Why do Japanese arts use the Japanese language?

[jobo]

"Socially accepted" and "culturally acceptable" are not the same thing.... and I would argue that very few Americans celebrate the usage of atomic weaponry. So no, your comments fail in the face of actually understanding these terms. As far as why the Americans are the only ones who have used nuclear weapons, well.... at the time, they were the only ones who had developed them to the point that they were feasible... and a strong argument could be made that the Japanese were not going to surrender unless absolutely forced into it by an overwhelming reason, and, in that sense, the usage and deployment potentially brought the Pacific War to an end much sooner than would have happened, leading to many lives being saved at the expense of the victims of the Enola Gay and Bockscar's payloads. It's not celebrated as a positive action in many circles, though, and the decision would have been deeply agonising for Truman and all involved.

But seriously, this is all completely besides the point of this thread... you've gone off on a tangent that is ludicrous, and simply shows how little you grasp the concepts here. I recommend you stop embarrassing yourself, and leave it at this.

i've not gone off at a tangent, you brought america and atomic bombs in to the discussion..

wheeling out all the old justifications, that didn't have much validity in the first place and non at all now, only shows the culture hasn't changed as much as i might hope

governments certainly democratic governments can only do that which is culturally acceptable, if you want to call that socially acceptable rather than culturally acceptable feel free they are the same thing.

what is accepted by a society is the same as what that society is culturally prepared to accept

 

[geezer]

....wheeling out all the old justifications, that didn't have much validity in the first place and non at all now, only shows the culture hasn't changed as much as i might hope

Not sure how Chris's "wheeling out all the old justifications..." shows that we Americans haven't changed. Not that we have or anything... but still, Chris is an Aussie. So he's viewing America from afar. And Japan from a-near. If that's even a word.

 

[jobo]

Not sure how Chris's "wheeling out all the old justifications..." shows that we Americans haven't changed. Not that we have or anything... but still, Chris is an Aussie. So he's viewing America from afar. And Japan from a-near. If that's even a word.

well that makes it somehow worse

 

[Gerry Seymour]

well pick another point of Japanese pre ww2 history and we can discuss that, how far back do you want to go ?

The confirmation bias is strong in this one.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

In US, if your Karate school requires you to knee down in front of a Japanese flag (on the wall) and touch your head on the floor, will you do it?

It matters not to me.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

I can understand that attitude... of course, the argument I would make there is... learn. An unspoken rule for Japanese arts is to endeavour to understand as many aspects, if not all, as possible... including the language used, and the insights the names and terminology used give. To a great degree, an argument can be made that, if you're not going into those details, then you're not really engaging in the study of a Japanese martial art... instead, it's just a series of actions... if that's all you want, cool. But it's quite a bit removed from the real study (in this approach).

That’s probably overstated, but not entirely inaccurate. What I study isn’t actually a Japanese MA. It’s the American expression (derivation?) of a Japanese MA. The principles and practices were adjusted to American culture when the art came over.
However, since the dojo in Hokkaido actually started the process of using English terminology, the Japanese names of techniques apparently are not an integral part of the art.

 

[Buka]

In US, if your Karate school requires you to knee down in front of a Japanese flag (on the wall) and touch your head on the floor, will you do it?

Key word in your question, at least for me is "your" karate school. If it's mine, yeah, sure okay. Especially since there would always be a United States flag beside it. Always.

If it's a friend's school I'd do it out of respect. Same thing if it was a stranger's school, out of respect and protocol.

I really don't like bowing or saluting any foreign flag without our flag next to it.

 

[pdg]

them bad ol' Romans killled Jesus

Pics or it didn't happen.

 

[hoshin1600]

i can actually see Little Boy being an extension of American culture. we are all about instant gratification, very impatient and tend to run roughshod over others.

 

[geezer]

i can actually see Little Boy being an extension of American culture. we are all about instant gratification, very impatient and tend to run roughshod over others.

Huh? I'm reading this drinking my instant coffee, and wondering what my being impatient and craving instant gratification has to do with dropping the A-bomb.

 

[hoshin1600]

Huh? I'm reading this drinking my instant coffee, and wondering what my being impatient and craving instant gratification has to do with dropping the A-bomb.

Of course I was being tongue in cheek, but I was making an anology comparison of the instant wiping a city off the map with your instant coffee. We Americans don't have time for all that storming the shores and rolling tanks, you know all that marching the troops......one little boom ..instant... while I'm sitting on the other side of the ocean drinking coffee.

 

[Mitlov]

Of course I was being tongue in cheek, but I was making an anology comparison of the instant wiping a city off the map with your instant coffee. We Americans don't have time for all that storming the shores and rolling tanks, you know all that marching the troops......one little boom ..instant... while I'm sitting on the other side of the ocean drinking coffee.

I'm not sure the Marines who fought on Guadalcanal, Peleliu, and Iwo Jima would agree with that summary of the fighting in the Pacific Theater.

 

[geezer]

I'm not sure the Marines who fought on Guadalcanal, Peleliu, and Iwo Jima would agree with that summary of the fighting in the Pacific Theater.

...Or those scientists like Oppenheimer who worked day and night on the Manhattan Project, knowing that if they didn’t get there first, ...well, did anyone watch “The Man in the High Castle”?

 

[jobo]

...Or those scientists like Oppenheimer who worked day and night on the Manhattan Project, knowing that if they didn’t get there first, ...well, did anyone watch “The Man in the High Castle”?

well that doesn't hold up to scutany, the Germans weren't even close to having a nuclear bombs, they effectively gave up any serious attempt to make one in 1941 , d coding to concentrate resources on conventual weapons.

in fact the Americans didn't have one either when the war in Europe finished, so it was developed just to bomb Japan, who were not even trying to make one, so the suggestion they had to get there first is nonsense

 

[geezer]

...so the suggestion they had to get there first is nonsense

Of course you are correct about the Germans not being close to having an A-Bomb. But in 1942 when the United States, Canada and the U.K. initiated the project, they could not know this. They did know that there was a real danger that the war could be lost. So what’s your point?

 

[jobo]

Of course you are correct about the Germans not being close to having an A-Bomb. But in 1942 when the United States, Canada and the U.K. initiated the project, they could not know this. They did know that there was a real danger that the war could be lost. So what’s your point?

I suspect with the amount of intelligence they had they had a good idea, but my point is that even if they believed they were in a race with the germans, then must have known that this race was over when the germans imploded and surrendered. but they carried on developing the bomb, JUST to drop on Japan. who nobody thought had an a bòmb

just to be clear, they didn't have a bomb, when Germany surrender, it was built solely for japan, what did oppenhiemer think he was doing then ??

 

[hoshin1600]

 

[geezer]

...it was built solely for japan, what did oppenhiemer think he was doing then ??

Maybe he and his colleagues thought they were working on something that would put an end to the war, and be a deterrent to others that would come after?

I’m not a historian. If you want to know what those guys were thinking, you research it. The decision to drop the bomb ...twice, is subject of legitimate debate. The making of the bomb ...by someone, was inevitable. Personally, I’m glad it was the Anglo allies, not the Axis, and not the Soviets.

Now maybe we can get back to the OP???

 

[Mitlov]

well that doesn't hold up to scutany, the Germans weren't even close to having a nuclear bombs, they effectively gave up any serious attempt to make one in 1941 , d coding to concentrate resources on conventual weapons.

in fact the Americans didn't have one either when the war in Europe finished, so it was developed just to bomb Japan, who were not even trying to make one, so the suggestion they had to get there first is nonsense

It was most of the way through development when Germany surrendered. It was developed for use against either.

As for its use atheist Japan, setting aside whatever peoples' personal motivations were, given our tactics and technology of the time, a ground invasion of Japan would have killed even more civilians than the atomic bombings did. Keep in mind that during the invasion of Okinawa, somewhere between 15% and 50% of the island's civilian population was killed (as well as 15,000 American combatants and 100,000 Japanese combatants).

Battle of Okinawa - Wikipedia

That does not make targeting civilians morally okay. By 21st standards, the atomic bombings of cities are an atrocity. But the question of "if not this, than what" is a hard one, and eliminates this characterization that it was an act of lazy, comfortable Americans.

 

[jobo]

Maybe he and his colleagues thought they were working on something that would put an end to the war, and be a deterrent to others that would come after?

I’m not a historian. If you want to know what those guys were thinking, you research it. The decision to drop the bomb ...twice, is subject of legitimate debate. The making of the bomb ...by someone, was inevitable. Personally, I’m glad it was the Anglo allies, not the Axis, and not the Soviets.

Now maybe we can get back to the OP???

but you were TELLING me what he was thinking, you know when he was slaving away thinking "got to beat the germans, oh we did great "