Why do people think grappling arts always beat striking arts?

[Hanzou]

Speaking of falsehoods:



Really? Most martial arts?

Feel free to name some martial arts that emphasize ground fighting on any reasonable level.

Take this video for example between two experts in Wing Chun and Karate;

Once they hit the ground, its like two children on the playground.

For an analogy this is spot on.

Thank you. TKD faces a similarly silly stereotype.

 

[Hanzou]

You should probably know this guys the biggest bjj fanboy on here and won't take a single point of criticism of the art

Excellent observation from someone who has been here for less than three months.

He didn't say it was garbage, I know that but he still gave a criticism based on his knowledge of it. If in his experience he found it lacked stand up and strikes then well it is what it is. He learned from a different place than you did.

And I was correcting that lack of knowledge. Is there a problem with that?

 

[RTKDCMB]

Feel free to name some martial arts that emphasize ground fighting on any reasonable level.

That wasn't the part of the statement I was referring to. It was the following part:

do little to no training about fighting from an inferior position.

I notice you have added the qualifier 'any reasonable level.' now that I have responded to your earlier statement.

 

[Hanzou]

That wasn't the part of the statement I was referring to. It was the following part:

I notice you have added the qualifier 'any reasonable level.' now that I have responded to your earlier statement.

It still means the same thing. See the above video where neither martial artist could fight from their back. "Little to no training" and "on any reasonable level" are interchangeable in that regard.

 

[RTKDCMB]

It still means the same thing. See the above video where neither martial artist could fight from their back. "Little to no training" and "on any reasonable level" are interchangeable in that regard.

So you have gone from 'little or no training from an inferior position' generally to 'little or no training from an inferior position' specifically referring to ground fighting?

 

[Phobius]

It still means the same thing. See the above video where neither martial artist could fight from their back. "Little to no training" and "on any reasonable level" are interchangeable in that regard.

So YouTube is your source of proof? Second are you surprised some people do not train ground fighting in a stand up art?

Finally a lot of WC has basic training on ground fighting but some sifus have reasons whether it being below their standard to roll on the floor, too old to want to train on ground or simply believe in traditional approach where ground was considered anart behind closed door in private not for secrecy but because it was dishonor to be seen rolling on ground like a dog.

Problem is that basic ground fighting is not near good enough anyway if faced with grappler. Which is why you can train both WC and BJJ. My sifu practically insist that we get quite a bit of training in GJJ for self defense purpose.

BJJ has the same issue in the US. No gun practice on how to shoot from standing or kneeling position. After all that is very possible self defense situation.

 

[Ironbear24]

And I was correcting that lack of knowledge. Is there a problem with that?

You come off more as offended than trying to correct lack of knowledge.

 

[sgraves]

Um, just because Japanese JJ has standing arm bars and wrist locks doesn't mean that Bjj doesn't contain those as well. Where do you think the roots of Bjj come from?

BTW, how much ground grappling is in traditional Japanese Jujtusu?

I know where bjj came from im not questioning that but what im saying is that bjj is a 95 percent ground art I wouldn't consider it to be a art that highlights both situations equally

 

[sgraves]

I don't believe that Graves was saying that Bjj is garbage, he was saying that Bjj has no standup.

It's the equivalent of saying that TKD has no punches.

I would never say bjj was garbage not at all im saying just the opposite as a person that trained in striking martial arts most of my training life I couldn't stand bjj cause it took me longer to pick it up but now I like it and have the upmost respect for it but ill be a stand up martial artist til the day I die and coming from that stand point you could never tell me that its transcends both it wonders in that realm a very little bit but I wouldn't couldn't bjj something that has both

 

[Hanzou]

1. So YouTube is your source of proof? 2. Second are you surprised some people do not train ground fighting in a stand up art?

1. Is the conclusion reached from that YT video factual or not?

2. At this point in the evolution of martial arts, yes.

Finally a lot of WC has basic training on ground fighting

Do you have some examples that you could show me? Further, can you confirm that they're native to Wing Chun and not an add-on some sifu attached to WC in order to stem the MMA fad? I'd be very interested in seeing them. Hopefully its not like some other TMA ground fighting that has been posted earlier on these forums.

but some sighs have reasons whether it being below their standard to roll on the floor, too old to want to train on ground or simply believe in traditional approach where ground was considered apart behind closed door in private not for secrecy but because it was dishonor to be seen rolling on ground like a dog.

Hopefully you recognize that all of those reasons are outright nonsense.

Problem is that basic ground fighting is not near good enough anyway if faced with grappler. Which is why you can train both WC and BJJ. My sifu practically insist that we get quite a bit of training in GJJ for self defense purpose.

Good.

BJJ has the same issue in the US. No gun practice on how to shoot from standing or kneeling position. After all that is very possible self defense situation.

There's a stark difference between not teaching ground fighting in a hand to hand fighting system, and not teaching how to shoot a gun in a MA school dedicated to hand to hand fighting. There's some pretty good reasons not to teach shooting in a Bjj gym. There's very little reason not to teach ground fighting in a MA school.

 

[Hanzou]

You come off more as offended than trying to correct lack of knowledge.

Well yes, just like a TKD practitioner would be offended if someone said that TKD practitioners only know how to throw kicks.

I know where bjj came from I'm not questioning that but what I'm saying is that bjj is a 95 percent ground art I wouldn't consider it to be a art that highlights both situations equally

Yeah, wrong again.

 

[sgraves]

Well yes, just like a TKD practitioner would be offended if someone said that TKD practitioners only know how to throw kicks.



Yeah, wrong again.

so you are saying bjj is a standing art as well

 

[Hanzou]

so you are saying bjj is a standing art as well

You have to be standing in order to take someone to the ground.

How do you think a Jiujiteiro is capable of taking down a standing opponent? Magic?

 

[Ironbear24]

Well yes, just like a TKD practitioner would be offended if someone said that TKD practitioners only know how to throw kicks.

Then by your logic should I be offended everytime you say karate has no grappling? Literally every form of karate I have been to has taught grappling along with striking. They focus more on striking but that does not mean it has 0 grappling.

 

[sgraves]

You have to be standing in order to take someone to the ground.[/QUOT
key word ground the objective is to take a person to the ground whether to be on top or bottom getting on the ground is key you can say the same thing about muay thai tkd or boxing which are considered standing arts

 

[Hanzou]

Then by your logic should I be offended everytime you say karate has no grappling? Literally every form of karate I have been to has taught grappling along with striking. They focus more on striking but that does not mean it has 0 grappling.

You mean stuff like this?

I don't consider that "grappling" so feel free to be offended.

 

[sgraves]

You have to be standing in order to take someone to the ground.

How do you think a Jiujiteiro is capable of taking down a standing opponent? Magic?

key word ground the objective is to take a person to the ground whether to be on top or bottom getting on the ground is key you can say the same thing about muay thai tkd or boxing which are considered standing arts

 

[Hanzou]

key word ground the objective is to take a person to the ground whether to be on top or bottom getting on the ground is key....

Judo has the same objective. Is Judo not a standing art?

 

[Ironbear24]

Here is an easy way to solve this. In bjj where are you at most of the time?

 

[sgraves]

Judo has the same objective. Is Judo not a standing art?

Judo has the same objective. Is Judo not a standing art?

its considered a standing art because its tossing or throwing the form of combat is throwing or tossing not rolling around on the ground