Why do people think grappling arts always beat striking arts?

[Ironbear24]

Watch out folks the mafia is here.

 

[Hanzou]

Wrestling, Judo, are both great and are not bjj.

Actually aspects of Judo and wrestling are both contained within Bjj.

Bjj itself is a combination of catch wrestling, Judo, and street fighting.

Anyway, feel free to locate a Current MMA fighter with zero Bjj training.

 

[Ironbear24]

Anyway, feel free to locate a MMA fighter with zero Bjj training.

Already done it in the past when you asked me this before.

Actually aspects of Judo and wrestling are both contained within Bjj.

Bjj itself is a combination of catch wrestling, Judo, and street fighting.

That doesn't mean when you are doing Judo or wrestling you are doing bjj. It's more like the opposite.

Also why is MMA always coming up? MMA is not the end all be all to martial arts.

 

[Kickboxer101]

Anyway, feel free to locate a Current MMA fighter with zero Bjj training.

Connor mcgreggor well it looked like it in his last fight lol

 

[drop bear]

Actually aspects of Judo and wrestling are both contained within Bjj.

Bjj itself is a combination of catch wrestling, Judo, and street fighting.

Anyway, feel free to locate a Current MMA fighter with zero Bjj training.

Would that also apply if we looked at wins by submissions?

The reasoning to train bjj for mma is to defend it. The reason to train wrestling is because it is easier to sit on a guy and bash them than to submit them.

My coach trains bjj. But is not a bjj guy. I think he may be a blue belt and that is just to save embarrassing black belts in other clubs.

So the idea that bjj is a foundation of mma success is not really true.


Same as to say mma guys do boxing but are not boxers in the sense that they have taken that anywhere.

There is a move by elite level athletes to cross train. This includes bjj guys.

 

[Hanzou]

Already done it in the past when you asked me this before.

Uh where?

Also why is MMA always coming up? MMA is not the end all be all to martial arts.

MMA was what me and Phobius was talking about. I don't know why you decided to jump into the conversation.

 

[Hanzou]

So the idea that bjj is a foundation of mma success is not really true.

If it's acknowledged that you're not going to get far in MMA without jiujitsu, wouldn't that indicate that is a foundation of success in MMA?

 

[Ironbear24]

Uh where?

Sorry but if you expect me to dig through months of my old posts I am not going to do that. If you really are interested you can do that. They are here somewhere.

 

[drop bear]

If it's acknowledged that you're not going to get far in MMA without jiujitsu, wouldn't that indicate that is a foundation of success in MMA?

Not really. You don't have to be a black belt or champion bjjer in it. But you do have to be exposed to it.

Exactly like your bjj is made better by doing wrestling or judo. But they are not foundations of bjj.

This is the lockdown series of submission wrestling. And bjj schools represent but do not dominate.
2015 Gym Rankings » Submission Grappling Series

 

[drop bear]

Mabye better to say bjj like sparring or cardio is a vital drill for mma.

 

[Hanzou]

Not really. You don't have to be a black belt or champion bjjer in it. But you do have to be exposed to it.

Well that isn't what I was saying. What I was saying is that it's unheard of for a pro MMA fighter to enter the sport without Bjj training. That sort of indicates that Bjj is needed for success in the sport.

Exactly like your bjj is made better by doing wrestling or judo. But they are not foundations of bjj.

Doesn't that go both ways though? Judokas, wrestlers, and Jiujitieros get their skills enhanced by cross training. Heck it's getting to the point now where Bjj schools are simply becoming grappling hubs where all forms of grappling are getting mashed together.

Like Steve mentioned earlier; If there were competent WC grappling we (the Bjj community) would happily steal it and incorporate it into our system.

 

[Ironbear24]

What would you be stealing really? There are no patents on how to move and use your body to your advantage.

 

[drop bear]

Well that isn't what I was saying. What I was saying is that it's unheard of for a pro MMA fighter to enter the sport without Bjj training. That sort of indicates that Bjj is needed for success in the sport.



Doesn't that go both ways though? Judokas, wrestlers, and Jiujitieros get their skills enhanced by cross training. Heck it's getting to the point now where Bjj schools are simply becoming grappling hubs where all forms of grappling are getting mashed together.

Like Steve mentioned earlier; If there were competent WC grappling we'd (the Bjj community) would happily steal it and incorporate it into our system.

Yes and basically yes.

And we have stolen WC concepts for stand up and grappling and due to the training atmosphere made them better.

Better? people say getting all in a huff.

Yes. We gave the concepts to top fighters who threw them at other top fighters who then handed us down a version that works.

 

[Ironbear24]

I'll give you two fighters who are very good with no bjj that are some of my favorites. Mirko filipovic and Cung Le. There you have Tae Kwon Do from Mirko and Sanshou and Tae Kwon Do and Wrestling from Cung Le.

 

[Hanzou]

This is the lockdown series of submission wrestling. And bjj schools represent but do not dominate.
2015 Gym Rankings » Submission Grappling Series

This came from the top school on the list;

With great coaches offering a variety of training sessions – MMA, Brazilian Jiu Jitsu, Circuit to name a few – Fightcross brings an exciting and team orientated way of keeping fit and strong that caters to the everyday person’s life and routine. People of professions ranging from office workers, trades, students, parents to name a few are all made to feel welcome, comfortable, encouraged and challenged in order to help them reach their personal goals on their own terms.

With that said, with the present state of grappling, I don't really expect pure Bjj schools to dominate. I fully recognize that a Bjj white belt with a strong wrestling or Judo background has a significant advantage over a Bjj white belt with zero grappling history.

I also recognize that there are those within the grappling community who would prefer to decrease Bjj's influence in modern grappling for a variety of reasons.

 

[Hanzou]

I'll give you two fighters who are very good with no bjj that are some of my favorites. Mirko filipovic and Cung Le. There you have Tae Kwon Do from Mirko and Sanshou and Tae Kwon Do and Wrestling from Cung Le.

Le is a Bjj blue belt.

Cung Le - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Give me a minute on Mirko.

What would you be stealing really? There are no patents on how to move and use your body to your advantage.

A grappling innovation not present in current grappling systems. Something like Half Guard or the leg lock entries of Masakazu Imanari.

 

[Ironbear24]

Le is a Bjj blue belt.

Cung Le - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Give me a minute on Mirko.

Blue belt? Blue belt is barely a step above white.

 

[Hanzou]

Blue belt? Blue belt is barely a step above white.

Uh, theres four stripes/ranks in white belt before you reach blue.

In some Bjj schools, a Bjj blue belt is expected to be capable of holding their own against black belts in other styles.

 

[Ironbear24]

Uh, theres four stripes/ranks in white belt before you reach blue.

Well I just earned more respect in my sifu for having a blue belt in Gracie jiu jitsu.

Shows how much I know about bjj.

 

[Skullpunch]

Give me a minute on Mirko.

Lived with Fabricio Werdum during his run in PRIDE, they trained together everyday with Werdum helping him with his bjj and Mirko helping Werdum with his striking. Don't know if Werdum ever bothered with giving him belts of any kind tho.