming at me and I hit before he has a chance and KO him right there, does that count?
Or do I have to do some predetermined and complicated move that involves a backfist, reverse punch and jumping kick for it to count as karate?
A friend of mine who was a college basketball player asked if I could fight without using what I learned in karate. I asked him if he could play pickup basketball without using anything he learned in organized basketball at any level.
drop bear
Sr. Grandmaster
Five guys who new karate who stopped muggers or something. Like I did with boxing.
The point is if the evidence is street. Show evidence.
Has anybody noticed where things work there is evidence of it.
This is why if I wanted someone to believe a plane flies. I can show them a flying plane.
I don't have to convince people with clever rationalisation. Because that works against the idea that a great hunk of steel can fly.
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drop bear
Sr. Grandmaster
Absolutely. Training in fact has no effect at all.
Some people are naturally good and some are not.
Sport is a training method by the way.
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D
Deleted member 34973
Guest
D
Deleted member 34973
Guest
Never mind on the the tutorial....yeah sometimes I am ignorant with this tech
Ah but of course! I really think these three suffice...
That top one, the one with the two guys in black gis? I'm practicing that whole RiverDance combo move right now. It is sooo the balls.
I believe that's Gangnam Style, not Riverdance.
_Simon_
Senior Master
Hahaha! Awesome
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