Who's Who in Modern Arnis?

[arnisador]

Originally posted by Renegade
When there are losses like this sometimes we must remeber that tempers may be running a little high.

Yes. I have not meant to imply anything negative about Mr. Worden, for example. In saying that Progressive's statements were exaggerated I meant nothing more than that--I have no doubt that they are correct in the large but I question the details. As with the CQC/CQB issue mentioned, it may be at least in part a language issue.

Some times a question is just a question.

Absolutely--yes. The point about ignorance remains well taken.

 

[Bob Hubbard]

A few points:

1- Banning - Unless you're a major PITA, or other disruptive influence, I'd prefer not to ban anyone. It makes for a represive scene, and I'd personally prefer to avoid it. Cthulhu's right...I -can- do anything I want....that doesn't mean I will. My concern is the stability and long term growth of Martial Talk.

2- RMA - Ditto.

3-

4. The tone of the post from the Administrator was in question. Personally, I wish there was better Moderation on ALOT of Internet Forums instead of allowing trolls to destroy them! I think that particular action was a bit heavy.

My admin style - I try to not butt in too much. Most of you folks are much more versed in the MA world than I. I try to be a bit more, laid back. Chalk part of this issue up to a few misunderstandings, and too little sleep. This forum is special, and several of us here have put alot of effort into making it a friendly, growing place. I don't wish to see the hard work thats gone into it destroyed. I'm not of the mindset to act the dictator role. The fact that several individuals recently have done the "I dont know if Im gonna get banned for this.." bit has put us on guard. Its ok to be politically incorrect here....just not a PITA. Any questions on posts, or concerns PM me and I'm more than willing to advise ways to minimize the 'flare ups'. Controversy is good....open warfare is bad.

4- Datu Worden's camps - Please post a schedule when available into the apropriate forums, and on the calander if you could please.

5- Locking this thread - Not yet. no fefe had a valid observation.

6- the other non-answered issues - Thats for y'all to work out, civilly.

7- me - if -anyone- has an issue with how this board is run, please feel free to email, pm or call me and we can discuss it. I'd prefer the email method, as in most cases its a LD call, and I'm rarely in the office as of late. You can also post your suggestions on improvements on our Support Forum. I'm always open to ways to make us better.

Peace.

:asian:

 

[Don Rearic]

That's very even-handed and more than fair. Thank you.

On a personal level, I detest Bulletin Board Trolls myself. They disrupt and in general, cause a bad scene.

 

[Don Rearic]

Originally posted by Red Blade
Since you guys brought it up,
Who was his JKD instructor and what level of certification does he have?

Someone cited Jesse Glover and I've spoken with Datu Worden about Mr. Glover, maybe more properly, Sifu Glover. One of Bruce Lee's first students, if not the first student of Bruce Lee.

I think that alone is a certification...itself. No one says that man is not skilled.

I honestly don't know if Mr. Glover is certified by Guro Inosanto or not, I have no knowledge of any of that. I also think that he is quite possibly beyond anything that would resemble certification.

And that is said with respect to all parties involved.

 

[Cthulhu]

Lee himself only ever certified three people as JKD instructors:

1) Taky Kimura
2) James Lee
3) Dan Inosanto

Last I heard (and it was some time ago), Glover taught, but he didn't use the name JKD. This is understandable, as he was taught a modified form of Wing Chun. I don't even think Jun Fan kickboxing/gung fu had been introduced yet. That being said, if someone is to be certified in JKD by Glover, then Glover himself would have had to have been certified by one of the three mentioned above, or someone of that lineage. This is entirely probable, but I haven't seen anything confirming this yet.

This has no bearing on Glover's skill as a martial artist. This is only to clarify JKD certification. I can't remember if Glover gave a name to what he taught. I think DeMile was teaching what he called the 'Tao of Wing Chun Do' or something like that. I don't think Glover used a name like that, though. From what little I've seen of Glover and his martial art, he seems to be very skilled and a good teacher, so there is no question of his ability.

On a separate note, I seem to remember that quite some time ago, Dan Inosanto and Taky Kimura got together to rank themselves in JKD. I think Taky was placed at 7th rank and Inosanto at 6th. The 8th rank (the highest) is forever reserved for Lee. I am always amazed by Inosanto's humility. After all he has done for JKD, and as famous as he is as a JKD instructor, he always considers Kimura his senior in JKD.

Cthulhu

 

[arnisador]

Originally posted by Cthulhu
On a separate note, I seem to remember that quite some time ago, Dan Inosanto and Taky Kimura got together to rank themselves in JKD. I think Taky was placed at 7th rank and Inosanto at 6th. The 8th rank (the highest) is forever reserved for Lee.

Can you say more about this? I hadn't heard it before.

 

[Don Rearic]

Originally posted by Cthulhu
Lee himself only ever certified three people as JKD instructors:

1) Taky Kimura
2) James Lee
3) Dan Inosanto

On a separate note, I seem to remember that quite some time ago, Dan Inosanto and Taky Kimura got together to rank themselves in JKD. I think Taky was placed at 7th rank and Inosanto at 6th. The 8th rank (the highest) is forever reserved for Lee. I am always amazed by Inosanto's humility. After all he has done for JKD, and as famous as he is as a JKD instructor, he always considers Kimura his senior in JKD.

Cthulhu

Indeed. Valuable observations. There is some association or possibly more, from Mr. [Sifu] Taky Kimura and Datu Worden as well, as far as I know. Things tend to get a bit confusing as I mentioned before. I guess I have to make another phone call tomorrow!

 

[Cthulhu]

Arnisador,

Aw crap...you had to go and ask that, didn't you? I think IFAJKD may have mentioned it here some time back, but my memory is never to be trusted. If I feel crazy enough, I'll search through his posts to see. IFAJKD is the only certified JKD instructor (under Vunak, which means Inosanto lineage) that I know of on this board, so I defer to him in JKD matters.

Cthulhu

 

[Don Rearic]

This might answer some questions although it is not an interview geared specifically to the questions raised in this thread.

 

[Pappy Geo]

Are we all not Brothers in the same art? Its like siblings spatting and posturing. Why don't we take this back to something useful and/or educational? If you don't choose to believe the information posted previously, that is your choice and lets leave it at that. I guess the intent was to follow up with information on Datu Worden as some of you requested. If I offended anybody please accept my apology. There is a lot of additional information us Northwest Coast brothers can pass on about modern Arnis in this area. What is awkward is not knowing who you are conversing with? I believe I have figured out who Datu Hartman is but I my sure about some of the others.

Peace Brothers,

Lets go forward in an informative manner.

The snow storm must be really hell to deal with! Be safe

Pappy Geo

 

[Don Rearic]

When I watched the news tonight, these fellows looked like they were really being pounded by the snow. :rofl:

 

[Bob Hubbard]

<offtopic>

Don,
It's like Hoth up here....but worse. The AT-AT's said its just too much for em..

I got 7ft in the drive way...was 2/3 done last night, and this morning it was like we did nothing....its hell, only colder.

</offtopic>

:asian:

 

[Bob Hubbard]

Re: Datu's.

I did a quick look at that link. (will reread when heads clearer).
It mentioned there were 3 Datus. Earlier I saw a list (I think) of 6 or so.

How many are there, who are they, and what are their areas of experience? (just looking for a list, not a critique)

Dankes!
:asian:

 

[Bob]

Jesse Glover refers to his art as "Non classical Wing Chun"
I would also like to comment on what FeFe said regarding Datu Worden, I have been with Datu Worden for 13 years and never inquired about a rank. I accepted him as instructor because of his ability, teaching skills and the obvious love he put into his art. I have noticed the differences between Datu Worden and other Modern Arnis instructors in the way they move, and the emphasize they put on certain lesson they what you to learn and carry with you, but overall the base techinque is Arnis.
Thanks
Bob

 

[no fefe]

Well the camp is held every Labor Day weekend.
There is some information about last years camp at:
http://www.kellyworden.com/camp2000/camp2001.html

When I get more info then I will post it on the calendar as requested.

RK

 

[Don Rearic]

Originally posted by Kaith Rustaz
Re: Datu's.

I did a quick look at that link. (will reread when heads clearer).
It mentioned there were 3 Datus. Earlier I saw a list (I think) of 6 or so.

How many are there, who are they, and what are their areas of experience? (just looking for a list, not a critique)

That would be Datu Shishir Inocallo, Datu Kelly Worden and the third I'm not sure of. I know the name, just cannot think of it.

I think it is proper to say at this time, just so no confusion and bad feelings might occur of that particular interview...

That was an interview that appeared in a Paladin Press Catalog. Because of the nature of things, the actual filming-footage and or associated interviews, etc., that may have taken place a year or two earlier than the debut of the media being presented. So, the interview and statements made in same might be quite old.

 

[arnisador]

Originally posted by Pappy Geo
Why don't we take this back to something useful and/or educational? If you don't choose to believe the information posted previously, that is your choice and lets leave it at that. I guess the intent was to follow up with information on Datu Worden as some of you requested.

The information on Mr. Worden has been helpful and it is appreciated. Many of us just didn't know that much about his Modern Arnis connection other than the fact that it existed.

If I offended anybody please accept my apology.

I too apologize for having given offense. As Mr. Hartman said, we all feel the loss of the Professor and that makes this a difficult time. Watching the confusion in the IMAFs, MARPPIO, etc. doesn't help.

What is awkward is not knowing who you are conversing with? I believe I have figured out who Datu Hartman is but I my sure about some of the others.

Surely the same is true of you to an extent, Pappy Geo! Such is the nature of anonymity on the Internet. But yes, Renegade is Mr. Hartman, and Mr. Hartman's biographical information is available here:
http://www.wmarnis.com/resume.html
I am one of Mr. Hartman's black belt students; more information about Mr. Hartman and myself is available near the bottom of this page:
http://www.martialtalk.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=497&perpage=15&pagenumber=3
The person posting as Mao is a member of the IMAF, Inc. Board of Directors (but not the Steering Committee):
http://www.modernarnis.net/about/board.shtml
We also have on this board Prof. Presas' son Demetrio Presas who posts as DPRESAS:
http://www.modernarnis.com/bio_demetrio.htm
I hope this helps!

 

[arnisador]

Originally posted by no fefe
There is some information about last years camp at:
http://www.kellyworden.com/camp2000/camp2001.html

Thanks! Pricey, but it does include room and board. I note from that page:

Kelly Worden
Endorsed by Remy Presas as Senior Blade Master of Modern Arnis

There are more titles out there than I realized! As has been said of Ed Parker, the Professor was creating a modern and I believe American art (Filipino-American, if you prefer) and was intentionally making new traditions as he went along.

 

[arnisador]

Originally posted by Kaith Rustaz
It mentioned there were 3 Datus. Earlier I saw a list (I think) of 6 or so.

How many are there, who are they, and what are their areas of experience? (just looking for a list, not a critique)

Mr. Hartman addressed this earlier in this very forum:
http://www.martialtalk.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=497&pagenumber=1

Shishiar Inacallo-Canada
Kelly Worden-USA
Ric Jornales-USA
David Hoffman-USA currently UK
Dieter Knuttel-Germany
Tim Hartman (myself)-USA

I believe that this list is in chronological order. Note that Mr. Jornales is a Modern Arnis datu but is not a Modern Arnis practitioner. (Mr. Hartman will surely correct me if he feels that I am mistaken on this.) I do not know if the IMAFs or MARPPIO recognize these titles, but these are the ones granted by the Professor.

 

[Don Rearic]

I just had a wonderful conversation with Datu Kelly, as they always tend to be...talk about a wealth of information. Whew...

So, I am able to list a few other things that people have been wondering about...

There were more JKD links than Jesse Glover and Taky Kimura as well...there was a longtime friendship with Guro Ted "Lucky" Lucaylucay, who has also passed on some time ago [RIP] as well as a connection with Guro Sonny Umpad, a Master in his own System of Corto Cadena and much more...many different links.

It really is awesome stuff to hear and to try to comprehend at times.

I mentioned a few days ago that more information is coming, this is tricky but I can now tell you what that will be and the medium(s) of precisely how it will be released to the Public.

I've been given the responsibility of a word-for-word transcription of the last recorded Interview with Professor Remy Presas on Datu Kelly Worden's Radio Show. This is much more of an honor than a responsibility, but I do have to take my time and be 100% accurate. This will appear in the future, online, in a format that is either going to be Streaming Audio or a download format.

It will also appear in Black Belt Magazine in the future. That's a high honor indeed.

On the portion of tape that I have heard, Professor Presas lists four (4) Datu; Shishiar Inacallo, Kelly Worden, Dieter Knuttel and David Hoffman. I have not heard all of the tape(s) yet but Professor Presas clearly stated that Datu Kelly Worden is the highest ranked Datu in the United States. There is going to be more of that later as the Professor had a very high opinion of Datu Kelly Worden.

I'm not saying this to stir a flame festival, I still have to review the material in its entirety.

I also asked Datu Worden what his last, Certified Rank on Paper was in Modern Arnis and he informed me that would be 6th Degree Black Belt, awarded around 1991.

On the taped excerpts I have listened to so far, Professor speaks of Espada y Daga and many other things, Tapi-Tapi and so much more. It was such an honor to hear his voice...given the circumstances.

Guro Roland Dantes has been mentioned in this or the other thread. I cannot remember who it was that was wondering what his Rank or Connection mattered in the current question(s) regarding Datu Worden...

There is a direct link between Professor Presas and Roland Dantes, to say the least, the Professor during the Interview referring back to Mr. Dantes several times and referring to him as his "good" or "close" friend...Professor spoke of the Title of Datu, proper and referred back to Mr. Dantes, etc. It is the last, valuable insight of a great man.

Most importantly to many who love these Arts, all FMAs, Professor Presas had a clear message to Filipino People that the American People were taking their Culture and that the Filipino People must be active and become involved and reverse that. That is paraphrasing.

I'm NOT saying that the Professor claimed Americans were stealing their culture, I think he was speaking about a lackadaisical attitude that has allowed this. He wanted the control of the Arts to be in a certain place. Datu Worden has told me many times that it is the Art of the Filipino People and it should be in their control, I agree with that. It is not his intention to do anything else, as per the wishes of Professor Presas.

Please understand this is all still developing, but you will eventually be able to read the transcripts and even better, you will be able to hear them one day soon. You know how magazines are and whatnot...

With Respect,

Don