Why don't women compete with men?

[tunetigress]

Yeah! What SHE said! Nightingale I hadn't thought of the issue quite that way before, but I agree completely. I've never enjoyed sparring much, but then I've never tried sparring with women, none being available but my 10 year old daughter. Maybe I'd be more into it if I'd had the chance to train with someone with whom I was more evenly matched. When you're my age, when it hurts too much, you stop! LOL! :shrug:

 

[sweeper]

as far as the bodyfat precentage thing, if you have an wqual amount of muscle to your opponant but a little more body fat, you actualy might have an advantage as you can hit harder.

 

[Nightingale]

how can more FAT make you hit harder? more muscle, yes, but fat just slows you down, because its more weight that your muscle has to move.

 

[sweeper]

because in a full strength punch your muscles will be able to move the extra mass and your total force gennerated will be greater.

there of course is a cut off point. if you are realy over weight it will hinder you more. But First of all most people when punching won't gennerate more force by additional speed than by additional mass because they can't recruit their muscle fibers fast enough, second you don't keep much body fat on your arms and legs, most of it is close to your torso, so it shouldn't inhibit your hand/foot speed, third when motovating the weight is nessisary like in a power punch where you get your body weight behind a blow you are using your legs to shift your weight, your legs are much stronger so a small weight diffrence in total body weight affects your legs relativly less than your arms, also you will be able to gennerate more power (relative to a lighter person) due to the fact that your antgonist muscle tension would be less because your muscles contraction speed would be slower (so the total force your leg gennerates is actualy greater).

Bottom line is in a high speed low commitment punch like a jab extra weight won't slow you down because you don't care that weight on your arm and that kind of punch is mostly tricept. In a powerfull punch like a cross or hook the weight will slow you down but since the technique is already a much slower technique you are only going to land it with timming and you will have extra power in it.

 

[Kiwi]

So far this discussion seems to be based on the assumption that the competition will involve empty hand striking. Pick up some rubber knives and do some knife sparring. Even the smallest woman can be a scary opponent with the right tools and a good head on her shoulders.

Kiwi

 

[Nightingale]

I think the discussion started out as a question specific to competition sparring divisions, no weapons allowed...

you are very right though... give someone the right tools and they can do anything...

 

[arnisador]

Originally posted by Kiwi

Pick up some rubber knives and do some knife sparring. Even the smallest woman can be a scary opponent with the right tools and a good head on her shoulders.

Before I studied the FMA, when I was a karateka, I thought I could defend myself against the knife. Now that I know a bit about using the knife I don't have confidence that I could take out a novice without getting cut too.

Much more discussion of this in the Knife Arts forum.

 

[GouRonin]

There is an old saying, "God created all men but Samual Colt made them all equals."
:zap: :shock: :shotgun: :rockets: :ripper: :lasma: :machgunr: :goop::ak47: :shooter:

 

[Nightingale]

hehe...

My answering machine message is Clint Eastwood saying "There ain't nobody here but me, and Smith, and Wesson." my brother decided that since I live alone, I needed an intimidating answering machine message.

 

[Monkey King]

The percentage of women that have excellent skill is fairly high. The percentage of women that have excellent skill and strength is quite low.

This has nothing to do with body fat. Men are naturally stronger in their upper body than women.

Same reason why women don't fight in military combat.

The percentage of women that can actually endure a full contact match with a man would also have to be very low.

Now point competition is a different story. There, the playing field would be even. But full contact...I don't think so.

Don't get me wrong, I'm sure we all know some woman who can hold her own, but that's one in how many?

 

[arnisador]

Originally posted by Monkey King

Same reason why women don't fight in military combat.

This varies by country and possibly by armed service within the country.

My recollection is that one argument against having women in combat is that it's bloodier: There were fewer surrednders to mixed-gender forces, attributed to men being unwilling to surrender to women.

In hand-to-hand combat the strength issue obviously matters. However, it matters more in a boxing-type scenario than a self-defense scenario where the defender may be able to surprise her opponent who thinks her unable to defend herself.

 

[sweeper]

I would agree monkey king, I'm not saying there should be no female division I'm just saying if a woman wants to fight in the mens division she should be alowed to do it. in an all out fight, armed or unarmed if a woman is the same weight as a man I think she has a good chance of winning.

but I disagree with the combat thing. I think if a woman passes all the same tests/training a man does than she should see combat like a man would.

 

[Nightingale]

what I was saying about muscle mass is that it makes weight classifications unfair, because if you look at a man and woman that weigh the same, the man will have about 10-15% more muscle than the woman. That is why men are usually stronger than women. They have more muscle and less fat. That's why the men were the hunters and the women were the gatherers. LOL.

 

[sweeper]

yeah but it's not that hard to throw in a body fat test with the physical. (ok so it would be inda hard but not anywhere near imposable)

but also just cause women have less muscle doesn't mean they can't compete, I have seen plenty of over weight male boxers that still win.. I guess it would depend on the sport also. but if weight classes took into account body fat than I think a co-ed league would be ok.

 

[Monkey King]

Hunters and Gatherers:

There have been a lot of women through history that have singlehandedly changed the way of the world. But again, they have been the exception and a small minority.

If a woman thinks she can handle a K-1, UFC, Vale Tudo, or Sobake challenge, by all means, more power to her. I'll even be in her corner.

In street self defense, the element of surprise and skill are always a factor, for whomever is trying to defend themselves. In order for self defence to effective, a practitioner needs to practice actually hitting something or someone. I feel this is important. This goes for males as well as females.

Women in Combat:

This issue only partially involves a woman's physical ability. Again, a woman that can equally, (very important word) measure up to the rigorous physical and mental taxation is an exception, but not common among the general populace of females.

BUT, the Israelis tried it, and acknowledge now that it was a mistake. Not because women couldn't handle it, but MOSTLY because people couldn't stand to see their daughters come home in a box.

In most cultures, including ours, women are not expendable.

I am 45 years old. Out of all the physically fit women I've known, only one could have done what I did in the Marine Corps.

Again, the exception.

Sorry, I don't mean to change the topic of this thread.

 

[Nightingale]

disclaimer: I'm not a guy, so I can't say how the male mind works. If I knew how the male mind works, I'd write a book, make millions, and retire at age 24. The below scenario is probably not always the case, but it is an argument the government has put forth regarding women in combat:

another reason women aren't in combat is because of the way the men react to having them around. Its distracting. Instead of thinking of fighting a war, the men tend to think about keeping the women out of the line of fire. This situation doesn't occur in non-life threatening situations, such as control operations or whatever, or even when it comes to planes dropping bombs, but for some reason when the women are in immediate danger and in the line of sight of the men, the men think about protecting them instead of covering their own asses.


dunno, guys, what do you think?

 

[Monkey King]

I would agree. At least from my perspective. It's the way we were raised, I guess.

 

[Rich Parsons]

Originally posted by nightingale8472

disclaimer: I'm not a guy, so I can't say how the male mind works. If I knew how the male mind works, I'd write a book, make millions, and retire at age 24. The below scenario is probably not always the case, but it is an argument the government has put forth regarding women in combat:

another reason women aren't in combat is because of the way the men react to having them around. Its distracting. Instead of thinking of fighting a war, the men tend to think about keeping the women out of the line of fire. This situation doesn't occur in non-life threatening situations, such as control operations or whatever, or even when it comes to planes dropping bombs, but for some reason when the women are in immediate danger and in the line of sight of the men, the men think about protecting them instead of covering their own asses.


dunno, guys, what do you think?

Hi nightingale8472,

On TLC I saw a show that discussed the difference
between Men and Women. One of the things that
was discussed was the instinct in men to protect
children and women. The conjecture was that
women's voices stay in the higher octaves, in the
range of that of children's voices, to help men
treat women instinctively as something that needs
assistance immediately.

Now, never being in life or death combat with
women present, I cannot testify to this myself.

Best Regards

Rich

 

[sweeper]

interesting.. however throughout history there have been cultures in wich women would fight along side men...

 

[Rich Parsons]

Originally posted by sweeper

interesting.. however throughout history there have been cultures in wich women would fight along side men...

Hi Sweeper,

I did say I say it on TLC, which is TV.
This does nto mean it is the correct answer
nor the only answer, only as you put it,
an interesting piece of information.

I agree the some cultures have men and women
fighting along each other. In some, the men
woudl fight, but the women owned everything.
An unmarried man had his mother hold items for
him until her was married.

Many different cultures many different answers.

Thanks

Rich