Dear vincefuess,
Does you wife have any single friends like her?
I got one thing to say
You Go Girl. I assumed she is well now, by the
use of present tense.
Have a nice day.
Rich
:asian:
Why don't women compete with men?
- Thread starter Carbon
- Start date
Dear vincefuess,
Does you wife have any single friends like her?
I got one thing to say
You Go Girl. I assumed she is well now, by the
use of present tense.
Have a nice day.
Rich
:asian:
V
vincefuess
Guest
She just whupped my butt this morning!! (and I liked it 
)
I'll ask her about her friends, she knows a few that have trouble getting dates because they are strong and independent and expect to be treated as such. Apparantly these qualities are drawbacks for gals trying to meet guys, though I have always been attracted to women who were strong and independent, especially when the issue is establishing a partner for life. There's no room in my life for little bo peep. :rofl:
)I'll ask her about her friends, she knows a few that have trouble getting dates because they are strong and independent and expect to be treated as such. Apparantly these qualities are drawbacks for gals trying to meet guys, though I have always been attracted to women who were strong and independent, especially when the issue is establishing a partner for life. There's no room in my life for little bo peep. :rofl:
Originally posted by vincefuess
She just whupped my butt this morning!! (and I liked it
I'll ask her about her friends, she knows a few that have trouble getting dates because they are strong and independent and expect to be treated as such. Apparently these qualities are drawbacks for gals trying to meet guys, though I have always been attracted to women who were strong and independent, especially when the issue is establishing a partner for life. There's no room in my life for little bo peep. :rofl:
I am glad she is well and kicking your Buttas you put it.
As for strong women, I like a woman who is fit and
can handle her own. I have a very nice friend,
she is a Minister, in the Navy Reserve as a
Chaplain and she works out regularly, etc., ... .
One might ask why I am not with her. We both
are good friend and realize not right for the
other one for long term.
Have fun in life and thanks
Rich
T
theneuhauser
Guest
well, it looks like i got back to this a little bit later than i should have but.....
my problems with male/female sparring were not intended to insult any of you. it seems that it may have struck a chord in for those of you that believe that it is a necessary element considering today's violent crimes against women.
i did not state my position on that in my previous post, so i think i should clarify that...
rape and assault are some of the most heinous human crimes anyone can think of, they leave physical and mental scars and even kill. from first person accounts, i know that victims may have altered their own destiny if better facilitated to protect themselves, women, and men alike.
on that note, those of you that say that women should spar with men for the exposure to physical combat are somewhat correct.
however, this post began with the question "why dont women compete with men?" not, should women know how to defend themselves? of course they should. and when i say that i personally would not spar or compete against a female opponent i offered one example of why people dont. call it unrealistic, or "chivalrous" or whatever you want.
back to assault against women. i am not an authority by any means, however, i do know that boxing is a very small part of what someone has to know in order to minimize the chances of being assaulted, raped, mugged, molested, etc. visit a publicly certified womens self defense class and you probably wont see boxing. you will probably see discussion-about self confidence, environment, safe practices, etc.
there are also postures one would want to take against assailants with guns and knives of which some self defense can be aqcuired. most of us know that. even in a wrestling situation there are techniques that work well in assisting a victim to escape harm.
that said, i reiterate that boxing is a small part of the equation, and if we apply that question to the current topic of sports and practice sparring, than one should see where the great difference exists.
last, i would like to say again that there are some of us that do not SPAR or COMPETE with women in aggressive training and never will. why not? no reason, just because.
:asian:
my problems with male/female sparring were not intended to insult any of you. it seems that it may have struck a chord in for those of you that believe that it is a necessary element considering today's violent crimes against women.
i did not state my position on that in my previous post, so i think i should clarify that...
rape and assault are some of the most heinous human crimes anyone can think of, they leave physical and mental scars and even kill. from first person accounts, i know that victims may have altered their own destiny if better facilitated to protect themselves, women, and men alike.
on that note, those of you that say that women should spar with men for the exposure to physical combat are somewhat correct.
however, this post began with the question "why dont women compete with men?" not, should women know how to defend themselves? of course they should. and when i say that i personally would not spar or compete against a female opponent i offered one example of why people dont. call it unrealistic, or "chivalrous" or whatever you want.
back to assault against women. i am not an authority by any means, however, i do know that boxing is a very small part of what someone has to know in order to minimize the chances of being assaulted, raped, mugged, molested, etc. visit a publicly certified womens self defense class and you probably wont see boxing. you will probably see discussion-about self confidence, environment, safe practices, etc.
there are also postures one would want to take against assailants with guns and knives of which some self defense can be aqcuired. most of us know that. even in a wrestling situation there are techniques that work well in assisting a victim to escape harm.
that said, i reiterate that boxing is a small part of the equation, and if we apply that question to the current topic of sports and practice sparring, than one should see where the great difference exists.
last, i would like to say again that there are some of us that do not SPAR or COMPETE with women in aggressive training and never will. why not? no reason, just because.
:asian:
Damian Mavis
Master Black Belt
I wouldn't spar against a woman in competition either.
Damian Mavis
Honour TKD
Damian Mavis
Honour TKD
karatekid1975
Master Black Belt
Why not? Spar Vinces wife!
- Thread Starter
- #67
I disagree when you say full contact, because we all know that its not truely "FULL" contact.
I know your thinking, well we can't have "FULL" contact or people would get hurt. Yes this is true, but in a real fight I would question a women's ability to take a hit.
I mean you've seen women boxers, and it just seems that their skills are lacking when you compare them to men's.
I don't know what it is, its just men are built to be physical, and a women in a real "FULL" contact match would probably go out hurting.
I'm not saying that the women can't do damage, thats not the point but if a guy walked up behind her, and punched her in the side of the face, well... is she going to beable to take the hit and properly defend herself?
This goes for everyone, I know if a 250 lb. grown man walked up behind me and hit me in the face I would be hurting pretty bad and be so disoriented that it would be hard for me to react.
Now you take this and put it with a fragile women, yes not all women are fragile, but the ones rapist target are, so do you think all the training in the world could protect her?
I know your thinking, well we can't have "FULL" contact or people would get hurt. Yes this is true, but in a real fight I would question a women's ability to take a hit.
I mean you've seen women boxers, and it just seems that their skills are lacking when you compare them to men's.
I don't know what it is, its just men are built to be physical, and a women in a real "FULL" contact match would probably go out hurting.
I'm not saying that the women can't do damage, thats not the point but if a guy walked up behind her, and punched her in the side of the face, well... is she going to beable to take the hit and properly defend herself?
This goes for everyone, I know if a 250 lb. grown man walked up behind me and hit me in the face I would be hurting pretty bad and be so disoriented that it would be hard for me to react.
Now you take this and put it with a fragile women, yes not all women are fragile, but the ones rapist target are, so do you think all the training in the world could protect her?
G
girlychuks
Guest
No. That's where my full support for Paxton Quigley comes in. And my activism for truth in sentencing, as well as public access to sexual offender registries.
And let's not forget a very important aspect of rape/ molestation- the vast majority of these crimes are committed by someone the victim KNOWS. In a lot of cases, the simple act of a scream, a slap, is enough to let the attacker know she means business.
Carbon,
You have the full right to disagree and state so
here. This is an open forum. Now I would like
to disagree with you a little also.
Yes, "FULL" contact can be misleading and yes
women in general have a smaller frame then men.
So, I am putting words in your mouth, and feel
free to disagree. Are you saying that women
should just stay out of martial arts and not
train at all since they have no hope of ever
winning or beating a bigger opponent? Should
they just lock themselves at home and only
come out in the company of some male family
member that can defend them?
I would have to say no to these questions.
Women can train for self-defense at what level
they feel comfortable. Yes the real bad guys
are mean and big. Yet, women who can put up
a 7 second fight stand a much larger chance of
survival. People might notice what is going on
and react to help.
Once again Carbon nothing personal, I just do
not want someone to take your comment, and then
feel like there is nothing they can do and then
feel intimidated and actual make themselves a
more likely target. The animal / attacker will
sense the fear in their body language of the
victim /prey.
Just my thoughts
Rich
S
sweeper
Guest
Don't have any stats to back it up but it's my undrstanding that not all, but alot of attacks (in genneral, but deppending on intent... rape and muggings included) can be prevented/deffended against by basicly scaring the person off. You don't have to train like it's an all out fight to the death and the only way you are gona get out is over that big 250 pound guys un-concious body.. that's worse case senario, like 1 in 50 or 1 in 100. What you have to do is make your attacker think it's not worth it, just not giving in, making alot of noise, and hurting them could be enough, you don't have to go 15 rounds in the ring with mike tyson to deffend against your average attack. Add in ellements of prevention (like situational awareness) and you can reduce the amount of potential attacks and realy get your chances of having to fight to the bitter end down.
that being said if a woman realy wants to deffend her self.. use a weapon. I don't care what the laws are where you live there is always something that can be used as a weapon. a pen or pencil, a knife, a gun.. a hand full of change to huck in the person's face.. whatever, train to take maximum advantage of environment and to use some kind of wepon (what ever is the most leathal available than work down).
Wow... looks like I managed to make yet another rambaling rant that now looks like gibberish.. oh well
that being said if a woman realy wants to deffend her self.. use a weapon. I don't care what the laws are where you live there is always something that can be used as a weapon. a pen or pencil, a knife, a gun.. a hand full of change to huck in the person's face.. whatever, train to take maximum advantage of environment and to use some kind of wepon (what ever is the most leathal available than work down).
Wow... looks like I managed to make yet another rambaling rant that now looks like gibberish.. oh well
T
tunetigress
Guest
Awwww Carbon, what a bummer! That happens to me a lot too. It seems like the longer and more brilliant my posts get, the more likely I am to lose the silly things before I get them posted. Sometimes I can't remember what my point was in the first place I get so mad at the silly puter. That's about when I go downstairs and kick the living crappe out of my bag until I realise that either what I was saying will come back to me if it was worth saying, or if it was a particularly brilliant idea, someone else will come up with it too and post a long reply saving me the trouble. Then all I gotta say is "like HE said"!!!
G
girlychuks
Guest
:rofl: AHEM* Fragile??? You say women that rapists target are *fragile* and say training won;t protect them? What kind of women train and remain *fragile*? Ever hear the story of the twelve year old girl judoka who socked it to a child molestor with *one* hand. He whipped it out, she zipped him back up. He left peices of his member as he ran.
That is training, Carbon. Martial arts involve learning your opponent's vulnerabilities, and capitalizing on them. Rapists are generally cowards, and are surmountable.
I sit here with a split eyebrow and black eye due to a hell of a ridge hand. I notice you use the term *real fight* in your post- well, the black eye given to me by blue belt and thr black eye given by a jerk, or a bit*h, are one and the same....
We can take a hit Carbon, believe me.
All the best, Cathy
Damian Mavis
Master Black Belt
Although I don't agree with Carbons point of view about this I do think he meant something else when he said "rapists target fragile women".
Rapists often choose thier victims based on the body language and signals they get from the prospective victim. (notice I said often! I'm sure there are exceptions to every rule -- this goes the same for muggings and other related assaults) The signals they are looking for can be summed up in one word FRAGILE. A rapist is often looking for a target that will be easily cowered into doing exactly what they want. Why pick a strong looking target that will fight or even yell and scream? Too much trouble. By strong I mean strong willed, a woman with her shoulders back and head up and confidence in her eye. A woman that makes eye contact with a man she finds threatening even if hes on the other side of the street. The rapist has just gotten the message that the woman knows hes there and isnt afraid to let him know she knows. In society we often keep our eyes lowered and hope that something scary just goes away. Worst thing you can do.
Anyway, I could go on and on about this but I'll just call it quits here. There have been countless studies and interviews based on this subject and that is were I got my information. (Interviews with rapists in prison who almost all agree that they look for an easy "mark" as an example )
Damian Mavis
Honour TKD
Rapists often choose thier victims based on the body language and signals they get from the prospective victim. (notice I said often! I'm sure there are exceptions to every rule -- this goes the same for muggings and other related assaults) The signals they are looking for can be summed up in one word FRAGILE. A rapist is often looking for a target that will be easily cowered into doing exactly what they want. Why pick a strong looking target that will fight or even yell and scream? Too much trouble. By strong I mean strong willed, a woman with her shoulders back and head up and confidence in her eye. A woman that makes eye contact with a man she finds threatening even if hes on the other side of the street. The rapist has just gotten the message that the woman knows hes there and isnt afraid to let him know she knows. In society we often keep our eyes lowered and hope that something scary just goes away. Worst thing you can do.
Anyway, I could go on and on about this but I'll just call it quits here. There have been countless studies and interviews based on this subject and that is were I got my information. (Interviews with rapists in prison who almost all agree that they look for an easy "mark" as an example )
Damian Mavis
Honour TKD
Damian,
For the sake of Argument let us assume you are correct in interpreting Carbons' post. It is
no more valid or invalid them mine.
Your quote of the 'Fragile' Women being targets,
can be used for my argument of the fact that
everyone women should have some training. This
allows them to gain some confidence and self
worth and build a stronger ego.
NOTE: Many women have all these attributes, this
discussion is about Fragile Women in theory.
If a women can gain some training even in a class
full of women who do not go 'FULL' contact,
does this not allow this 'Fragile' student to
gain confidence and at least keep their eyes
open? Does it not offer them a better chance to
survive by knowing they should run and yell
things like 'Stranger' - to get the attention of
every other parent in the area?
What I got from Carbon, was that even if the women
are Fragile or not they could not survive a full
assault from an 'Ape' like me and therefore should
not even try. Once again Carbon I am sorry if that
is not what you meant.
Just my thoughts and replies. Everyone is entitled
to their own.
Best Regards
Rich
:asian:
Damian Mavis
Master Black Belt
Uh yeah. Like I originally posted I don't agree with Carbon on this but girlychucks seemed very insulted thinking that Carbon was saying rapists target women because they are fragile. I thought he meant rapists target a certain type of woman...ie. a fragile one. Nowere in my post did I state anything about women wasting their time with self defence because they are too fragile anyway. I get mad everytime I meet a woman that doesn't take some sort of self defence training, to me they are walking vicitms just waiting their turn. (when I say I get mad I mean in my heart, not to the persons face... not my place to lecture strange women on safety).
Damian Mavis
Honour TKD
Damian Mavis
Honour TKD
- Thread Starter
- #77
Ok i had an excellent post and it deleted it again. I think its because I was logged in through hotmail.
Well I will sum up the post, i didn't mean women shoudln't take martial arts only that some things are hard to train for, aka a hormone raged rapists who just got out of prison and all he did in there was get in fights and workout.
I am also saying that you only fight people in your dojo, and the average person can take MA thats why its so great, but people you can really knock you out are thugs who wonder the streets.
I know people who can take hits in their eye, nose, jaw and be fine and with no MA training.
MA training isn't suppost to train you to beable to withstand hits to the face in my mind, its suppost to beable to teach you to prevent from being hit in the face.
And the reason you can take a hit in the eye alot easier then say in the temple or jaw is because there aren't that many nerve endings surrouding the bone around your eye.
This is all.
Well I will sum up the post, i didn't mean women shoudln't take martial arts only that some things are hard to train for, aka a hormone raged rapists who just got out of prison and all he did in there was get in fights and workout.
I am also saying that you only fight people in your dojo, and the average person can take MA thats why its so great, but people you can really knock you out are thugs who wonder the streets.
I know people who can take hits in their eye, nose, jaw and be fine and with no MA training.
MA training isn't suppost to train you to beable to withstand hits to the face in my mind, its suppost to beable to teach you to prevent from being hit in the face.
And the reason you can take a hit in the eye alot easier then say in the temple or jaw is because there aren't that many nerve endings surrouding the bone around your eye.
This is all.
Damian,
I apologize if I have offended you.
I did not mean to do so, if I had.
I understand your post much better now, and that
is why I posted back my comments and questions
to get clarifications.
Thank you and have a nice day.
Rich
Carbon,
I am glad you are back on to reply and clarify.
Thank you
Rich
Damian Mavis
Master Black Belt
No no I wasn't insulted, I was just confused a little. I was thinking you were misinterpreting my post.
Damian Mavis
Honour TKD
Damian Mavis
Honour TKD
I have no problem competing against men in weapons/forms/showmanship divisions. In these divisions, the competitor is judged on what they do as an individual, and weight and strength don't matter. However, men and women shouldn't compete in sparring matches.
in the dojo, it doesn't matter, you're practicing.
In a competition, it is simply too hard to insure a fair fight. Men have usually between 9 and 14 percent body fat. A healthy woman typically is 18-24 percent. That means that a 150 pound woman will have around 30 pounds of fat to carry around (this is mostly baby insulation, folks), and a 150 pound man will only have around 15 pounds of fat to carry around. Bones will weigh about the same, and the rest of the weight is mostly muscle...therefore a man and woman of the same weight are NOT equally matched. Were a woman to train to get her body fat percentage down to what a man has to ensure an equal match, her body fat would be at a level so low for women it would interfere with her reproductive system.
Its too hard to ensure a fair fight, even if you go by weight, because women carry around more fat weight than men, and we're supposed to. Heavier women beating up on lighter men wouldn't look fair either. I think that kata/weapons/showmanship/self defense divisions should be co-ed. Sparring is separate for a reason and ought to stay that way.
I have no problem sparring men in my studio, but its practice, and we're all there to help each other learn. A tournament isn't about learning. Its about fair competition, and you can't have a truly fair competition for sparring that is co-ed without taking in way more factors than practical.
in the dojo, it doesn't matter, you're practicing.
In a competition, it is simply too hard to insure a fair fight. Men have usually between 9 and 14 percent body fat. A healthy woman typically is 18-24 percent. That means that a 150 pound woman will have around 30 pounds of fat to carry around (this is mostly baby insulation, folks), and a 150 pound man will only have around 15 pounds of fat to carry around. Bones will weigh about the same, and the rest of the weight is mostly muscle...therefore a man and woman of the same weight are NOT equally matched. Were a woman to train to get her body fat percentage down to what a man has to ensure an equal match, her body fat would be at a level so low for women it would interfere with her reproductive system.
Its too hard to ensure a fair fight, even if you go by weight, because women carry around more fat weight than men, and we're supposed to. Heavier women beating up on lighter men wouldn't look fair either. I think that kata/weapons/showmanship/self defense divisions should be co-ed. Sparring is separate for a reason and ought to stay that way.
I have no problem sparring men in my studio, but its practice, and we're all there to help each other learn. A tournament isn't about learning. Its about fair competition, and you can't have a truly fair competition for sparring that is co-ed without taking in way more factors than practical.
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