Your Fighting Tip

[Monkey Turned Wolf]

Bzzzzt. Wrong. Post #215 "Wow Mz1, bravo for all your astounding observations. I barely even know where to begin and am debating whether or not I even should address what you said, because now I do believe you are merely trolling."

Ok, I stand corrected.

My comment was that his skills as a Boxer is applicable in the street.

And my comment was that he disagrees with that idea, and your overall argument, at least to an extent. Any reason we're explaining our pretty simple comments to each other?
EDIT: and as an answer to your actual question...No, I would not walk up to Mike Tyson and poke him in the eyes, for multiple reasons.
1. I would not walk up to anyone and 'poke them in the eyes' or anything similar. That is attacking, not SD.
2. He is much larger than me, and much more durable to pain. If I were to attack him, it would most likely be with multiple strikes, at least one of them being some sort of strike to the carotid artery (it's an area I've been trained to hit, and remember, he has no reason to expect it since I'm 'walking up to him and hitting him')
3. He is much larger than me, so I would not want to get in a fight with him at all. I'd do an escaping moving to get out of his distance and run, not move in to fight.
4. He has much, much more experience with boxing then I do with Kempo, and he's larger than me by a good 100 pounds. 1 punch from him could send me to the ground, no matter how in shape I am.
5. I'm not a huge fan of eye pokes in general. Gouging, maybe, although I've never had an oppurtunity to test how easy/tough that is. But poking, that just aggravates them.
6. He's much larger than me (have I mentioned that already?)

Obviously he was working on his PR. Right around that time he was being accused of rape and such. He's also has a long history of spousal abuse. Or did you really think that Tyson was really scared. Wait you did, didn't you?

He said that in an interview after the fact. If you look at his interviews during that time period, not once does he mention being scared in the ring, so why would he lie and say he was scared during the time he was exclaiming how he was the baddest around, and wasn't scared of anything. Read bad intentions, he got scared a lot, especially early on

So this anonymous Russian Boxer guy and his personal experience (which could all be lies) is now the benchmark and final authority on this subject & debate now?

Not anymore than this anonymous Mz1 MMA guy and his personal experience is now the benchmark and final authority on this subject & debate now. Just giving an example to support an argument.
Oh, and you saying I consider him the final authority is just lying. Show me where I said that. (see what I did there, using your own 'debating techniques' against you?)

 

[Monkey Turned Wolf]

and since for some odd reason I have a feeling you'll tell me that a hit to the carotid artery or the windpipe is a 'ninja move', here you go:
http://www.askthestreetfighter.com/combatmoves/strikeeffects/striking-carotid-arteries.php

 

[Jaeimseu]

I don't practice MMA, nor do I have any interest in practicing it. And I don't really have a dog in the fight over whether or not MMA or TMA are more effective for self defense.

I think bringing the lack of a referee, etc into the argument is mostly a lot of noise. Once all parties are aware that there is a self defense situation, how much difference is there really between a competitive and a real fight? The mindset may be different. And the outcome could be different (though I don't agree that most real fights are life and death). However, a strike that ends the fight ends the fight. It doesn't matter what someone studied.

And when it comes to a surprise attack (someone clubbing you when you aren't looking), it doesn't matter what you've studied, either. I don't believe that MMA or TMA inherently prepares someone for this kind of situation. I think it's more self awareness and awareness of your surroundings coming into play. A person doesn't need any MA training to learn these skills.

Neither side is going to change the other side's mind. TMA people tend to get emotional when MMA people call what they do "play fighting," and sports people get annoyed when TMA people extrapolate about why sport fighting doesn't prepare someone for the street. In the end, who cares? If you enjoy what you do, then keep doing it.

 

[Mauthos]

I have been following this post with interest as this is the first time I have witnessed this sort of back and forth arguments (first real forum I have signed up to).

What interests me is the debate MMA is better than TMA or vice versa and that one is more effective in a street situation than the other. My personal opinion is that it all really depends on the situation and as a martial artist what reaction comes to you first.

I started off my martial arts path with Shotokan karate when I was 6. Didn't like it if I am honest and quit after about 1 year. A few years later I took up kick boxing, then due to my military career I trained in whatever happened to be in the local area, so I have trained in Wado Ryu, Tang Soo Do, Jujitsu, Ninjitsu, Akido, Din Gar Gung Fu, Systema, Tae Kwon Do, Akijutsu (SP?) and Kenpo. Would I call myself an MMAist? as technically my background is in a mix of martial arts, no I am a Kenpo TMA guy, why? Because that is the art I have managed to stick with for the past 10 years and the one I teach.

I have had over 60 full contact fights during my time as a boxer and kick boxer for the RAF, but my natural reaction in recent years has not been to resort to a punch to the face when I have been attacked on the street. The reason behind this is that I train in Kenpo day in day out, the so called choreographed moves Mz1 claims (apologies if you never stated this) are so ingrained with me that if someone does swing for me I tend to move out the way, attack the limb to shock and disable and then look to strike the throat, knees or as is common in Kenpo, the groin.

I believe this is what true fights are all about. 2 drunken slobs with no training will swing punches all day long until they gas or get lucky as it is probably the only way they know how to fight. An MMA guy who trains solely in MMA more than likely will go for the punch or elbow strike to the face and the TMA guys may use open palm strikes to more 'delicate' areas of their attackers.

I don't believe that there is an art that is better than all others, every martial art offers something to a student to help them defend themselves when the need arises.

My teaching is mainly the SD techniques within the Kenpo syllabus, however I also teach competition sparring (point stop etc) but I also feel it is essential to put pressure on my students when they are practicing their SD techniques (resisting, pushing them around etc) to add realism. This also extends to sparring, yes with the point stop, a strike is landed, the fighters stop, reset and go again. However, it is also important to me that my students understand that real fights are continuous so in that respect we also train full contact continuous sparring. The intention is not to KO each other, but believe me, my students definitely know what it is like to take a shot.

Therefore, as this waffle gets longer than intended, let me sum up in saying that I think each aspect of training within a TMA or a MMA style is effective (recently a student broke his arm performing a SD technique a little too effectively in class) and what you call upon when in a street fight naturally is probably your best defense. Whether that is strikes, locks or chokes all can be effective when trained well.

No art is better than another, MMA is not better than TMA or vice versa, how you react based on your training is how you will fight and hopefully how you will succeed and defend yourself successfully. Well that's my take on the topic anyway.

Salute.

 

[Tez3]

I have been following this post with interest as this is the first time I have witnessed this sort of back and forth arguments (first real forum I have signed up to).

What interests me is the debate MMA is better than TMA or vice versa and that one is more effective in a street situation than the other. My personal opinion is that it all really depends on the situation and as a martial artist what reaction comes to you first.

I started off my martial arts path with Shotokan karate when I was 6. Didn't like it if I am honest and quit after about 1 year. A few years later I took up kick boxing, then due to my military career I trained in whatever happened to be in the local area, so I have trained in Wado Ryu, Tang Soo Do, Jujitsu, Ninjitsu, Akido, Din Gar Gung Fu, Systema, Tae Kwon Do, Akijutsu (SP?) and Kenpo. Would I call myself an MMAist? as technically my background is in a mix of martial arts, no I am a Kenpo TMA guy, why? Because that is the art I have managed to stick with for the past 10 years and the one I teach.

I have had over 60 full contact fights during my time as a boxer and kick boxer for the RAF, but my natural reaction in recent years has not been to resort to a punch to the face when I have been attacked on the street. The reason behind this is that I train in Kenpo day in day out, the so called choreographed moves Mz1 claims (apologies if you never stated this) are so ingrained with me that if someone does swing for me I tend to move out the way, attack the limb to shock and disable and then look to strike the throat, knees or as is common in Kenpo, the groin.

I believe this is what true fights are all about. 2 drunken slobs with no training will swing punches all day long until they gas or get lucky as it is probably the only way they know how to fight. An MMA guy who trains solely in MMA more than likely will go for the punch or elbow strike to the face and the TMA guys may use open palm strikes to more 'delicate' areas of their attackers.

I don't believe that there is an art that is better than all others, every martial art offers something to a student to help them defend themselves when the need arises.

My teaching is mainly the SD techniques within the Kenpo syllabus, however I also teach competition sparring (point stop etc) but I also feel it is essential to put pressure on my students when they are practicing their SD techniques (resisting, pushing them around etc) to add realism. This also extends to sparring, yes with the point stop, a strike is landed, the fighters stop, reset and go again. However, it is also important to me that my students understand that real fights are continuous so in that respect we also train full contact continuous sparring. The intention is not to KO each other, but believe me, my students definitely know what it is like to take a shot.

Therefore, as this waffle gets longer than intended, let me sum up in saying that I think each aspect of training within a TMA or a MMA style is effective (recently a student broke his arm performing a SD technique a little too effectively in class) and what you call upon when in a street fight naturally is probably your best defense. Whether that is strikes, locks or chokes all can be effective when trained well.

No art is better than another, MMA is not better than TMA or vice versa, how you react based on your training is how you will fight and hopefully how you will succeed and defend yourself successfully. Well that's my take on the topic anyway.

Salute.

QFT, spot on.

 

[oaktree]

Hi mz1
I guess we will agree to disagree.
You might want to reflect on your negative status and
How you present yourself on the forum.
Anyway best of luck.

 

[Cirdan]

To get back on topic, my tip would be to let go of your ego.

(This may be a long journey if you are an insecure internet tough guy)

 

[Tez3]

 

[Gnarlie]

I didn't say JKD is dead, just that it fizzled (just like Bartitsu). JDK could have been as big as MMA right now had it went the sporty route rather than the death-touch one (like that better than ninja-strike?). But you can't tell me it went very far at all considering how popular and profitable Kung-Fu was right after Enter the Dragon became a worldwide hit. Then in the 80's, it was TKD McDojos that sprouted up everywhere. Where was JKD? You obviously just got all wound up just because I said fizzled and neglected to read what I wrote more carefully.

You said it fizzled OUT. That's saying it died.

I read what you wrote and understood it perfectly well, thanks. It told me everything I need to know about you.

There's nothing 'death touch' or 'ninja strike' about JKD or many other modern martial arts with their roots in tradition.

On the other hand, considering your closed-off attitude to everything other than the MMA sport syllabus and your own opinion, there's no reason you would know that fact. Most closed-minded people learn very slowly and inefficiently. They think they know it all, but everyone else can see them for what they really are.

Gnarlie

 

[Tez3]

You said it fizzled OUT. That's saying it died.

I read what you wrote and understood it perfectly well, thanks. It told me everything I need to know about you.

There's nothing 'death touch' or 'ninja strike' about JKD or many other modern martial arts with their roots in tradition.

On the other hand, considering your closed-off attitude to everything other than the MMA sport syllabus and your own opinion, there's no reason you would know that fact. Most closed-minded people learn very slowly and inefficiently. They think they know it all, but everyone else can see them for what they really are.

Gnarlie

To be honest I wouldn't say his knowledge and practice of MMA is that great either, There's never a need to be defensive and insulting if you are confident of what you do. It's interesting that several of us are told we don't understand what he's written or that our understanding is flawed. sadly I think we understand all too well. I'd thought that at MT we had come to understand the differences between MMA and TMA and the things that are alike and we'd respected both, we don't need a Tap Out wunderkind stirring it all up again, especially when his knowledge of MMA is incomplete.

 

[Mz1]

And my comment was that he disagrees with that idea, and your overall argument, at least to an extent. Any reason we're explaining our pretty simple comments to each other?

He said that in an interview after the fact. If you look at his interviews during that time period, not once does he mention being scared in the ring, so why would he lie and say he was scared during the time he was exclaiming how he was the baddest around, and wasn't scared of anything. Read bad intentions, he got scared a lot, especially early on

Well before he trained in Boxing by Cus, he was just a fat kid in somewhat like an orphanage in the Bronx. He was probably bullied and sexually raped by older boys. So I don't doubt him being afraid in certain situations that triggers childhood memories. You're probably just taking things way out of context.

But fear is common. Everyone has fears. I'm sure Tyson would fear walking down a dark, deserted alley late at night by himself, as would most of us. The difference is, he'd be more capable of handling an attack than most of us would be due to his skills and experience as a World Champion Fighter.




Not anymore than this anonymous Mz1 MMA guy and his personal experience is now the benchmark and final authority on this subject & debate now. Just giving an example to support an argument.
Oh, and you saying I consider him the final authority is just lying. Show me where I said that. (see what I did there, using your own 'debating techniques' against you?)[/QUOTE]

 

[Touch Of Death]

Well before he trained in Boxing by Cus, he was just a fat kid in somewhat like an orphanage in the Bronx. He was probably bullied and sexually raped by older boys. So I don't doubt him being afraid in certain situations that triggers childhood memories. You're probably just taking things way out of context.

But fear is common. Everyone has fears. I'm sure Tyson would fear walking down a dark, deserted alley late at night by himself, as would most of us. The difference is, he'd be more capable of handling an attack than most of us would be due to his skills and experience as a World Champion Fighter.




Not anymore than this anonymous Mz1 MMA guy and his personal experience is now the benchmark and final authority on this subject & debate now. Just giving an example to support an argument.
Oh, and you saying I consider him the final authority is just lying. Show me where I said that. (see what I did there, using your own 'debating techniques' against you?)

[/QUOTE]
Not really! As I recall, he broke his hand in one strike, fighting some guy on the street, and if it were a multiple opponent situation, he would be just as ****ed as anyone else.

 

[Tez3]

Well before he trained in Boxing by Cus, he was just a fat kid in somewhat like an orphanage in the Bronx. He was probably bullied and sexually raped by older boys. So I don't doubt him being afraid in certain situations that triggers childhood memories. You're probably just taking things way out of context.

But fear is common. Everyone has fears. I'm sure Tyson would fear walking down a dark, deserted alley late at night by himself, as would most of us. The difference is, he'd be more capable of handling an attack than most of us would be due to his skills and experience as a World Champion Fighter.




Not anymore than this anonymous Mz1 MMA guy and his personal experience is now the benchmark and final authority on this subject & debate now. Just giving an example to support an argument.
Oh, and you saying I consider him the final authority is just lying. Show me where I said that. (see what I did there, using your own 'debating techniques' against you?)

[/QUOTE]


As opposed to Tyson who is a rapist.

 

[Mz1]

and since for some odd reason I have a feeling you'll tell me that a hit to the carotid artery or the windpipe is a 'ninja move', here you go:
http://www.askthestreetfighter.com/combatmoves/strikeeffects/striking-carotid-arteries.php

I've been sidekick and superman punched, hard in the windpipe before (at least 4x with the SP) and it hardly even slowed me down let alone stop the hard sparring session. I didn't stand completely still like a punching bag to take the full hit....and this is where a lot of TMA people who never spars hard nor fight can ever understand.....based on how they get all riled up about how it's not possible to spar hard for KO's at least once a week because you'll get brain damage or die, etc....because during hard sparring for KO's, which is almost a full fight sometimes....an equally trained opponent doesn't just stand there and take the full hit. They're going to move, block, counter, etc.

Afterward, when I was in the shower, it felt like I had a sore throat and it went away in about 2 days. No biggie. I'd be more worried about an air choke such as a guillotine when it attacks the windpipe. That's why we try not to go all out using these during training.

And good luck doing the Spock strike in a real fight. If you can pull it off, millions of dollars and worldwide fame for yourself and your style of MA...including, shutting up all MMA and anti-TMA rantings.... awaits in the UFC when you Spock-KO all the champions there to take their titles.

 

[Touch Of Death]

I've been sidekick and superman punched, hard in the windpipe before (at least 4x with the SP) and it hardly even slowed me down let alone stop the hard sparring session. I didn't stand completely still like a punching bag to take the full hit....and this is where a lot of TMA people who never spars hard nor fight can ever understand.....based on how they get all riled up about how it's not possible to spar hard for KO's at least once a week because you'll get brain damage or die, etc....because during hard sparring for KO's, which is almost a full fight sometimes....an equally trained opponent doesn't just stand there and take the full hit. They're going to move, block, counter, etc.

Afterward, when I was in the shower, it felt like I had a sore throat and it went away in about 2 days. No biggie. I'd be more worried about an air choke such as a guillotine when it attacks the windpipe. That's why we try not to go all out using these during training.

And good luck doing the Spock strike in a real fight. If you can pull it off, millions of dollars and worldwide fame for yourself and your style of MA...including, shutting up all MMA and anti-TMA rantings.... awaits in the UFC when you Spock-KO all the champions there to take their titles.

If you manage to successfully attack an artery in the neck, they will at the very least, black out for a second or two, and at the most die right there in front of you. I can only imagine they discourage those types of attacks in UFC type competitions. The reason you don't see it more often is because the powers that be don't want to see it. Just an aside, my step-father was stationed in Thai-Land during the Vietnam war, and death matches were happening all the time. It just isn't done here in the States.

 

[Mz1]

Hi mz1
I guess we will agree to disagree.
You might want to reflect on your negative status and
How you present yourself on the forum.
Anyway best of luck.

Ok, cool. And sorry if I get carried away sometimes with my sarcasm.

 

[Mz1]

To get back on topic, my tip would be to let go of your ego.

(This may be a long journey if you are an insecure internet tough guy)

Yet you still managed to take a shot at me by calling me "an insecure internet tough guy" with your condescending post.

Sounds like you need to take your own advice as you're quite a hypocrite I may have an ego, but I try to not be a hypocrite.

Yet no one here will call you out on your condescension nor sarcasm but OTOH, are really quick to accuse me of such, due to their being grossly biased. Thanks for proving my point.

 

[Mz1]

You said it fizzled OUT. That's saying it died.

I read what you wrote and understood it perfectly well, thanks. It told me everything I need to know about you.

Fizzling out doesn't necessarily must mean dying out, although I don't hear much about JKD at all, since Bruce Lee died.

There's nothing 'death touch' or 'ninja strike' about JKD or many other modern martial arts with their roots in tradition.

On the other hand, considering your closed-off attitude to everything other than the MMA sport syllabus and your own opinion, there's no reason you would know that fact. Most closed-minded people learn very slowly and inefficiently. They think they know it all, but everyone else can see them for what they really are.

Gnarlie

I think you're close minded too, as MMA is always open to train techniques that works well.

 

[Dirty Dog]

Yet you still managed to take a shot at me by calling me "an insecure internet tough guy" with your condescending post.

He made a generic statement, about something that is a good idea. Why would you think it was aimed at you, specifically?

Sounds like you need to take your own advice as you're quite a hypocrite I may have an ego, but I try to not be a hypocrite.

Yet no one here will call you out on your condescension nor sarcasm but OTOH, are really quick to accuse me of such, due to their being grossly biased. Thanks for proving my point.

I going to suggest that you let go of your ego. And yes, this time the comment IS directed at you. I know for a fact that you do not have access to the moderator forums, so it's a safe bet that you have no idea, other than those ideas generated by your egocentrism, which users are reported and which ones are nudged/reprimanded/warned/suspended by the staff. My mother taught me not to talk about things when I'd be speaking from ignorance. I've always found that to be good advice.

 

[Tez3]

Yet you still managed to take a shot at me by calling me "an insecure internet tough guy" with your condescending post.

Sounds like you need to take your own advice as you're quite a hypocrite I may have an ego, but I try to not be a hypocrite.

Yet no one here will call you out on your condescension nor sarcasm but OTOH, are really quick to accuse me of such, due to their being grossly biased. Thanks for proving my point.

Actually he didn't call you anything, you need to re-read what Cirdan said. You are increasingly making personal attacks on posters here which to the 'grossly biased' types we are, is not the sign of someone who wants to engage in friendly discussion which is what we are all about.