Combat proven martial arts. What are the top real world effective arts?

[Daniel Sullivan]

Fred, you might want to read what people are saying before responding. Nobody has mentioned death touches except for you.

You also seem to assume that predatory violence is limited to rape. Not sure where you get that idea, but there are predators that are not sexual predators and who have no interest in raping their victims. Plenty of predators who only want to 'rape' their victim's wallet and who are willing to do injury to them in order to do so. They choose their victims based on whether or not they can reasonably succeed in taking from them what they want (cash, credit cards, i-phone) and avoid those who they feel would be too much trouble. That is a predator.

The story about the street fighter is nice, and maybe even true, but it neither supports your arguments nor effectively counters those of anyone else.

Daniel

 

[FriedRice]

Your inability to differentiate sports fighing and SD astounds me. Maybe you've spent too much time with your friend on PCP or Meth getting shot at.

Are you mad b/c you can't make an argument?

And you think this is something to be proud of? I'd suggest you stop, think before you type and realise where it is that you are posting.

Show me where I said this. Why do you lie?

A serious forum for serious dedicated martial artists with experience far far far far superior to yours.

Why are you here then?

What makes you think you are even remotely qualified to reach a joint conclusion with a gang banger and dealer about the current climate of street violence as a whole when the people you are talking down to are LEO's or military?

Well if you worked on your reading comprehension, you'd realize that I was using my friend as an example of someone who's been in multiple fights vs. yourself who only talks about it.

Aside from your training in the 3 or so arts mentioned on your profile, what are your qualifications? What's your background? It's easy to talk big under the guise of Internet annonimity but what's the reality here?

Background for what? I train, I spar and I fight. There are plenty of cops & miltary in our MMA dojo. I can whoop some and others can whoop me.

Marines, Army Ranges w/e all suck? I'd loooove to see you go up against one on a mat, forget the street. Now I'm not part of any of those groups myself but broadly saying army combatives suck is a little ridiculous.

Are you a child? Learn to read. I never said this. Why do you make up lies?

I love how you deem it appropriate to waltz in and start making assumptions about people you've never met, trained with or had a decent conversation with. Make a lot of friends do you?

I'd rather not have friends like you who make up lies.

Again, wow your ignorance is astounding! For the record though, I'm a noob to BJJ, I'll be the first person to admit that. He on the other hand has been training for about 10 years (a helluva lot longer than getting a Purple Belt) and has competed in international tournaments for under 18's and now under 21's consistently acheiving high results. I said play around because that's how it is for me. I have no chance to think before he moves in for a submission when on the ground. Stand up is a different ball game but the ground is his world. Oh and just to be clear, at no point did I tell you to take advice from me about BJJ, I just suggested you had a long way to go when it comes to understanding SD as it happens in real, sober, non drug induced life.

I've never taken any illegal drugs, once again you're just a liar. And if you realize that you're a noob then don't try to give me advice about BJJ. Anybody can compete in international tournaments, you just have to get there and pay the fee(s), duh?

If you've been training for 3 years and can't realise that BJJ can be devastating to joints/limbs etc then you're not training right.

Really Sherlock, but most of us know when it's about to be "devastating" and we stop, duh?

 

[Aiki Lee]

More obvious that you don't spar nor have fought b/c you made a statement about how come I don't kill my sparring partners when I spar against them at 100%..

100% by definition is the absolute most you could possible do. If a person is not injured then it is not 100%. 100% requires commitment to attack which is not what happens in sparring. Sparring is more or less a painful game of tag. Randori remembles actual fighting because there is an aggressor comming at you with the intention to harm you.

So I wasn't fighting when a man tried to choke me to death in my own home and I collapsed his face in for it? Please enlighten me what fighting is.

Sell this to women who are scared to get raped in a dark parking lot, I'll pass thanks.

This again, what is with you and rape?

We are wearing at least 12oz gloves and headgear. We don't use anti-rape techniques while sparring..

So you are wearing protection which limits your ability to accurately go 100% as padds, gloves, and headgear are meant to lessen the effect. 12oz gloves also limit your ability to grapple. Take off your gloves, pads, and headgear then go full force and speed. See what happens.

Which is why I question whether you've fought at at all. You seem to think that people stand still for you to hit them in a real fight.

That's not what I'm saying at all, if you actually read what I posted I stated people don't let you hit them that's why you have to set them up. You obviously missed the point.

Guess you only spar with noobs and girls?

1. That is insulting towards women
2. It's out right wrong
3. I don't spar anymore because it didn't prepare me for self-defense fighting scenarios. That's why I practice randori

I'm sparring against people my level. Why is this so difficult to understand that during hard sparring and real fights, the other guy is looking to hurt me just the same. You've never fought before that's why you think fights shouldn't last more than "8 seconds".

People your level? Kyu ranks? You understand that not even having a black belt qualifies a person as an expert right? If you and your training parter were going 100% with the intention to cause injury, someone would get an injury. Why does that not make sense to you? If there is no injury it is because someone drops the commitment to attack.

watch a video of a street fight on youtube where one person is committed to harming the other and not just swinging in anger because of an arguement. That situation is what JKS is talking about when it comes to predator type people. Predators don't always want to rape someone, sometimes they just want to rob, beat, kill, or humilate you. They have an agenda and they are committed to it. That's why it only lasts a brief moment.

There's no way to know whether a street fight is just going to be a couple of punches that gets broken up or a guaranteed, fight to the death. Do people really fight to the death outside of chopsocky movies?

Yes they do it is called murder sometimes and it is called war at other times. Obviously not all SD is as dramatic as a rape or murder situation, but if a fight lasts longer than a few seconds it is based on ego and the people have very limited understand of what to do.

Are you going to rip someone's eyeballs out the first chance you get in any situation? This is absurd.

obviously not. It what way did I imply this? Your assumptions astound me.

Wrong, I'm throwing punches and kicks at 100% power but it doesn't mean the other guy is going to stand still and take it all..

You are sparring in a sport based method. He does not have the commitment to kill or harm you significantly. This is not a practical self-defense training methodology. If he blocks all your strikes then you are not using tactics to engage him and are just throwing basics at him. If he is backing up and evading you then he is not attacking you (which means its not self-defense) and you are now the aggressor and still not using tactics to trap him and prevent him from movement.

You don't seem to know what an expert is. And show me where I advocated going to the ground intentionally all the time?

As a purple belt in BJJ do you consider yourself an expert?

BJJ is often observed as a being specialized in ground fighting. That's why I asked. If you wouldn't go to the ground intentionally then I agree with you and that part of the arguement is no longer contested.

Again, go sell this to scared women who are worried about getting raped in a dark alley. You must think a MMA fighter can't target someone's throat nor kick them in the nuts b/c it's so difficult.

1. Why do you keep bringing up rape? The predator mindset does not only apply to that.
2. I never said an MMA fighter can't do those things. MMA is geared towards sports which shapes its training methodology and strategic approach to fighting. Of course an MMA fighter can be effective on the streets, if he or she practices what he or she knows in a self-defense setting.
3. You remind me alot of RoninX. Perhaps you will share his fate.

 

[MJS]

Yea, the violence in the ring is a lot worse b/c you're fighting against someone who's equally trained vs. some clown in the streets. How many times have you used your death touches in the streets? Usually it's just yelling or 1 or 2 punches. Predatory violence? No dudes ever tried to rape me before, you?

I know that a) you wont be able to respond to this post at the moment and b) this wasnt directed at me, but I'll reply anyways. I'm going to disagree with this. The violence in the ring is IMO not worse due to the ref, whos #1 job is to protect the fighters, and the rule set, in addition to neither fighter really trying to kill the other.

I just gave you the example of my best friend who's had over 50 street fights and numerous tournament fights. He has a whole room for his trophies. He doesn't freeze in a streetfight and neither do I. So do our experiences negates yours?

I really can't believe you're comparing ring/tournament fighting to the real world.

You make it sound like every situation is a life or death one. I say, none of us knows squat as to what can happen. That's why I chose to spar often and fight in tournaments. How does building up my strength, power, endurance, agility, precision, experience, etc... not help me more than fake fighting using death touches to the throat and pretend testicle strikes? It's obvious that people are no longer buying this which is why they're flocking to MMA.

People flock to MMA because its the current flavor of the week. 70s it was Karate, 80s it was Ninjutsu, 90s its BJJ/MMA. Make no mistake about it....I've trained in it, I have friends that train it, I think BJJ or any grappling art for that matter is the art to go to when you want to learn how to better yourself on the ground. But I, unlike so many others, dont feel that its the end all, be all of training. It has its weak points as well.

As for every situation being life and death....no, it'll definately depend on the situation. Something that starts as what appears to be nothing, could turn ugly very quick.

 

[Supra Vijai]

Hmm I was always taught you never argue with children or idiots because you always get dragged down to their level but it's 2:30 am, I have the worst headache because I had day surgery earlier and all the anasthetic wore off about 4 hours ago so I'm not going to sleep anyway so what the hell...

Are you mad b/c you can't make an argument?

Did I sound mad in my previous post? I thought I made lots of arguments but clearly you either can't/didn't read them or chose to ignore them. That's fine.

Show me where I said this. Why do you lie?

Where you said what exactly? About being proud of your friend? You didn't use so many words but

My best friend, who I train with has been in over 50 street fights b/c he used to be a gang banger, drug dealer, etc. He fought with knives, vs. knifes, firefights where he expended over 50 rounds of .223 in one exchange. This is a hell of a lot for an urban firefight. He used to take all sorts of drugs, especially meth and I think PCP to just train hard in MA. He was crazy.

That's either pride or some desperate grab for attention. Why do we care how many rounds he fired in a street fight? Why did that feature in your response in the first place?

Why are you here then?

You choose to ignore the context completely and resort to immature retorts. How old are you? To answer your question though, listen kid, I may not have trained in as many arts as you or be as experienced as the majority of posters here but when it comes to being a serious martial artist, I think I can safely say I leave you dead in the water. If nothing else, I'm prepared to be corrected and to learn from my mistakes instead of blindly preaching my fantasy and passing it off as truth.

Well if you worked on your reading comprehension, you'd realize that I was using my friend as an example of someone who's been in multiple fights vs. yourself who only talks about it.

How do you know how many fights I've been in? You don't know me, my background, my friends or contacts, my line of work both current and in the past and still you assume that you and your friends are the only ones who have ever been in a fight and everyone else here is just out to talk big.

Background for what? I train, I spar and I fight. There are plenty of cops & miltary in our MMA dojo. I can whoop some and others can whoop me.

You tell me to learn to read. I'd strongly suggest you do the same. But I'll ask you a specific question since you seem to be having trouble connecting sentences together into context otherwise. What is your background that qualifies you to make an assumption on the "true" nature of street crime? You train, you spar and you fight. If you train and spar so you can get into street fights you are not a martial artist, you are a glorified thug. If you train and spar to get into tournaments and fight, then you are a sportsman or athlete not a SD expert.

Are you a child? Learn to read. I never said this. Why do you make up lies?

I fail to see how I've lied at any point so far. It would make more sense to you if you quoted my entire post rather than taking out a little snippet and cutting out half the sentence but for your benefit here is what you said

With no training, they all suck and get all flustered when they get a simple jab to the face for that very first time. Marines, Army Ranger, w/e ....they all suck unless the had training.

My response was that saying they suck is ridiculous and that none of those military style groups need to focus on Hand to Hand combat as much as your average civilian learning self defence because they have guns and bayonets and other weaponry available to them. I really would appreciate it if you read all of my reply before blinding commenting.

I'd rather not have friends like you who make up lies.

Awww really? I'm shattered.....

I've never taken any illegal drugs, once again you're just a liar. And if you realize that you're a noob then don't try to give me advice about BJJ. Anybody can compete in international tournaments, you just have to get there and pay the fee(s), duh?

Once again your ignoring your own previous posts which is where I draw my information from. Read what you wrote again. Also once again, I never tried to give you advice about BJJ. I'm telling you that you have no concept of reality or self defence and are living in a delusional fantasy world. All the best to you, just don't try sell it on here. Also if we are going by your argument that any person can walk into a tournament and just compete by paying a fee, you've just tarnished the credibility of an entire system which I'm sure will go down really well with a lot of people on here who train it.

Really Sherlock, but most of us know when it's about to be "devastating" and we stop, duh?

So you go 100% and hit with full power but stop just before you do any damage. By definition you've lost your claim to 100% training. Most of you know when it's about to be devastating? What about the rest? How high is your schools' insurance premium? How many students have been crippled because their training partner wasn't one of the "most of us" who knew the limits? Again, you're living in a fantasy world where you are the ultimate fighter and everyone else is just full of themselves and are useless in a street fight because they don't have your friend with his 50 street fights worth of experience behind them.

I know you can't reply at the moment, maybe never but if you are allowed to post again, don't post blindly based on emotions, try to think about what's been said and what you're saying. Drop this fascination with rape that you seem to have. If nothing else I'm starting to get highly offended by how callously you throw that around. I know quite a few victims of sexual abuse and trust me it's not something you bring up so lightly, especially when you are using it in what is clearly a derogatory manner. Base your arguments in fact and back them up with evidence of your credibility rather than resorting to ad hominem attacks.

My apologies to the Mods and other forum members if I've crossed any lines here

 

[Brian R. VanCise]

Funny in that people always try to make what they do the absolute be all end all when in reality there simply are "no absolutes"!

 

[Daniel Sullivan]

One thing that sticks out in the last couple of pages is that, as is often the case, a lot of time was spent debating the nature of fights and whether or not hard sparring is an analogue to 'a real fight.'

Hard sparring is an analogue to the kinds of fights guys used to get into when I was in high school, or that guys get into at gatherings where things get out of hand and there is usually freely flowing alcohol (not limited to just bars; the oft mentioned drunken uncle comes to mind). Or the kind of fight that might occur when two drivers have an accident and tempers flare. Or one kid's dad feels that the other kid was unsportsmanlike at the soccor game. Fights of this nature usually errupt because of the inability of both parties to back off. Usually, only one need back off. If neither one does, it only takes one to lose control of his temper. Mosr 'fights' of this nature can be averted by common sense and by exercising a bit of maturity.

Fred kept emphasizing that he has never been the victim of rape or attempted rape, and seemed to equate predatory violence with rape.

Chances are, outside of prison, most guys won't be raped. But predators are not always rapists. More than likely, unarmed predators will avoid fit looking men who carry themselves like a trained figher. Too much potential for hassle.

A predator who is armed, on the other hand, will be less concerned with the fitness, gender, or size of his victim.

The skills that most of us, including those of us who do MMA, drill in regularly are fairly useless against knives and guns. Often, the defenses against such weapons that are practiced are predacated upon unrealistic attacks. A guy with a box cutter can ruin the day of an MMA champ or a ninja master just as easily as they can ruin the day for a petite secretary. Not to mention that a 'fight' for which hard sparring is supposed to be an analogue to, can change in the blink of an eye with one opponent producing a knife. This is why Kenshin commented that you want to end the conflict within a few seconds. The longer it goes on, the more variables can come into play.

Guess what? If you are engaged in a struggle with an assailant and he produces a knife, he isn't going to produce it and pose for you. He'll produce it quickly and cut you before you realize that he has armed himself.

And that dynamic is what separates a 'real' fight from hard sparring. There is also the possibility that the assailant is not working alone. The initial encounter may be a set up to keep you occupied while two more flank you. Or you may be assaulted by two or more partners in crime who may or may not be armed.

The fact is that if all of your experience with violence comes from the training hall, you are relatively unacquainted with violence. I'm sure that anyone in law enforcement knows how unpredictable the real world can be. I read the sad reports of officers killed in the line of duty, sometimes during a 'routine' traffic stop.

Bringing this back to the OP, there is no 'top' combat proven art. If you're attacked and your 'training saves you' then great! I salute you and chalk up another for the good guys. But for every person who's training saves them, there are more who are trained just as well or better who still die or end up seriously injured after being attacked. Every police officer who dies in the line of duty has training, often more than most of us, a side arm, and some kind of handheld blunt weapon, and perhaps even light body armor.

If the police are not invincible, neither are the rest of us. Don't look for the uber art and don't assume that you're any better of than those who train in an art that you frown upon or who train differently.

Exercise common sense and maturity and keep your ego in check. No matter what you practice, you are not invincible.

Daniel

 

[Rayban]

Very concise Daniel, Just what this thread needed. Reason.

That being said I find this thread a constant source of both entertainment and insult.

I think "children" like M.r FriedRice need to seriously re-evaluate their life. His constant retorts with "rape" and other various woman degrading comments disturb me. I pity the next poor soul who accidentally looks at him the wrong way.

No matter how hard you think you are sparring, it is not real SD. It is an artificial environment created by you and your training partner. Its like bird versus an plane. No matter how well a plane is designed, it will never be a bird.

Proving a MA in combat is pointless. MA is too much more than "fighting" to be tested in this way. Tai chi can't be combat proven for example. MA is a way of life. The only way to test a way of life is to simply live it.

 

[MJS]

Hmm I was always taught you never argue with children or idiots because you always get dragged down to their level but it's 2:30 am, I have the worst headache because I had day surgery earlier and all the anasthetic wore off about 4 hours ago so I'm not going to sleep anyway so what the hell...



Did I sound mad in my previous post? I thought I made lots of arguments but clearly you either can't/didn't read them or chose to ignore them. That's fine.



Where you said what exactly? About being proud of your friend? You didn't use so many words but That's either pride or some desperate grab for attention. Why do we care how many rounds he fired in a street fight? Why did that feature in your response in the first place?




You choose to ignore the context completely and resort to immature retorts. How old are you? To answer your question though, listen kid, I may not have trained in as many arts as you or be as experienced as the majority of posters here but when it comes to being a serious martial artist, I think I can safely say I leave you dead in the water. If nothing else, I'm prepared to be corrected and to learn from my mistakes instead of blindly preaching my fantasy and passing it off as truth.



How do you know how many fights I've been in? You don't know me, my background, my friends or contacts, my line of work both current and in the past and still you assume that you and your friends are the only ones who have ever been in a fight and everyone else here is just out to talk big.



You tell me to learn to read. I'd strongly suggest you do the same. But I'll ask you a specific question since you seem to be having trouble connecting sentences together into context otherwise. What is your background that qualifies you to make an assumption on the "true" nature of street crime? You train, you spar and you fight. If you train and spar so you can get into street fights you are not a martial artist, you are a glorified thug. If you train and spar to get into tournaments and fight, then you are a sportsman or athlete not a SD expert.



I fail to see how I've lied at any point so far. It would make more sense to you if you quoted my entire post rather than taking out a little snippet and cutting out half the sentence but for your benefit here is what you said My response was that saying they suck is ridiculous and that none of those military style groups need to focus on Hand to Hand combat as much as your average civilian learning self defence because they have guns and bayonets and other weaponry available to them. I really would appreciate it if you read all of my reply before blinding commenting.




Awww really? I'm shattered.....



Once again your ignoring your own previous posts which is where I draw my information from. Read what you wrote again. Also once again, I never tried to give you advice about BJJ. I'm telling you that you have no concept of reality or self defence and are living in a delusional fantasy world. All the best to you, just don't try sell it on here. Also if we are going by your argument that any person can walk into a tournament and just compete by paying a fee, you've just tarnished the credibility of an entire system which I'm sure will go down really well with a lot of people on here who train it.




So you go 100% and hit with full power but stop just before you do any damage. By definition you've lost your claim to 100% training. Most of you know when it's about to be devastating? What about the rest? How high is your schools' insurance premium? How many students have been crippled because their training partner wasn't one of the "most of us" who knew the limits? Again, you're living in a fantasy world where you are the ultimate fighter and everyone else is just full of themselves and are useless in a street fight because they don't have your friend with his 50 street fights worth of experience behind them.

I know you can't reply at the moment, maybe never but if you are allowed to post again, don't post blindly based on emotions, try to think about what's been said and what you're saying. Drop this fascination with rape that you seem to have. If nothing else I'm starting to get highly offended by how callously you throw that around. I know quite a few victims of sexual abuse and trust me it's not something you bring up so lightly, especially when you are using it in what is clearly a derogatory manner. Base your arguments in fact and back them up with evidence of your credibility rather than resorting to ad hominem attacks.

My apologies to the Mods and other forum members if I've crossed any lines here

Great post! For the record, IMHO, no, I dont feel that you crossed any lines. When people come on here, acting like a macho tough guy or an *** in general, sometimes its necessary to be a bit firm in posting.

 

[MJS]

One thing that sticks out in the last couple of pages is that, as is often the case, a lot of time was spent debating the nature of fights and whether or not hard sparring is an analogue to 'a real fight.'

Hard sparring is an analogue to the kinds of fights guys used to get into when I was in high school, or that guys get into at gatherings where things get out of hand and there is usually freely flowing alcohol (not limited to just bars; the oft mentioned drunken uncle comes to mind). Or the kind of fight that might occur when two drivers have an accident and tempers flare. Or one kid's dad feels that the other kid was unsportsmanlike at the soccor game. Fights of this nature usually errupt because of the inability of both parties to back off. Usually, only one need back off. If neither one does, it only takes one to lose control of his temper. Mosr 'fights' of this nature can be averted by common sense and by exercising a bit of maturity.

Fred kept emphasizing that he has never been the victim of rape or attempted rape, and seemed to equate predatory violence with rape.

Chances are, outside of prison, most guys won't be raped. But predators are not always rapists. More than likely, unarmed predators will avoid fit looking men who carry themselves like a trained figher. Too much potential for hassle.

A predator who is armed, on the other hand, will be less concerned with the fitness, gender, or size of his victim.

The skills that most of us, including those of us who do MMA, drill in regularly are fairly useless against knives and guns. Often, the defenses against such weapons that are practiced are predacated upon unrealistic attacks. A guy with a box cutter can ruin the day of an MMA champ or a ninja master just as easily as they can ruin the day for a petite secretary. Not to mention that a 'fight' for which hard sparring is supposed to be an analogue to, can change in the blink of an eye with one opponent producing a knife. This is why Kenshin commented that you want to end the conflict within a few seconds. The longer it goes on, the more variables can come into play.

Guess what? If you are engaged in a struggle with an assailant and he produces a knife, he isn't going to produce it and pose for you. He'll produce it quickly and cut you before you realize that he has armed himself.

And that dynamic is what separates a 'real' fight from hard sparring. There is also the possibility that the assailant is not working alone. The initial encounter may be a set up to keep you occupied while two more flank you. Or you may be assaulted by two or more partners in crime who may or may not be armed.

The fact is that if all of your experience with violence comes from the training hall, you are relatively unacquainted with violence. I'm sure that anyone in law enforcement knows how unpredictable the real world can be. I read the sad reports of officers killed in the line of duty, sometimes during a 'routine' traffic stop.

Bringing this back to the OP, there is no 'top' combat proven art. If you're attacked and your 'training saves you' then great! I salute you and chalk up another for the good guys. But for every person who's training saves them, there are more who are trained just as well or better who still die or end up seriously injured after being attacked. Every police officer who dies in the line of duty has training, often more than most of us, a side arm, and some kind of handheld blunt weapon, and perhaps even light body armor.

If the police are not invincible, neither are the rest of us. Don't look for the uber art and don't assume that you're any better of than those who train in an art that you frown upon or who train differently.

Exercise common sense and maturity and keep your ego in check. No matter what you practice, you are not invincible.

Daniel

Great post Dan! While I do feel that 'alive' training is important to ones training, esp. if they're dealing to train for a physical attack, what some seem to miss, is that alone is not the 1 ultimate answer, like they want to think it is. I'm always amazed by people who think that by training in X art, they're somehow immune to a gunshot, a stab or slice or just getting beat with hands and feet. Last I checked, the black belt that my teacher gave to me, didn't come with a blue suit with a red S on it. LOL.

I for one, want to get the hell out of the situation asap. Training and going 5 rounds, IMO, isn't going to help me reach that goal. This is also why I mentioned, in an earlier post, people in the LE field or military. IMHO, these are people who're going to see and understand real violence and deal with it on a much more regular basis, than the average Joe martial artist. Of course, no, they're not supermen either, but I think you know what I'm saying.

In closing I'll give a plug to Rory Miller. That book he wrote should be required reading for all martial artists.

 

[punisher73]

I always remember a girl I knew. She was very out of shape and overweight about 5'2 tall. She only practiced her techniques in the air or doing drills with semi-compliant partners.

While at college, she was attacked by a guy who was quite a big larger in size than her and tried to pull her into a bathroom (weekend classroom building with almost no one there) to rape her. He hit her several times in the face to try and get her to stop, and afterwards her face was very bruised and an eye very swollen. She attempted to punch him back, but it had no effect. Finally, she was able to knee him in the groin and he dropped and she ran from the building.

Did she "win"? I say so, she got away safely and protected herself. Many times when guys talk about "self-defense", they don't figure in the aspect of doing enough to get away. They still have the mindset of fighting it out with the attacker until they put him down. Self-defense on the street isn't a match, there really isn't a winner. There are just those who go home intact.

 

[Daniel Sullivan]

Very concise Daniel, Just what this thread needed. Reason.

That being said I find this thread a constant source of both entertainment and insult.

I think "children" like M.r FriedRice need to seriously re-evaluate their life. His constant retorts with "rape" and other various woman degrading comments disturb me. I pity the next poor soul who accidentally looks at him the wrong way.

His posts demonstrate a lack of understanding of how predators work. His comments are predacated on the idea that the primary SD concern for men is fights resembling hard sparring with other men (par for the course in high school) and that the primary SD concern for women is being molested and/or raped.

Certainly, being raped is a greater concern for women (though purse snatching is a greater concern than that). But his posts gravitate towards this 'our sparring is as real as it gets' and that anything else is useless stuff that belongs in a women's self defense course, the implication being that guys who aren't training like him are 'wusses' and an unspoken but certainly present implication that women are weaklings incapable of handling themselves in 'real' fights.

Both men and women are more likely to be held at knife or gunpoint, regardless of the ultimate aim of the predator, than they are to be faced with 'street fight.' And men are more likely to be confronted with a weapon than women are; most good sized men can overpower most women with out the use of a weapon. Part of what makes them predators is that they prey upon those smaller and less powerful than themselves.

Some women do successfully fight off their attackers, and an unarmed woman is more likely to have success against a larger male than a male of any size is against an armed assailant.

It doesn't really matter what your gender, or even your size, is. A predator will only go after those against whom he or she feels they have a reasonable chance of success with. That's one reason why predators target children. A predator who targets a guy the size of Hulk Hogan wouldn't do so unless he or she had some reason to believe that they could succeed. If they are armed with a firearm or a knife, then they have a reasonable chance of success.

Daniel

 

[Daniel Sullivan]

Great post Dan! While I do feel that 'alive' training is important to ones training, esp. if they're dealing to train for a physical attack,

Absolutely. At some point, the techniques trained in cooperative partner work need to be pressure tested without the benefit of cooperation and with a partner actively resisting.

what some seem to miss, is that alone is not the 1 ultimate answer, like they want to think it is. I'm always amazed by people who think that by training in X art, they're somehow immune to a gunshot, a stab or slice or just getting beat with hands and feet. Last I checked, the black belt that my teacher gave to me, didn't come with a blue suit with a red S on it. LOL.

Some people never grow out of high school mentality. Others think like consumers, and are looking for that 'best product.' And one thing about consumerism, those who are driven by it have an innate need to feel that their purchase decision is the best and that those who chose differently chose less wisely.

I for one, want to get the hell out of the situation asap. Training and going 5 rounds, IMO, isn't going to help me reach that goal. This is also why I mentioned, in an earlier post, people in the LE field or military. IMHO, these are people who're going to see and understand real violence and deal with it on a much more regular basis, than the average Joe martial artist. Of course, no, they're not supermen either, but I think you know what I'm saying.

In closing I'll give a plug to Rory Miller. That book he wrote should be required reading for all martial artists.

Agreed with one qualifier: Training and going five rounds has its benefits; it builds endurance under pressure and trains you to keep your head on while someone is pounding on you. I still want to escape, however, and once I've effectively disengaged, that endurance and a cool head is a great thing.

Daniel

 

[MJS]

Absolutely. At some point, the techniques trained in cooperative partner work need to be pressure tested without the benefit of cooperation and with a partner actively resisting.


Some people never grow out of high school mentality. Others think like consumers, and are looking for that 'best product.' And one thing about consumerism, those who are driven by it have an innate need to feel that their purchase decision is the best and that those who chose differently chose less wisely.

Agreed.

Agreed with one qualifier: Training and going five rounds has its benefits; it builds endurance under pressure and trains you to keep your head on while someone is pounding on you. I still want to escape, however, and once I've effectively disengaged, that endurance and a cool head is a great thing.

Daniel

Oh I agree. Having the stamina is certainly important. I was just getting the impression that a certain someone was trying to say that a street fight and ring fight were the same in addition to justify the rounds rather than trying to escape. Of course, I may've misunderstood, but thats the impression I got.

 

[Daniel Sullivan]

Oh I agree. Having the stamina is certainly important. I was just getting the impression that a certain someone was trying to say that a street fight and ring fight were the same in addition to justify the rounds rather than trying to escape. Of course, I may've misunderstood, but thats the impression I got.

I got the same impression, along with the impression that that same individual has little to no idea what an actual fight is, that a certain street fighting character was entirely fictitious, and that the closest thing to ring fighting that he gets is about ten feet from his television.

Daniel

 

[Supra Vijai]

I got the same impression, along with the impression that that same individual has little to no idea what an actual fight is, that a certain street fighting character was entirely fictitious, and that the closest thing to ring fighting that he gets is about ten feet from his television.

Daniel

Similar to an issue I have on facebook from time to time.. there are not enough ways to thank this post!