Who's Who in Modern Arnis?

[Bob Hubbard]

Don,
I'm not "quelling" anyone. I'm seeing a heat level rise, and seeking to prevent a blow up that requires more drastic action.

I'm saying, if you, or -ANYONE- feels the need to get all Hot about it, take it private. Maybe other forums are more willing to serve as battlegrounds and political posturing, but not this one.

On Datu Worden - I do not know the man, nor do I know his followers. I'm happy to see a group of them here. The more the merrier.

There was a question on identity - I simply identified myself.

On my wording - perhaps I could have been a bit more tactful. I'm sorry. I am majorly exhausted from fighting a losing battle against nature. That, combined with several emails and phone calls about problems here contributed to a more reactive posting.

On my message: In the past, we have had 1 situation surrounding the MA succession issue that had resulted in 1 banned user, based on threats. I do not want a repeat of that. There has been a bit of concern over the perception of heat growing surrounding a few of the folks involved in this thread perhaps. My intent is to throw a little water on the hot areas, before things go boom.

Is this site factional? Yes. And grows more so as each organizations participation grows.

My primary 2 concerns are the smooth functioning of this site, and its growing usefulness to the martial arts community as a whole.

On the phone call lease post the phone number...a toll free one preferred.

On banning someone:

Now, you can most certainly ban me from this site for saying that, people can make a value judgment on that action if you choose to do so.

I take this comment of yours as a challenge. There seem to be a few people here who think that if they say something “politically incorrect” that we will kick em off this board. We do not ban without cause. We have guidelines on why we would do so. You can disagree with me, argue with me, go against the “norm” here etc. I think a little controversy is good, as it creates new interest and we gain new members with more diverse experience. That’s not a reason to silence you, or anyone. All it does is make me a censor. Play within our rules, and you're welcome here. You don't like them, then you do not have to stay. Its a free site. As I've said many, many times, we welcome all for friendly discussion of martial topics.

If you (or anyone reading this) still have an issue with me, then please PM me and we can see if we can smooth it out. In the mean time, lets return this thread to its original intent.

 

[GouRonin]

Wooo! That's it Kaith! You and me at the little shop down the road from the Renegade's:erg: place! That's right baby! I challenge you to put your foot onto the brass rail and pony up! Oh man! there will be a quakin' and a shakin' baby! You're going down!

 

[Keil Randor]

Very interesting thread......

Someone wades in here, immediately starts defending someone, who shouldnt need defending, a few points are called into question, and the whole place is in an uproar. Now, you folks are practicially walking around waving banners and blowing, horns, screaming "Ban Me, I dare ya".

It seems that Durin's Bane has risen from the Shadow, yet this time is not so much spewing Fire, but Methane.

 

[Pappy Geo]

He is a true American Warrior!

He was a Special Forces Green Beret Team Leader taking his team into over 20 countries, some Covert and many combative.
He has seen the fat lady sing!

He has trained in martial Arts for over 20 years all across the world including much time in the Philipines. He came to us at NSI (Datu Worden) and apparently liked what he saw. He was in charge of the martial arts program for the SF 1st group at Fort Lewis. He had been searching for a combative arts instructor to teach his people and found it in his back yard! He was the man responsible for negotiating and having the CG approve the contract. He further arranged for the three star General in charge of all the Army's Unconvential Warfare to visit Datu Worden on the training site at Fort Lewis, watched us while Datu briefed him on the training and the reviewed the training manual

I was in Vietnam on a Coast Guard boat, Yea Don even the Coast guard goes to war and I know the terror, fear and adrenalin rushs
of war. But it is not he same as one on one, face to face, hand to hand combat! It is my honor to have him as a friend and part of my extended family! If he seems somewhat defensive that is because he is not accustomed to having is word or authority questioned.He knows what kind of combative arts works in a real life situation! Progressive is the real thing whereas most of the rest of us are wanna be's, including myself.

Not only is he a true American warrior, he is an American Hero.
Please be respectful of Progressive and honor his word.

Pappy Geo,

Unclassified

 

[Pappy Geo]

Whoops part of my posting is missing I have been refering to Progressive, sorry about that

 

[Cthulhu]

<mod hat/on>
Please, don't be so immature as to issue a challenge to be banned. If you are going to behave like that, then go to RMA.

It's very simple. Post civilly. Think before you hit that 'submit reply' button. One wrong phrasing can cause one heck of a big stink. We've already seen it once on this board, and frankly, I don't want to see it happen again. This goes to everybody, including myself.

I came here to get away from such inane bickering, like that found on RMA. This board has been a great place to network and share information. Many of the 'old-timers' (if you can call them that...the board isn't that old) have actually gotten together to train, chat, get drunk, etc.

Very simply put: if you cannot abide by the rules of the board, then you need to leave. If you do not listen to the admin (Kaith), you need to leave. If all you intend to do is cram your ideals down somebody else's throat, you need to leave. Whether this is willingly or because of a ban it up to you. Kaith and IFAJKD know that I have FAR more important things to worry about than playing babysitter to a bunch of rather pointless bickering. Play nice or get the hell out of our sandbox.

Sometimes, it's just better to agree to disagree and leave it at that.

<mod hat/off>

Cthulhu

 

[Datu Tim Hartman]

I don't know what to think. A group of Worden's warriors come on the formum and start accusing everyone of trash talking him. People have asked about his credencials and we hear that you can't put rank as an important factor. That I find particulaly funny as I'm a full time martial arts instrutor. I get asked that question all the time. I usually tell the person my rank, but now I'll change my tactics and just kick their *** and prove how tough I am.

I make a comment that based on the tapes that I've SEEN, his movement reminds me of JKD Kali.
Worden's site reads
Welcome to Kelly Worden's
Natural Spirit International
The Home of Renegade Jeet Kune Do

Datu Kelly S. Worden is one of the most sought after instructors worldwide. With over 30 years Martial Arts experience and the author of 18 internationally acclaimed instructional videos. Datu Worden's curriculum covers single stick Modern Arnis, close-quarter Kali, double stick Escrima, Kuntao - trapping, Combat Knife, double knife, Staff - Sibat, Defensive tactics, Renegade Jeet Kune Do, and much, much, more.

After reading this it would explain to me why some one else may come to the same conclusion.

When I say that CQC could stand for Close Quarter Combat, I'm told by the Special Forces person that I'm wrong and the Military doesn't use that acronym, yet it reads as plain as day on military sites that the Rangers (a SF group) train in it.

Then we here that certain members aren't used to being questioned which should excuse his comments. This doesn't seem to be a reasonable excuse for being rude. There is no reason that any members of this new group can't answer these questions in a civil manner. Then they dare to be banned from this forum.

This is not the best way to win people over to your cause! Don started things out well, but it didn't take long for things to deteriorate.

Generally I put more time into my posts, but since Christmas Eve we got 7 feet of snow here in Buffalo and I'm very tired of clearing my driveway several times a day!

P.S. Don, for the record, as founder of the Modern Arnis section on this website and the 1st and ONLY Datu here, I've bestowed the title of Grand Tuhon Inquisitor on Arnisador.






:samurai: :armed: :asian:

 

[Mao]

Hey Renegade,
You spelled "credentials" wrong. You must be Rocky trained.

 

[Datu Tim Hartman]

SHHHHHHHHHHHHHH! Don't tell anyone.

:asian:

 

[no fefe]

I think things are getting a little out of hand.

As far as rank is concerned the way we see it is (and I say this without making any ridiculous challenge) there are many people that hold a high rank (by the way I am not referring to anyone specific) but can't put it to practical use and if it can't be put to practical use then what is the point? I'm sure you all have seen these people and have seen these type of schools.


Robert K

 

[Datu Tim Hartman]

I agree. I've seen many paper dragons, but this does not make rank an invalid question or a reason to start an argument. It's just a question like on a job interview.

:asian:

 

[arnisador]

Originally posted by no fefe
I think things are getting a little out of hand.

I agree.

As far as rank is concerned the way we see it is (and I say this without making any ridiculous challenge) there are many people that hold a high rank (by the way I am not referring to anyone specific) but can't put it to practical use and if it can't be put to practical use then what is the point?

I agree.

What rank does Mr. Worden hold in Modern Arnis?

 

[Don Rearic]

I have to address three at once for certain comments...generic.

1. Startling, I honestly don't know what "RMA" is and from the sound of it, I probably don't want to know. I've joined several Forums in the past few years, does that stand for "Real Martial Arts" or something? I've joined and left some Forums in the past, I could even be registered there and just never posted in quite some time.

2. I think people are showing restraint, not really flying off of the handle and that's why I said what I did.

3. I don't think my post or the posts of others in the general conversation has "deteriorated" at all. I AM still in your sandbox and acting responsibly and respectfully.

4. The tone of the post from the Administrator was in question. Personally, I wish there was better Moderation on ALOT of Internet Forums instead of allowing trolls to destroy them! I think that particular action was a bit heavy.

5. Looking at #4, I have no desire nor intention to be involved in Little Boy Games about challenging people to death matches or threatening them physically at all. Never even hinted at that. I can understand if you have had a problem with that in the past. Just please remember, my modem is not made out of Kamagong, I can't really reach out and hit anyone with it, nor would I.

6. The term "CQC," Close Quarter(s) Combat is a tricky one. There is CQC, CQB "Close Quarter(s) Battle," and even CC, "Close Combat." It's quite likely that one group would scratch their head at having a term that is alien to them being used. I think it is proper to say that things are not so cut and dry when it comes to these terms. For example, Datu Hartman, Rangers are in the SpecOps Units, but they are not "SF." Special Forces are SF. It gets a bit nitpicky, but it's not my system either! There are alot of SF guys who wear "Ranger" tabs, for that Qualification as well, but they are different so I would not be surprised if some terminology was different as well.

I would like to go back to this statement that I made:

On the subject of calm discussion and of "calming down..."

What is quoted above with particular attention to italicized text, is fairly "in your face" and in a very real way, hinting that the Poster [Progessive] is lying at worst-or using hyperbole at best-to get a point of support for Datu Worden across to people.

That's not the case, anyone can choose to believe what they wish, however. Check it out before you hang a B.S. Title over it. If you cannot believe someone from the 1st SFG, then who will you believe? A Coast Guard Rep?

First of all, I would like to apologize about the Coast Guard crack! See, even I can make a mistake.

This is what originally drew a bit of fire, Gents. The remarks I spoke about were "in your face." Now...here is the problem as I see it.

We can in a very real way have a meaningful discussion, but the way I see it is...there was some fire there on both sides. Fire is fine, I understand you don't want a wild one. But there simply is no exaggeration on the part of "Progressive." It is what it is. I think early on I truthfully stated that I'm weary of seeing "SpecOps" associations with various Instructors. They throw it out like spaghetti and when it sticks, its done, you know what I mean? They use that as a foothold to gain notoriety.

Such is not the case with Datu Worden.

I don't understand where there is a resistance to accept these things unless someone does not want Datu Worden to be seen in that light. That's the truth as I see it. You can question things, absolutely. But when you more or less call someone a liar or hint at them being a liar and they get a bit hot under the collar, well... Some things carry with them an "inevitable result."

As for me daring or challenging you to ban me. You can take it the way I meant it or the way you wish to. Given the tone of the post, I figured that was what was coming next. [shrug]

[Edited minutes later for poor keystrokes leading to typos. ]

 

[Cthulhu]

1. RMA = rec.martialarts Martial arts newsgroup.
4. Kaith, as admin and founder of this board, can really do or say whatever the hell he wants, whenever and however he wants. This board is his baby. If he wanted to kick me off one day for no reason, it's his right. I wouldn't be happy about it, but I couldn't do anything to stop him, really.

Kaith, lock this damn thread, will ya?

Cthulhu

 

[Don Rearic]

Originally posted by Cthulhu
1. RMA = rec.martialarts Martial arts newsgroup.

Oh GAWD, I want nothing to do with that scene at all!

4. Kaith, as admin and founder of this board, can really do or say whatever the hell he wants, whenever and however he wants. This board is his baby. If he wanted to kick me off one day for no reason, it's his right. I wouldn't be happy about it, but I couldn't do anything to stop him, really.

That is true, but that would not make it right either.

Kaith, lock this damn thread, will ya?

Cthulhu

Why? I don't see where it is getting out of hand at all...why lock it and then leave everything fester when no one is getting carried away with any threats or any other concerns that were voiced?

 

[no fefe]

To be truthful I have never asked Datu, I have seen and felt his skills and that is enough for me.

I have been to Presas seminars where Prof. Presas addressed him as a Datu and publicly stated how much he cared about Datu Worden and even stated that Datu Worden was going to be teaching blade work at one of the camps. I figure if Professor addressed him as a Datu then that is good enough.

In regards to the camp Arnisador it is open to everybody, you should come and check it out I think it will be worth the trip.

Robert K.

 

[no fefe]

and point of views are being seen. I don't see a reason to lock this thread.

Datu Hartman isn't the only person that doesn't like to mince his words in here and I think we are all starting to see things clearly now.

Anway.....

Robert K.

 

[Datu Tim Hartman]

Listen,
we want everyone to feel welcome here. Times are hard for everyone now. We ALL lost Remy. Some of us where closer to him than others, but we all still share the same loss. When there are losses like this sometimes we must remeber that tempers may be running a little high. No one of us know evreything and we must take that into account. Some times a question is just a question.

 

[arnisador]

Originally posted by no fefe
To be truthful I have never asked Datu, I have seen and felt his skills and that is enough for me.

Fair enough! I agree that this is the best test, and if you don't know and don't care then I certainly respect that. Many instructors in other FMA systems have no rank of any sort because the ranking system just isn't used!

I figure if Professor addressed him as a Datu then that is good enough.

One might say the asme about titles as rank, in fact--if you have seen and felt his skills then presumably that is enough. For me, who has never worked with him, the fact that the Professor gave him that title is a significant factor.

In regards to the camp Arnisador it is open to everybody, you should come and check it out I think it will be worth the trip.

I'm sure it would--I have read about Mr. Worden's teachings in the martial arts magazines and would be very interested.

 

[Red Blade]

Since you guys brought it up,
Who was his JKD instructor and what level of certification does he have?