Whats the most effective real world martial arts? Bujikan?

[kip42]

I have trained for two years in Modern Army Combatives and we mainly foccused on BJJ ground fighting.

I am currently training in Commando Krav Maga but want to move away from it since Monni Izak has been proven to be a lier.

What system out there will give me the most realistic fighting from stand up to the ground?

I want something that focusses on modern weapons such as guns, folding knives, and teache

My beaf with most traditional martial arts is that it either is competition based or is for fighting one person at a time. I dont want to continue in Brazilian Jiu Jitsu b.c instead of roleing I would prefer to kick to the head, get up and run, or hit the groin and run from a giotean instead of roleing and opening myself up to hits from his buddies.

I respect all arts but found that traditional karate, taw kwon do, judo etc was not for me. I would prefer to close the opponent and move to the outside instead of block and end up on the inside of his line. Also prefer simple moves that are the same. I want something that will end the confrontation as fast as possible against multiple people. I prefer to train in real life enviornments like outside in the grass, concrete, with regularly worn attire.

I am very interested in the nine schools of the Bujinkan but fear that would move my foccuss from a current reality based art. Whats the most effective street survival fight survival out there?

 

[Bill Mattocks]

The School of Hard Knocks.

 

[Omar B]

A lot of what you are talking about comes down to application of your style man. I do Seido karate but I take people down can can stomp them if I wish. The only limitations of your art are placed there by you. Krav Maga is a good system too, if you have a problem with Moni then realize he is one man and the instruction you are getting is from another man and it is effective. As I always say, love the art, not the artist. Or you could move to another KM organization.

Style does not matter much, style is a framework. A football player can throw a ball, so can a baseball player, as can a cricketer, it's just different systems. I will tell you that as a karateka I've gotten my butt handed to me by a Tai Chi guy.

 

[MJS]

I have trained for two years in Modern Army Combatives and we mainly foccused on BJJ ground fighting.

I am currently training in Commando Krav Maga but want to move away from it since Monni Izak has been proven to be a lier.

What system out there will give me the most realistic fighting from stand up to the ground?

I want something that focusses on modern weapons such as guns, folding knives, and teache

My beaf with most traditional martial arts is that it either is competition based or is for fighting one person at a time. I dont want to continue in Brazilian Jiu Jitsu b.c instead of roleing I would prefer to kick to the head, get up and run, or hit the groin and run from a giotean instead of roleing and opening myself up to hits from his buddies.

I respect all arts but found that traditional karate, taw kwon do, judo etc was not for me. I would prefer to close the opponent and move to the outside instead of block and end up on the inside of his line. Also prefer simple moves that are the same. I want something that will end the confrontation as fast as possible against multiple people. I prefer to train in real life enviornments like outside in the grass, concrete, with regularly worn attire.

I am very interested in the nine schools of the Bujinkan but fear that would move my foccuss from a current reality based art. Whats the most effective street survival fight survival out there?

There are many threads on here that ask the same questions you're asking here, so I'll say the same thing.....there is no one magical art that has all of the tricks and secrets, and that'll turn you into some superhuman unbeatable fighting machine. If thats what you're looking for, you're probably going to be looking for a very, very, very long time. My suggestions would be to figure out what you want out of your training. Once you have that figured out, research some schools in your area, even if it means having to drive an hour or two. If its something that you really, really want, then you'll have to make that commitment. Next, I'd go to the schools, watch/take a class, talk to the teacher, etc.

Pretty much every art out there addresses all types of attacks. For example....my base art is Kenpo. We have defenses for pretty much every attack out there, however, I like to expand my training, so I cross train in Arnis and BJJ, to help round out my ground work and weapons work.

Now, before you get the impression that I'm suggesting to you that you run out and join up at 5 different schools, no, thats not what I'm saying. What I'm saying is: Find a school that you like and start training. Once you get established, then you can look around at other things, but again, if you're thinking that you're going to find some magical art, you're living in a fantasy, because there isn't one.

Also, as others have already said, its not necessarily the art, but the way the person trains the art.

 

[ralphmcpherson]

I have to agree with Omar B where he said "the only limitations in an art are placed there by you". I personally dont believe any arts dont work or they wouldnt stand the test of time. Train in whatever you enjoy and train with real life self defence in mind and know your strengths and weaknesses. The art you choose will have less to do with 'effectiveness' than the way you train. Most of all, choose an art you enjoy doing because if you dont enjoy it you will never get good at it.

 

[sgtmac_46]

Train hard, train realistically. There is no 'Answer' with a gigantic capital 'A'......there's a lot of smaller answers, though, and they are all revealed with hard training that sets aside the ego.

 

[Chris Parker]

Hi kip42,

These guys have been rather nice so far. I'm not about to be. Just so you know (that will extend to your other threads as well, by the way. Don't really want to stop your interest, but there needs to be a modicum more reality in place....).

To begin with, let's start with some background. You give a number of systems below (we'll get to that), but your entire profile lists you as "Beginner MMA". Can we ask your age? I'm getting the impression of early twenties at the moment, would that be close?

Okay, to the post...

I have trained for two years in Modern Army Combatives and we mainly foccused on BJJ ground fighting.

I am currently training in Commando Krav Maga but want to move away from it since Monni Izak has been proven to be a lier.

Okay. So your drive is what you think are "effective" systems, which by your standards are some of the harder ones out there today (note, that is not "difficult" hard, but "impact" hard), typically modern ones based in military use.

What system out there will give me the most realistic fighting from stand up to the ground?

There is none. Don't bother looking for it. You're focusing on entirely the wrong thing.

I want something that focusses on modern weapons such as guns, folding knives, and teache

Not sure what you mean at the end there.... machette perhaps? Or did you stop mid-sentence (teache[s something or other.])?

My beaf with most traditional martial arts is that it either is competition based or is for fighting one person at a time. I dont want to continue in Brazilian Jiu Jitsu b.c instead of roleing I would prefer to kick to the head, get up and run, or hit the groin and run from a giotean instead of roleing and opening myself up to hits from his buddies.

No, your beef is with the systems you have encountered and the way they are taught. And more honestly, your beef is with your lack of understanding of what and how the systems teach (competitive training may not be for you, but the uses of such are more than just competition). And your prefered methods are a little worrying... kick to the head? In many places that is considered aggravated assault, especially if the other person is already on the ground.

I respect all arts but found that traditional karate, taw kwon do, judo etc was not for me. I would prefer to close the opponent and move to the outside instead of block and end up on the inside of his line. Also prefer simple moves that are the same. I want something that will end the confrontation as fast as possible against multiple people. I prefer to train in real life enviornments like outside in the grass, concrete, with regularly worn attire.

So you're looking for something that does things the way you want to? Really? First thing to do when studying a new martial art is to accept that you need to do things the way they teach it, not the other way around. Look around, pick an instructor you like and respect, and do what they say, even if you don't think you agree with it. Otherwise don't bother turning up, you'll just be wasting both yours and the instructors time.

I am very interested in the nine schools of the Bujinkan but fear that would move my foccuss from a current reality based art. Whats the most effective street survival fight survival out there?

You like "the nine schools of the Bujinkan"? Based on what? I'm going to bet just reading, as you may not be aware that three of those schools aren't really taught, nor are the systems really taught seperately. In the Bujinkan you study Bujinkan Budo Taijutsu, a system of integrated concepts taken from the various lineages that Hatsumi is head of.... but I'll deal with that in more detail in your other thread.

I'll clear up the end part for you there, though. The most effective street survival systems out there are not martial arts. They are what are refered to as RBSD systems, and are based on high stress drills, adrenaline drills, understanding the pre-fight, and handling the inital assault. There is very little actual technical knowledge in these systems, as it is assumed that you will come to them with some background first. These classes are rarely regular, instead being more taught as occasional workshops, perhaps over a weekend or more. But they are not martial arts. And they are incredibly confronting (as they need to be).

 

[DeLamar.J]

Whats the most effective real world martial arts?


I think your best bet is to learn something military. Normally the arts taught in military are made for combat. Your still going to run into a little watering down of the arts because the army for example, they teach BJJ because they would like our soldiers to be able to restrain someone if possible and not kill them. Same reason they don't have the standard issue rifle shoot a 7.62 mm round, that's a killing round.
I'm sure there are going to be a few people that are going to be confused with that statement because any caliber can kill you, but trust me when I say the 7.62's purpose was to be a killer, the 223 was made more for accuracy, a higher probability to wound without killing.
So my point is, learn something military, then you will need to be exposed to individuals who have developed there style to actual combat. Be taught by real killers. Once your exposed to them, then you will learn to better adjust your techniques in to real world no ******** combat.

 

[Xue Sheng]

Anbo-jitsu - the ultimate evolution in the martial arts

-or-

Not best, not most effective but Police/Military Sanda… and good luck with finding a teacher that actual know it and is willing to teach it to you

 

[Omar B]

Star Trek reference, nice!

 

[Brian R. VanCise]

Find a teacher that you like and enjoy practicing what they teach! There is no ultimate martial system. So find some thing that you would enjoy practicing for a long time and train.

 

[Omar B]

I think a lot of people mislead themselves when it comes to self defense. The operative word there is "self," it's all up to the individual. You can be the best shooter in the world, if the time comes when you have to pull the trigger and you can't then all your skills mean nothing. There's too much thought put into style, and too little thought put into your own mindset and developing your skill-set.

Defense can be fighting, or verbal judo, situational awareness, deploying a weapon or just not putting yourself in a bad situation. It all starts though with the self. Style means nothing when you put yourself in a bad situation, no matter if your school teaches you how to be a one man death machine.

Learn your style, learn it fully, develop a mindset to survive, mental toughness and fitness. I hate when people say things like "karate has no ground game," this is obviously someone who only knows karate from movies. Karate is a striking art, but most of our self defense tech. involves a block, strike, take-down and then a finisher, as well as defenses for a takedown. When people say it lacks takedowns it's obvious they have never spent time in a dojo, but they have read lots of loudmouth, opinionated internet posts and seen lots of movies. Same with any other ignorant saying about this or that style lacking whatever. It usually comes from no understanding of an art. Sure arts focus on specific elements, but in most cases it's not to the detriment of other elements, you still learn them, just not as focused as another style is.

Many of these styles have been in use for quite a few years (to say the least) and would have disappeared or fallen by the wayside if they were not effective. There has been no change in the human body between then and now, we don't have an extra limb, extra joints, human anatomy is the same.

 

[Big Don]

STFU Do, easily upwards of 90% of fights you'll get into, will be caused by your mouth. Shut up more, fight less...

 

[Tanaka]

STFU Do, easily upwards of 90% of fights you'll get into, will be caused by your mouth. Shut up more, fight less...

He might be military or police

 

[Bill Mattocks]

Whats the most effective real world martial arts?


I think your best bet is to learn something military. Normally the arts taught in military are made for combat. Your still going to run into a little watering down of the arts because the army for example, they teach BJJ because they would like our soldiers to be able to restrain someone if possible and not kill them. Same reason they don't have the standard issue rifle shoot a 7.62 mm round, that's a killing round.
I'm sure there are going to be a few people that are going to be confused with that statement because any caliber can kill you, but trust me when I say the 7.62's purpose was to be a killer, the 223 was made more for accuracy, a higher probability to wound without killing.
So my point is, learn something military, then you will need to be exposed to individuals who have developed there style to actual combat. Be taught by real killers. Once your exposed to them, then you will learn to better adjust your techniques in to real world no ******** combat.

Wow, is that ever wrong!

The military is taught hand-to-hand combat for the purpose of killing. We don't hit people upside the head with an entrenching tool or run them through with a bayonet because we want to capture them without killing. The martial arts skills taught are done for when there are no weapons readily to hand, but the goal is still to kill.

The job of the military is to advance, close with, and destroy the enemy. This is aggressive, not defensive. The job of a person who is defending themselves is to defend their own life. There are overlapping skill sets in these two, but they are essentially different.

As to the efficacy of the 5.56 mm round versus the 7.62 mm, I won't even go there; everyone has their opinions. However, I will say that the 5.56 mm round was not designed intentionally to be 'more accurate' or 'less lethal' than the 7.62 mm. It is lighter, so the soldier can carry more of it. It produces less recoil, and it the weapon designed for it has a higher cyclic rate of fire. If it happens to be more accurate or less lethal than 7.62 mm ammunition, that is merely a side-effect, not a design consideration.

 

[Big Don]

I think a lot of people mislead themselves when it comes to self defense. The operative word there is "self," it's all up to the individual. You can be the best shooter in the world, if the time comes when you have to pull the trigger and you can't then all your skills mean nothing. There's too much thought put into style, and too little thought put into your own mindset and developing your skill-set.

Defense can be fighting, or verbal judo, situational awareness, deploying a weapon or just not putting yourself in a bad situation. It all starts though with the self. Style means nothing when you put yourself in a bad situation, no matter if your school teaches you how to be a one man death machine.

Learn your style, learn it fully, develop a mindset to survive, mental toughness and fitness. I hate when people say things like "karate has no ground game," this is obviously someone who only knows karate from movies. Karate is a striking art, but most of our self defense tech. involves a block, strike, take-down and then a finisher, as well as defenses for a takedown. When people say it lacks takedowns it's obvious they have never spent time in a dojo, but they have read lots of loudmouth, opinionated internet posts and seen lots of movies. Same with any other ignorant saying about this or that style lacking whatever. It usually comes from no understanding of an art. Sure arts focus on specific elements, but in most cases it's not to the detriment of other elements, you still learn them, just not as focused as another style is.

Many of these styles have been in use for quite a few years (to say the least) and would have disappeared or fallen by the wayside if they were not effective. There has been no change in the human body between then and now, we don't have an extra limb, extra joints, human anatomy is the same.

QFT
There is no substitute for situational awareness, if you don't know what is going on around you, you are just asking to be a victim. Likewise, if you don't have it in you to cause injury to another person, you aren't going to last long in a life or death situation.

 

[Josh Oakley]

Xuefu?

 

[Xue Sheng]

Xuefu?

Well obviously...but that is only taught to a "Chosen few"... for unquestioning obedience and... of course... a small fee :EG:

 

[MBuzzy]

You know - I doubt we'll ever hear from Kip again....but in the mean time for anyone else who is reading this...it sounds like you're looking for the easy answer. The "show up to class and learn to be a fighter" answer. The problem is that it takes time and basics. As you advance in a style, you get better. EVERY style is effective, you just hav eto give it the time it deserves.

 

[Hudson69]

I think you need to find out what is going to work for you; Army combatives, which I have some, if limited experience with, currently does have a lot of focus on its ground fighting but if memory serves it has a fair share of stand up as well which includes hand, elbow and knee strikes to go along with kicks.

As far as Budo Taijutsu goes I would ask any of the Senior moderators with a ninjutsu background about it but Chris Parker is a wealth of information and he replies quickly and with some solid insight. From personal experience you will need to be able to invest in a significant amount of time in Budo Taijutsu to be able to use it against one person let alone many; if you are not in a rush then try this out.

Like Omar B said; just because the figure head of Combat Krav is getting a bad wrap doesn't make the system bad, decide that for yourself.

As far as kicking someone in the head try TKD or Tang Soo Do, if you want to combat multiple opponents Combatives and Krav, I can say, gives you the tools. It sounds like you need to get a training group together where you can train in this fashion.

I am ex-Army (AF now) and still train with my OD Green friends and 1 on 1, 2 on 1 and pile on top is easily set up and can be both great training and a lot of fun...

My suggestion is to look into systems/arts that sound like they might be what you are wanting but look deeper into what you have ready access to as well; Army combatives teaches knife fighting, not knife defense, a big difference and it also teaches the use of the rope, e-tool (a great weapon), short stick, long stick and more. Get the Army combatives manual on line, download it for free at: http://www.wabujitsu.com/fm3_25x150.pdf for more information on your own system.

Whatever you do dont just jump into anything and train safe.

My .02 only