Why Perfect Kata Is a Dead End

[isshinryuronin]

For those of us in TMA, kata is usually seen as an exercise in perfection - a striving for precision in angles, stance, position and execution. This develops a mastery of physical control over one's movement that can be consistent for every repetition of the kata. It takes years to accomplish, even for a single kata, but once achieved we feel that an ideal has been reached. This "ideal" kata allows us to pass belt tests and win medals in kata competition. So far, so good, until the point when it's not. There comes a time when this road to the perfect kata leads to a dead end.

The first problem is the setting of parameters by which kata is judged. Specific parameters are artificially set by an organization or have been passed down thru the decades, or just by a general acceptance of what looks good; "This is how the kata is supposed to be done." Many times, these parameters are at odds with effective bunkai, form over function being the sin of some modern TMA styles/schools (as commonly taught) and practically all competition. But this topic has already been much discussed and not the subject here.

The second problem is that the concept of the "ideal" or "right" way leads to the cessation of development. Afterall, once you've "got it," why fool with it anymore? You're doing it the way you're supposed to. And you keep doing it that way thru 2nd degree, 3rd, 4th, 5th degree........You've reached a dead end. If DNA was replicated exactly the same way every time, there would be no evolution. It's the tiny mutations that lead to new things. I'm not advocating changing the kata - not what's being done, just how.

Talented singers and stage actors will not perform exactly the same way every time. A nuanced gesture, a voice inflection, or adlibbed line will diverge from the written script from time to time. I think that as one progresses into the dan ranks (lower belts, stick to the script!) it's time to feel less constrained by what's considered to be "perfect" kata form. Relax and let those mutations occur: A difference in timing/rhythm, exact angle of foot or arm, the bend of the knee, the gestalt of your body movement. Like any mutation, some are bad and detract from combat ability, some are good and improve effectiveness, and some don't really matter but may just make you feel more "natural," allowing you to be more "you." Now you're becoming a martial artist.

 

[Badhabits]

Isn't the way you do kata, or anything else for that matter, supposed to change over time? Any little improvement is change. The concept of getting something Right (capital R) and not trying to improve it ought to be foreign to martial arts. If you're just repeating the same thing over and over without trying to improve it it's just a dead thing at that point, which is really antithesis to MA in general.
From a combat perspective, there's always someone better, someone who can kick your butt. So not trying to improve is like rolling over and just accepting that butt kicking without putting up a fight. And isn't trying to improve what produces those mutations you're talking about? Isn't that what keeps MA rolling forward.
I feel like your post was a really good way of saying we shouldn't strive to be one of the masters, but strive after what they were striving after

 

[JowGaWolf]

For those of us in TMA, kata is usually seen as an exercise in perfection - a striving for precision in angles, stance, position and execution. This develops a mastery of physical control over one's movement that can be consistent for every repetition of the kata. It takes years to accomplish, even for a single kata, but once achieved we feel that an ideal has been reached. This "ideal" kata allows us to pass belt tests and win medals in kata competition. So far, so good, until the point when it's not. There comes a time when this road to the perfect kata leads to a dead end.

The first problem is the setting of parameters by which kata is judged. Specific parameters are artificially set by an organization or have been passed down thru the decades, or just by a general acceptance of what looks good; "This is how the kata is supposed to be done." Many times, these parameters are at odds with effective bunkai, form over function being the sin of some modern TMA styles/schools (as commonly taught) and practically all competition. But this topic has already been much discussed and not the subject here.

The second problem is that the concept of the "ideal" or "right" way leads to the cessation of development. Afterall, once you've "got it," why fool with it anymore? You're doing it the way you're supposed to. And you keep doing it that way thru 2nd degree, 3rd, 4th, 5th degree........You've reached a dead end. If DNA was replicated exactly the same way every time, there would be no evolution. It's the tiny mutations that lead to new things. I'm not advocating changing the kata - not what's being done, just how.

Talented singers and stage actors will not perform exactly the same way every time. A nuanced gesture, a voice inflection, or adlibbed line will diverge from the written script from time to time. I think that as one progresses into the dan ranks (lower belts, stick to the script!) it's time to feel less constrained by what's considered to be "perfect" kata form. Relax and let those mutations occur: A difference in timing/rhythm, exact angle of foot or arm, the bend of the knee, the gestalt of your body movement. Like any mutation, some are bad and detract from combat ability, some are good and improve effectiveness, and some don't really matter but may just make you feel more "natural," allowing you to be more "you." Now you're becoming a martial artist.

Kata is born from application. If people fully understood the application the Kata would evolve too. I'll use myself as an example. In one of my forms, a technique requires that the user steps forward. But in application, that same technique requires that the user takes an angle. Now when I practice my form, I include taking the angle as part of the form, based on application.

But changes like this will only occur when the practitioner is using the technique in sparring. What has happened in the most recent past is that some people who don't spar or train to apply the techniques will make a change because it looks better and not actually know if that change is viable in a fight.

Form is born from application
Kata is born from application
Without application there can be no Kata /Form.

 

[Badhabits]

Kata is born from application. If people fully understood the application the Kata would evolve too. I'll use myself as an example. In one of my forms, a technique requires that the user steps forward. But in application, that same technique requires that the user takes an angle. Now when I practice my form, I include taking the angle as part of the form, based on application.

But changes like this will only occur when the practitioner is using the technique in sparring. What has happened in the most recent past is that some people who don't spar or train to apply the techniques will make a change because it looks better and not actually know if that change is viable in a fight.

Form is born from application
Kata is born from application
Without application there can be no Kata /Form.

I think that's pretty common in karate kata as well. Off the top of my head, I can think of several spots in karate kata where you reach a foot out to the right or left of you but in application you'd reach that foot straight towards the opponent to put it between or behind his feet/legs. There's probably multiple reasons it's shown differently in the kata. For karate at least I think it has a lot to do with making the kata more compact for practice in a smaller area.

 

[wab25]

The problem is that we don't understand what the kata are. Kata are tools for building things. Yes, you need to know the proper way to hold the saw, the proper motion to move the saw, the angle the saw needs to be to the wood, the amount of pressure that needs to be applied, the proper stance to efficiently use the saw.... This is kata. But the point of all this kata, is to learn to use the saw. But, why are we learning to use the saw in the first place? Its because we want to build something.

When we do kata contests, we are judging how well they hold the saw, how well they stand, how well they move the saw back and forth.... Instead, we should be judging what they built, using all the tools. (there are separate kata for hammers, screw drivers, sanders, routers.....) Knowing how to operate the individual tools in a demonstration on how to use them is one thing.... Building a house or boat or cabinet with the tools is an entirely different thing. Yes, we have to learn how to operate the tools... but once learning to operate them, we need to be free to use them to build something. The focus should be on what are we building with the tool, not so much on how well we demonstrate the proper stance to use the saw.

When learning a kata, you may initially understand it as block then punch, turn, block then punch. It will effect how you do those things in the kata. Later, you may understand that the block can be a parry or blend.... so now you can do the kata as blend punch, turn, blend punch. The kata should look and feel different, even though the movements are the same. You may then understand the punch, to be an entrance. So our kata becomes, blend enter, turn, blend enter. Then the turn becomes a throw. Blend enter, throw, blend enter. Now look at all the options you have.... Block enter, throw. Blend enter, turn blend punch. Blend punch, throw.... The more you understand about how the movements can be applied, the more you should play with the kata. Change the timing, change the intent of the movement, change the relationship to your opponent...... As you focus on doing different things with the movements, your kata should look different. When applying in sparring or a fight, you may need to make adjustments, just like you do when using tools.... you can't always put the board you are sawing on saw horses, at the exact right height, with room for you feet in the proper stance.... you make needed adjustments, but because you know the proper way to do things, you should be able to adapt. The way to get better at adapting.... is to build different things with your tools.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

making the kata more compact for practice in a smaller area.

When I trained my form in a small area, I use switching steps instead of forward step.

Instead of step right foot in front of left foot, I

- step right foot next to left foot.
- step back left foot.

This way I can switch sides in a small area.

 

[isshinryuronin]

In one of my forms, a technique requires that the user steps forward. But in application, that same technique requires that the user takes an angle.

This is a recognized situation in old Okinawan TMA and is in accordance with its principles. "Perform kata exactly, actual combat is another matter" (Itosu Anko).

Then why do something as the kata calls for at all? I think the answer is flexibility in application. In your example, stepping on an angle works for the application you're using, but it may render the technique unworkable against other variant applications. From the main trunk found in the kata one can adjust to a situation by taking a (left) angle, as you do. But the trunk move found in the kata can also allow taking a right angle for a slightly different application or situation. There may be an application/situation where stepping straight in works.

The point is, starting with the trunk may allow multiple branches to be taken. If you start with one of the branches, other options may be unavailable. This is why both phrases in Itosu's quote are important.

 

[_Simon_]

For those of us in TMA, kata is usually seen as an exercise in perfection - a striving for precision in angles, stance, position and execution. This develops a mastery of physical control over one's movement that can be consistent for every repetition of the kata. It takes years to accomplish, even for a single kata, but once achieved we feel that an ideal has been reached. This "ideal" kata allows us to pass belt tests and win medals in kata competition. So far, so good, until the point when it's not. There comes a time when this road to the perfect kata leads to a dead end.

The first problem is the setting of parameters by which kata is judged. Specific parameters are artificially set by an organization or have been passed down thru the decades, or just by a general acceptance of what looks good; "This is how the kata is supposed to be done." Many times, these parameters are at odds with effective bunkai, form over function being the sin of some modern TMA styles/schools (as commonly taught) and practically all competition. But this topic has already been much discussed and not the subject here.

The second problem is that the concept of the "ideal" or "right" way leads to the cessation of development. Afterall, once you've "got it," why fool with it anymore? You're doing it the way you're supposed to. And you keep doing it that way thru 2nd degree, 3rd, 4th, 5th degree........You've reached a dead end. If DNA was replicated exactly the same way every time, there would be no evolution. It's the tiny mutations that lead to new things. I'm not advocating changing the kata - not what's being done, just how.

Talented singers and stage actors will not perform exactly the same way every time. A nuanced gesture, a voice inflection, or adlibbed line will diverge from the written script from time to time. I think that as one progresses into the dan ranks (lower belts, stick to the script!) it's time to feel less constrained by what's considered to be "perfect" kata form. Relax and let those mutations occur: A difference in timing/rhythm, exact angle of foot or arm, the bend of the knee, the gestalt of your body movement. Like any mutation, some are bad and detract from combat ability, some are good and improve effectiveness, and some don't really matter but may just make you feel more "natural," allowing you to be more "you." Now you're becoming a martial artist.

Very well said! The gestalt of your body movement... I liked that.

Yeah the movement from perfection of form to the depth of understanding/experiencing is so important. I've always like thinking of kata as a "mould", "template" which you instil into you to let it naturally express through you.

Of course lower ranks absolutely should aim for technical proficiency, but to start thinking more and more on how to fully experience the kata, and how to evolve it and let it evolve you.

For example I'm learning Seisan kata at the moment. I have the general form, technique and shape down pretty okay, but I often stop and just practice certain little sections. The motion where you turn 180°, covering with the back hand and launching a teisho uchi with the front hand I really paused here. I felt a certain sensation within my frame, particularly with my shoulder blades, in that if I protracted my cover hand's shoulder blade and retracted the pulled back hand (the one that would deliver the teisho), I felt an amazing streeeetch sensation, like pulling back the string on a bow, and I utilised that stretch to "release" the teisho. Felt amazing and really generated a natural power there...

I explore stuff like that all the time. Getting quiet, listening to your body and exploring movements. It takes it beyond just reaching some perfection or external standard to a really fulfilling exploration and development of different nuances and dynamics within your own experience.

Like the difference between watching a video of someone on a roller-coaster, and actually BEING in a roller-coaster. Totally different.

And something i feel is important too, which is the quality of our attention. We often do our kata and AS we do it, in our minds we're almost watching it from some outside view looking at the shape as we do it. Like watching some second-hand mental image picture we've created, a distancing of ourselves from it to create some objective measure or reference point. But to really bring that attention within the body to that felt sensation and experience, you bring the kata to life and it naturally evolves through your attention and curiosity.

Then it becomes something else entirely.. not a fixed shape to adhere to but a form to throw your whole being into and explore and evolve yourself as a martial artist.

Read a nice comment the other day:

"At the end of a kata, the question to ask is not:

"Did I perform my kata well?"

but rather:

"Did I experience my kata fully?"

- The secrets of katas: a call to exploration
The so-called secrets or hidden movements within katas are often mentioned to spark your curiosity and encourage personal discovery. This pursuit resembles the search for the "philosopher’s stone."
It is up to you to decode this mysterious cipher. Once uncovered, this knowledge will no longer merely be known but acquired. For while a mathematical formula learned by heart may one day be forgotten, a truly assimilated understanding remains within us forever.
- An invitation to reflect
This second part of my reflections on katas ends here. Do not consider my words as an absolute truth but as an open door, intended to awaken your curiosity and inspire your own reflections."

 

[isshinryuronin]

And isn't trying to improve what produces those mutations you're talking about?

Yes, it can be "genetically engineered" by purposeful design. But a less structured way of encouraging mutations to occur is to provide a condusive environment. And they can also occur without outside influences, randomly on their own without "trying." Even identical twins have their own individual personalities. This same individuality should also be seen in the way two people do the identical kata (once the basic mechanics of it have been mastered).

 

[Hot Lunch]

When we continue to work on kata, I don't know that the intent was ever to strive for precise and exact movements. It would seem to me that kata competitions are the drive behind this. Your kata has to look better than those of your fellow competitors. Were aesthetics of any concern before the existence of kata competitions? I don't know.

But I do know this: if I perform kata with the focus on aesthetics, it often comes at the expense of figuring out and understanding bunkai.

If you look at the old videos of Hirokazu Kanazawa performing kata (which appear to be from the early 1970's), he would never make it to a WKF competition, let alone place in or win one. However, the conviction he has in his movements shows that he has a far greater understanding of the bunkai than what competitors show in WKF competitions. And that's what I want to show, rather than looking like a WKF champ.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

The point is, starting with the trunk may allow multiple branches to be taken. If you start with one of the branches, other options may be unavailable. This is why both phrases in Itosu's quote are important.

Your form can only cover one case at a time. For different case, you will need to train your form differently.

For example, the "diagonal strike" is the 1st SC form. When you train

- "knee seize", you will add in your other hand pulling.
- "front cut", you will add in leg hooking.

In other words, you should not train your form only in 1 way.

 

[isshinryuronin]

Were aesthetics of any concern before the existence of kata competitions?

Your post was right on. As to your question, I think the focus on aesthetics began several years before kata competition was a thing. The emphasis of karate as exercise and self-development rather than lethal self-defense began when it was introduced into the Japanese school system in the 1920's. By the mid 1930's karate found its way into university sports clubs. I don't know when kata competition began, but I'd guess it was about this time and grew from then on.

Few of the old Okinawan masters would be finalists in modern kata competition. But it's my understanding even the birthplace of original karate has not been immune from the "scourge of competition" as the sport aspect of the art is a big thing over there now, popular with the young. Traditional dojo that are not tournament oriented still exist there, embracing more of the original style with real bunkai though they have relatively fewer students.

 

[Prince_Alarming]

I'm forever bastardising my kata. If there's a solid object in my way, I'll take e.g. a 45 degree turn instead of a 90 deggree one, or shuffle backwards when I know I don't have room, or use a higher stance, all with footwork nicked from kickboxing.

 

[windwalker099]

Few of the old Okinawan masters would be finalists in modern kata competition. But it's my understanding even the birthplace of original karate has not been immune from the "scourge of competition"

It is interesting to note the difference between the focus on competition and the function of sets or forms, "Taolu" (套路), as training devices vs competitive events.

In Chinese Martial Arts (CMA), this focus was intentionally shifted by the People's Republic of China (PRC) with the development of modern "Wushu" (武术) as a contemporary sport from 1949 to the present.

This shift has had both positive and negative effects on traditional practices. On one hand, it has preserved them through competitive formats, accessible and enjoyable to the public. On the other hand, detrimental to the traditional focus on practical application.

In one sense, this aligns with the tradition of making the art available for those who seek it, while making it largely unavailable to "tourists" due to teachers not actually having the skill sets to teach this aspect, or the specific focus of the practice.

Some arts, like "taiji," have had their focus changed so much that they are no longer considered functional by some as combative arts, are not being taught with that intention, with many practitioners not looking for this aspect.

Those that are, often unable to find it.

In CMA, what is most often showcased is the performance aspect of the art, rather than its practical application. Those considered to have a high degree of skill, often judged by their performance rather than their ability to apply it.

A few modern masters, aware of this disparity, emphasize application over performance, some even adapting and changing their CMA to fit into modern-day fighting event venues.

Other masters, keeping their traditions, often very low key, in plain sight.
"Hidden Dragon, Crouching Tiger"
(卧虎藏龙, Wò Hǔ Cáng Lóng).

 

[JowGaWolf]

Your form can only cover one case at a time. For different case, you will need to train your form differently.

For example, the "diagonal strike" is the 1st SC form. When you train

- "knee seize", you will add in your other hand pulling.
- "front cut", you will add in leg hooking.

In other words, you should not train your form only in 1 way.

 

[JowGaWolf]

In other words, you should not train your form only in 1 way.

I noticed that the first step was at an angle but every step after that was just feet moving forward. The first step is the correct footwork for the technique they are drilling. Their second step is incorrect for application, but it is the step that works the best for doing a technique back-to-back-to back. The drill trains left side and right-side technique movement but not technique application. It's similar to a punching drill Jow Ga has but it doesn't train application. It trains movement of the technique. To train application one would need to start from fighting stance -> escape /success follow up -> reset - fighting stance -> used technique with opposite side - Repeat process.

 

[Krisxylove]

I explore stuff like that all the time. Getting quiet, listening to your body and exploring movements. It takes it beyond just reaching some perfection or external standard to a really fulfilling exploration and development of different nuances and dynamics within your own experience.

This

But to really bring that attention within the body to that felt sensation and experience, you bring the kata to life and it naturally evolves through your attention and curiosity.

Then it becomes something else entirely.. not a fixed shape to adhere to but a form to throw your whole being into and explore and evolve yourself as a martial artist.

This

 

[skribs]

For those of us in TMA, kata is usually seen as an exercise in perfection - a striving for precision in angles, stance, position and execution. This develops a mastery of physical control over one's movement that can be consistent for every repetition of the kata. It takes years to accomplish, even for a single kata, but once achieved we feel that an ideal has been reached. This "ideal" kata allows us to pass belt tests and win medals in kata competition. So far, so good, until the point when it's not. There comes a time when this road to the perfect kata leads to a dead end.

The first problem is the setting of parameters by which kata is judged. Specific parameters are artificially set by an organization or have been passed down thru the decades, or just by a general acceptance of what looks good; "This is how the kata is supposed to be done." Many times, these parameters are at odds with effective bunkai, form over function being the sin of some modern TMA styles/schools (as commonly taught) and practically all competition. But this topic has already been much discussed and not the subject here.

The second problem is that the concept of the "ideal" or "right" way leads to the cessation of development. Afterall, once you've "got it," why fool with it anymore? You're doing it the way you're supposed to. And you keep doing it that way thru 2nd degree, 3rd, 4th, 5th degree........You've reached a dead end. If DNA was replicated exactly the same way every time, there would be no evolution. It's the tiny mutations that lead to new things. I'm not advocating changing the kata - not what's being done, just how.

I would argue that very, very few people will get to the point where they have a "perfect" TMA kata. This is like saying it's virtually pointless earning money after becoming a millionaire.

But it also doesn't necessarily have to be more than that. It's a goal that, once achieved, you can move on to other things. Or perfect new kata. Or maintain the ones you have.

Talented singers and stage actors will not perform exactly the same way every time. A nuanced gesture, a voice inflection, or adlibbed line will diverge from the written script from time to time. I think that as one progresses into the dan ranks (lower belts, stick to the script!) it's time to feel less constrained by what's considered to be "perfect" kata form. Relax and let those mutations occur: A difference in timing/rhythm, exact angle of foot or arm, the bend of the knee, the gestalt of your body movement. Like any mutation, some are bad and detract from combat ability, some are good and improve effectiveness, and some don't really matter but may just make you feel more "natural," allowing you to be more "you." Now you're becoming a martial artist.

Depends on what you're performing. For example, if you're playing Bach, you're supposed to play it exact every time.

 

[isshinryuronin]

if you're playing Bach, you're supposed to play it exact every time.

I wonder how Bach would feel about this (I really have no idea). Perhaps this expectation only evolved over time.

Dolly Parton wrote I Will Always Love You and sang it tenderly, personal and intimate (though she rarely sang it the same way twice as her mood led her - and I think this can be applied to kata for the advanced practitioner). Whitney Houston's version was much more dynamic, highlighting her superior vocal skills. She didn't change the words, meaning or melody, but the song was nevertheless transformed, emotionally different. You can say they have different bunkai. Both are great to listen to. Most of the time (with some exceptions such as Jimi Hendix's version of Bob Dylan's All Along the Watchtower) the remake falls far short of the original, IMO.

TMA is different as changes in delivery can have a huge effect on its (self-defense) effectiveness resulting in great harm. So much care must be given to any changes one makes in executing kata. This is of little consequence in competition as long as its appearance conforms with the judges' expectation.

Not trying to make any specific point here other than variations in kata can reflect one's inner self or go to the extent of changing its self-defense effectiveness. A degree of expertness is needed to know the difference.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

So much care must be given to any changes one makes in executing kata.

You don't want to be just a copy machine. Repeating Shakespeare's play 10,000 times won't make you a play writer. If you want to earn your PhD degree, you have to publish your own research paper.

No matter how good you are in DOS, there are some functions in WINDOW that DOS just can't do. Today, I don't believe anybody want to go back to DOS.