Why do you like fighting?

[Kong Soo Do]

Is different for every person I am sure.. Do you like fighting? I am asked this question and find it difficult to explain to a person who does not routinely fight.. I do not mean training drills and technique. I mean fighting. Any fighting that is not training drills or technique, in any circumstance, why do you like it?

Also, have you ever been engaged in a fight out of necessity and got what might be called enjoyment, or a buzz from it? Just a question.

Thank you.

From my perspective, anything in a controlled environment is not a fight. I consider a fight as one person attacking the other with the intent of causing injury and/or committing a crime. In my career I've had to use force against violent criminals in excess of a thousand times. I don't even count them anymore. I've had to cause injury and incapacitation on multiple occasions. I've never enjoyed nor derived pleasure from any of them. I do what I have to do to protect myself, others and even the subject him/herself from further harm.

 

[Jenna]

Many years ago I filled my fuel tank and drove about five miles down the road. Just as I was about to turn right a truck rammed into the back of my car with such force that it flattened the rear of the car and chopped off the top of the fuel tank. As I pulled myself upright ( the seat back had snapped) I could see the road alight for about 50 yards behind me. I jumped out of the car as it was coming to a halt and stood there looking at the aftermath.

You may by now be wondering what the hell this has to do with fighting. Well the feeling of elation at getting out alive and relatively unscathed is the same as I feel after a fight. On that day I was buzzing.

One is elation at having survived.. and the other encourages in you the same? It concerns surviving a fight unscathed or some thing else maybe?? thank you.. that sound like quite a traumatic event for you

 

[Monkey Turned Wolf]

Thank you for writing specially since your view deviate from perhaps what I perceive as orthodox maybe.. It was suggested further up ^ that anyone looking for a fight needs to take a serious look inward, how would you respond to that? You know this term moral compass? where is your moral compass with regard to liking fights as you have said? thank you.. is appreciated

I can understand the idea that anyone looking for a fight needs to look inward, but don't 100% agree with it. I think that if you enjoy fighting for the purpose of hurting another human being, or due to anger, those are things you should look inward for. To me, the joy does not come from that, and I would not throw the first punch as, IMO, if the other person throws it, they are consenting to fight. Also, if I were to seriously hurt the other person in a way that required hospitalization I would feel incredibly bad about it afterwards. It's primarily the adrenaline rush and the uncertainty that I enjoy.

I do have to look inward and remind myself that the possible consequences (hurting them, hurting myself, getting arrested, etc.) outweigh the rush that I may feel in the moment

As for moral compass, I feel that I have a pretty good moral compass. Like I said, my aim is never to hurt other people, even if that does happen. I'm also always there for my friends, When I have free time I do charity work, and I am currently in a much lower paying profession than I could have been in, primarily because in the lower paying profession my career is quite literally to help people.

 

[Ironbear24]

Thank you for posting your views.. can I ask you a question please? Drama aside is there a scale of acceptability in that feeling of adrenaline or excitement you mention? You know what I mean, a sliding scale? or is it simple black and white, like just plain wrong / wrongminded / immoral and ought to be avoided or at least regretted afterwards? Thank you

When fighting no, there was only one situation where I did feel some guilt because the level of damage I did. I hit this guy in the mouth and busted his lip, later on thinking about it I felt guilty because I helped the fight happen.

It started out as a dumb argument then I escalated it by insulting him, fighting then was brought up and I told him "I don't fight kids." So that angered him more and I knew that would. He played into a trap that I subconsciously was setting him up for.

The fight basically did not need to happen because it was just a guy who was very drunk acting stupid. I could have easily at any time just fed his ego and said "nah man I don't want any of that." At the time I even felt conflicted and asked the forum if I was in the right. Many said yes but when they heard more and more about the situation they began to say that I could have easily just left it alone.

So yeah there is a sense of guilt at times but it isn't black and white or on and off. I feel like these things are a spectrum or scale as you said. That particular fight was just all about me "looking cool." And that's why I felt bad about it because I guess deep down I knew that wasn't right.

 

[JP3]

It doesn't have to be PC. It's what it is. We are who we are.

True that.

 

[JP3]

Thank you JP3 for taking time to note down your thoughts.. I like to ask you about this where you say it still felt good.. how do you feel about admitting that? that is the thing that cause you to say not PC? Hope that question make sense

Yes, Jenna the question makes perfect sense. It is also dead on target as to that statement not being politically correct (PC).

Personally, I am definitly not a fan of the politically correct speech movement, i.e. speaking in euphemisms about life and worldview observations. I much prefer truth-isms. As an example, I simply do not think of my fellow US people as Anglo-Americans, African-Americans, Mexican-Americans, Japanese-Americans and on down that line until you've included everyone. When exactly did simple descriptive verbiage become taboo? That is an actual question for which I've been seeking an answer for about 20 years. Certainly, every type of people has a hate word for them, mostly hurtful, some ludicrous, but the simple descriptive ones not being OK makes me frowny-faced. I'm a white dude. One of my best friends from undergrad is a black dude. One of my closest friends and training partners now is an Indian dude, who is 1st generation American with both parents from India. In the middle of my path to date one of my best friends was a Thai guy who I've moved away from in geography but not in spirit.

I know great white folks, black folks, Mexican folks, Japanese folks, Korean folks, Chinese folks, Indian folks of both dot and feather varieties (and both groups of them I know are cool with the humorous descriptive tag), and I know these same types of folks in Canada, Mexico, USA, England, Italy, Germany and France. So, I cringe when people stop and start their story when they start out saying for example, "Hey, I was talking to this hot Mexican girl .... uh... [looking around] Mexican-American woman and".... OR "Hey, I was talking to this Black guy .... uh... [looking around] African-American guy I met at the gym playing ball and"....

Ouch, just ouch. Just talk. If you are not trying to be a douchbag, it will be clear from your words and tone. If you are... well, that's the same result.

Precisely what is wrong with "hot Mexican girl?" In my opinion, nothing. What's wrong with Black guy? Again, imo nothing. White dude? Nothing, except that I perhaps use dude and bro too much.

Sorry, that was a left turn on the explanation.

With regard to PC on this precise topic. In nearly-all MA schools, under nearly every instructor anywhere (other than the military services and peacekeeping/security guys/gals) we, as students, are taught, shoot, I can quote Mr. Miyagi on this, it's a great scene:

Daniel: So, karate's fighting. You train to fight.

Miyagi: That what you think?

Daniel: [pondering] No.

Miyagi: Then why train?

Daniel: [thinks] So I won't have to fight.

Miyagi: [laughs] Miyagi have hope for you.

** ----> So.... [Insert appropriate name of your martial art here] is to protect yourself, for self-defense, it is not to be used to intimidate or hurt others, to gain social advantage or for any other unseemly purpose. it is for self-development, for exercise, for health and a myriad of other reasons, none of which are to intentionally cause pain or injury to another outside of a self-defense situation.

But... some few of us... just can't or possibly won't stick to the script, usually for background (nurture) rather than make-up (nature) reasons, though some people are just, as Gerry notes, wired differently. We're honest about it - the liking of the combat, adrenaline, whatever... which goes against the grain of the teaching, and in some places some very skilled and well-respected instructors would be (possibly are) very disappointed. Maybe.

There ya go.

 

[Ironbear24]

That was pretty off topic but I often just refer to people as dude as "hey you". That never really causes problems, if I'm asked to describe someone then I'll say black guy/chic, white guy/chic, Asian guy/chic ECT.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

Yes, Jenna the question makes perfect sense. It is also dead on target as to that statement not being politically correct (PC).

Personally, I am definitly not a fan of the politically correct speech movement, i.e. speaking in euphemisms about life and worldview observations. I much prefer truth-isms. As an example, I simply do not think of my fellow US people as Anglo-Americans, African-Americans, Mexican-Americans, Japanese-Americans and on down that line until you've included everyone. When exactly did simple descriptive verbiage become taboo? That is an actual question for which I've been seeking an answer for about 20 years. Certainly, every type of people has a hate word for them, mostly hurtful, some ludicrous, but the simple descriptive ones not being OK makes me frowny-faced. I'm a white dude. One of my best friends from undergrad is a black dude. One of my closest friends and training partners now is an Indian dude, who is 1st generation American with both parents from India. In the middle of my path to date one of my best friends was a Thai guy who I've moved away from in geography but not in spirit.

I know great white folks, black folks, Mexican folks, Japanese folks, Korean folks, Chinese folks, Indian folks of both dot and feather varieties (and both groups of them I know are cool with the humorous descriptive tag), and I know these same types of folks in Canada, Mexico, USA, England, Italy, Germany and France. So, I cringe when people stop and start their story when they start out saying for example, "Hey, I was talking to this hot Mexican girl .... uh... [looking around] Mexican-American woman and".... OR "Hey, I was talking to this Black guy .... uh... [looking around] African-American guy I met at the gym playing ball and"....

Ouch, just ouch. Just talk. If you are not trying to be a douchbag, it will be clear from your words and tone. If you are... well, that's the same result.

Precisely what is wrong with "hot Mexican girl?" In my opinion, nothing. What's wrong with Black guy? Again, imo nothing. White dude? Nothing, except that I perhaps use dude and bro too much.

Sorry, that was a left turn on the explanation.

With regard to PC on this precise topic. In nearly-all MA schools, under nearly every instructor anywhere (other than the military services and peacekeeping/security guys/gals) we, as students, are taught, shoot, I can quote Mr. Miyagi on this, it's a great scene:

Daniel: So, karate's fighting. You train to fight.

Miyagi: That what you think?

Daniel: [pondering] No.

Miyagi: Then why train?

Daniel: [thinks] So I won't have to fight.

Miyagi: [laughs] Miyagi have hope for you.

** ----> So.... [Insert appropriate name of your martial art here] is to protect yourself, for self-defense, it is not to be used to intimidate or hurt others, to gain social advantage or for any other unseemly purpose. it is for self-development, for exercise, for health and a myriad of other reasons, none of which are to intentionally cause pain or injury to another outside of a self-defense situation.

But... some few of us... just can't or possibly won't stick to the script, usually for background (nurture) rather than make-up (nature) reasons, though some people are just, as Gerry notes, wired differently. We're honest about it - the liking of the combat, adrenaline, whatever... which goes against the grain of the teaching, and in some places some very skilled and well-respected instructors would be (possibly are) very disappointed. Maybe.

There ya go.

Remaining off-topic for a moment (because I never start the off-topic stuff!), I'm not a fan of a lot of the overly-PC stuff that goes on. I actually had a client group complain about me after a workshop I delivered. Part of the content was talking about stereotypes and biases. The CFO was offended that I mentioned a stereotype that included her ethnic group. She was offended because she felt the stereotype shouldn't be mentioned because there were plenty of people it wouldn't apply to. The precise point I was making was that stereotypes were dangerous because they didn't tell us anything about individuals. She literally suggested I shouldn't use any stereotypes in my training that would possibly apply to anyone in the room. So, she was basically offended that I acknowledged that stereotypes exist.

 

[JR 137]

I never liked fighting. I never felt better about myself afterwards, win or lose. Looking back, I guess I always felt like I did what I had to do, not what I enjoyed doing.

I was taught at a very young age to stand up for myself; don't start a fight, but don't run away from one either...

My stepbrothers are a year older than I am. We lived in the projects. I was the only white kid, they were the only Hispanic kids. When I was in kindergarten, we heard "there goes the white boys!" followed by a group of 5 or 6 older kids. We'd run home and just make it in before they caught us. This went on for a few days in a row. When my stepfather (who worked nights so he was home when we got there) found out what was going on, he said "either you guys go out there and fight them, or you stay in here and fight me." They were waiting outside for us, so we went out and fought. He came out a few minutes into it and stopped it.

When we got inside, he told us "if you run today, you'll have to run every day; if you stand up for yourself and fight, you won't have to run again." He was right.

We got into fights after that, but they weren't fights due to being targeted/bullied.

Even at other schools, I wasn't bullied because people knew I wouldn't stand there and take it. Why bully the kid who's going to fight, win or lose?

I haven't had to fight since college. But even then, I never felt good about it. I won far more fights then I lost, but I was never proud of it.

I respect those who say run away if you have to. It was never my thing though. I guess that lesson I learned in kindergarten stuck. If I'm outnumbered or there's weapons involved, that's a different story though.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

"there goes the white boys!"

When the communist party took over China, my father brought my family from China to Taiwan. For those local Taiwanese, they would call those mainland invader as "mainland pig". When I was in my 3rd grade, one day I got into fight with my classmate. The teacher hit the other boy once and hit me 6 times. The teacher then asked me if I knew why. I said I didn't. The teacher then said, "Because you are a mainland pig".

The war between Taiwanese and mainland pig existed for many years. I fought through my elementary school years just because I refused to be called as "mainland pig". When human try to beat up a pig, that pig will fight back.

 

[CB Jones]

Got a nice anecdotal story:

Played football with a guy who liked to fight. A big muscled up dude that played fullback in college.

His dad and him were known as hotheads and **** talkers. One summer at the lake after having way too much to drink they picked a fight with a guy from who they thought was from a neighboring town.

3 punches and two broken jaws later they learned that they really didn't like fighting.


We found out couple weeks later he was a very accomplished amateur boxer from New York visiting in laws.

They saw a smaller guy they thought they could bully and found out the hard way what most people already know.....it's better to avoid fights.

 

[senseiblackbelt]

because its challenging and its nice to be aware... I am talking about fighting for fun...

 

[Transk53]

Fighting may seem enjoyable, but for it is not. Just a necessary means of defending oneself. Actually hurting people isn't cool, and the aftermath of doing that never leaves anything but a bad taste for me.

 

[Jenna]

But... some few of us... just can't or possibly won't stick to the script, usually for background (nurture) rather than make-up (nature) reasons, though some people are just, as Gerry notes, wired differently. We're honest about it - the liking of the combat, adrenaline, whatever... which goes against the grain of the teaching, and in some places some very skilled and well-respected instructors would be (possibly are) very disappointed. Maybe.

There ya go.

I value your forthrightness and honesty @JP3 and like you say left turn, to me that is just the nature of all good conversation I think if we are not to be conditioned as robots so thank you for left turn xo

And maybe I push my luck and ask another question please about your left turn.. can you comment on what is the link or relation between these two things.. ie. political correctness which curtails ways of speech, and a social distaste for the liking of fighting?

 

[Jenna]

because its challenging and its nice to be aware... I am talking about fighting for fun...

When you say aware.. could you explain please in what way you mean that to be aware? Thank you

 

[JP3]

Can you comment on what is the link or relation between these two things.. ie. political correctness which curtails ways of speech, and a social distaste for the liking of fighting?

I can attempt it. I am not positive what I am trying to describe is actually "political correctness," so much as it may be potentially misguided opinion. I think that everyone can agree on the following statement taken in a vacuum:

Initiating a fight with the sole intention of causing pain or injury to another is wrong.

Some (most I would think) would say that to use MA skills against the person who did so initiate a fight is acceptable, sometimes even honorable/required behavior. In the thread responses above, some of the folks - and I respect all of y'all for your honesty of response - admit to, at one point in their lives, being such an instigator, and for various reasons, found the feeling of coming out a victor one of pleasure. My inquiry into this feeling would be as to the nature of this pleasure.... was it mere endorphin release at the end of an adrenalin dump, which one might also create with the comnpletion of a strenuous workout? Or, is it something else? Kong Soo Do's response above, indicates to me that there is a maturation process at work. Having delivered... ahh... knowledge in something like 1,000+ encounters, and having had to injure persons to control a bad situation, often and over time, seems to get rid of the... I struggle for a word describing a concept here... the pleasure of surviving intact combined with the pleasure of knowing the other individual does not share the same feeling? Hard to get a grip on that.

Anyway... the link between PC-speak and the not liking to fight is that, really we're not trained to fight, we're trained to stop fights, and to speak about it in other terms is frowned upon, in much the same way that saying Black Guy is frowned upon in many areas and there is some societal pressure to conform such speech to the mainstream, i.e. African-American Man. So, to complete the analogy, saying "I like to fight," is frowned on, and society (of the martial artists) puts pressure on all of us to say, "I really don't like to fight, but when I have to I will and I will enjoy ruining your day for making such a dumb decision." Well... that last bit is probably my own spin, but hey...

 

[senseiblackbelt]

When you say aware.. could you explain please in what way you mean that to be aware? Thank you

when you are fighting you need
to be aware and have your eyes open so that you can detect any kick punch or trick your opponent is trying to use and work out a successful counter attack to that

 

[Obito Uchiha]

Puberty issues.

 

[Balrog]

Is different for every person I am sure.. Do you like fighting? I am asked this question and find it difficult to explain to a person who does not routinely fight.. I do not mean training drills and technique. I mean fighting. Any fighting that is not training drills or technique, in any circumstance, why do you like it?

Also, have you ever been engaged in a fight out of necessity and got what might be called enjoyment, or a buzz from it? Just a question.

Thank you.

I hate fighting. That's why I studied martial arts. I learned to fight so that I could learn how to not fight.

 

[donald1]

I like the benefits. In a fight you gotta think quick. Obviously you cant just stand there and think how am I going to strike... I know I learned that one the hard way. Also you get a good sense of how you prefer fighting. What works for you.with practice you learn to pay attention to detail. And eventually... your fighting begins to look less awkward and more like... actual fighting ya know. Experience really is a good teacher!