What to do after you have defended yourself

[CB Jones]

If the scene is unsafe then yes leave the scene and go somewhere nearby. If it is safe stay and wait for police.

Call the police as soon as possible. Advise them you were involved in shooting, where the shooting was located, where you are located, and do as they advise.

If you have a lawyer call him/her.

Give a brief statement of what happened to the lead case agent/investigator (but don’t go into great detail). Advise patrol officer you would prefer to wait and speak to the investigator if patrol starts asking questions.

Advise investigator you are willing to come in and give a detailed statement within the next 48 hours.

If you don’t have an attorney hire one quick that has experience with self defense. Even if you aren’t charged with a crime chances are that you will be sued civilly.

 

[Tez3]

You said he was a ranking officer, that means some one higher up, rank and file means boots on the ground.
Actually adrenaline is the first thing you should talk about, everything you do in the immediate aftermath of an incident is coloured by that, the way you think, the way you respond and what you say. It's fine going through a check list of things you should think about but can you think like that with an massive adrenaline dump? How do you know you won't start burbling instead of logically following the scenario you have set up beforehand.

CB Jones has given you very good advice, I'd follow that rather than the complicated over thought list of things you think will happen and you will do.

On the point of leaving the scene, if you leave automatically rather than just when it's dangerous to stop have you thought how it will look if you leave an injured person lying there without attempting to call an ambulance, do first aid etc. It may sound a bit much after they attacked you but if you leave when it's safe to stay and don't attempt help it takes 'reasonable force' to something else.

Have you thought too that's it's likely that however good you are as a martial artist you will most likely be injured in the attack and will yourself need medical attention which will come before explaining to police officers etc?

You've had 8 hours training but not the practical experience, I hope you are never attacked and find out but if you were to be I think you will find it very different and rather than seeing the police as adversarial will see them rather as the people who are actually on the good guys side. The police aren't out to get you, they are there to sort out the truth from the lies.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

I got into a fight in Sheng Yang, China north train station. When 3 Chinese policemen came, I told them that this guy and I got into argument. Our body tangled together, we both lost balance and fell. This guy's head hit on the hard ground. I didn't throw any punches. It was an accident. Those Chinese policemen let me go.

IMO, the throwing art has advantage over the striking art in public self-defense. Lost balance is always a good excuse for your opponent's body injury.

One of my early instructors, who was a former cop and DT instructor, suggested, "We struggled and he fell."

 

[CB Jones]

One of my early instructors, who was a former cop and DT instructor, suggested, "We struggled and he fell."

While you was yelling for any witnesses to hear....Stop Resisting.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

You said he was a ranking officer, that means some one higher up, rank and file means boots on the ground.
Actually adrenaline is the first thing you should talk about, everything you do in the immediate aftermath of an incident is coloured by that, the way you think, the way you respond and what you say. It's fine going through a check list of things you should think about but can you think like that with an massive adrenaline dump? How do you know you won't start burbling instead of logically following the scenario you have set up beforehand.

CB Jones has given you very good advice, I'd follow that rather than the complicated over thought list of things you think will happen and you will do.

On the point of leaving the scene, if you leave automatically rather than just when it's dangerous to stop have you thought how it will look if you leave an injured person lying there without attempting to call an ambulance, do first aid etc. It may sound a bit much after they attacked you but if you leave when it's safe to stay and don't attempt help it takes 'reasonable force' to something else.

Have you thought too that's it's likely that however good you are as a martial artist you will most likely be injured in the attack and will yourself need medical attention which will come before explaining to police officers etc?

You've had 8 hours training but not the practical experience, I hope you are never attacked and find out but if you were to be I think you will find it very different and rather than seeing the police as adversarial will see them rather as the people who are actually on the good guys side. The police aren't out to get you, they are there to sort out the truth from the lies.

CB's list isn't much different from the (not-so-complicated) list wab started with. The essentials are the same.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

While you was yelling for any witnesses to hear....Stop Resisting.

In our case, "I don't want any trouble." Same-same.

 

[CB Jones]

In our case, "I don't want any trouble." Same-same.

Who would have ever guessed "the stop hitting yourself game" would teach you how to communicate during physical altercations.

It all comes together in the end

 

[wab25]

You've had 8 hours training but not the practical experience, I hope you are never attacked and find out but if you were to be I think you will find it very different and rather than seeing the police as adversarial will see them rather as the people who are actually on the good guys side. The police aren't out to get you, they are there to sort out the truth from the lies.

I agree that I have no practical experience, which is why I rely on those who have... and clarified who they were.

I do not see the police as adversarial, not sure what gave that impression, but I apologize for giving that impression if I have. I have many LEOs as friends, many who I train with regularly and am related to one. Again, I apologize for giving that impression.

Actually adrenaline is the first thing you should talk about, everything you do in the immediate aftermath of an incident is coloured by that, the way you think, the way you respond and what you say. It's fine going through a check list of things you should think about but can you think like that with an massive adrenaline dump? How do you know you won't start burbling instead of logically following the scenario you have set up beforehand.

You make a good point about adrenaline. I may start burbling. But, if I have not ever thought about what to do after, what are the chances I do the right thing? I believe that having a simple plan, that you are familiar with and have thought through a few times will be more helpful, then having no plan and hoping to wing it. I could burble then too.

CB Jones has given you very good advice, I'd follow that rather than the complicated over thought list of things you think will happen and you will do.

CB Jones advice seems very similar to mine. Both of us said make yourself safe first. Both said call it in first. Both said to make a short statement, then talk to a lawyer for more. The major difference is that my statement is already thought out. "I <fill in the blank> the other guy." (fill in the blank with shot, stabbed, punched, pushed, fell down with, choked out... whatever I did to him). The rest is all the same. In my adrenaline dump state of mind, I just have to remember what I did to him... I don't have to try to figure out what details to include, exclude...

On the point of leaving the scene, if you leave automatically rather than just when it's dangerous to stop have you thought how it will look if you leave an injured person lying there without attempting to call an ambulance, do first aid etc. It may sound a bit much after they attacked you but if you leave when it's safe to stay and don't attempt help it takes 'reasonable force' to something else.

My view of self defense is getting to the point where I can run away. If someone attacks me, and I can run away... that is the proper response. Run away, call the police. If I have to punch, kick, throw, break an arm or shoot him, to get an avenue to escape fine, as long as I take that avenue. I have no duty to subdue him, or incapacitate him in any way. As a citizen, with 8 hours of training, I call the police, they deal with him. Trevon knocked down the creep following him, then broke his nose. Had he then run away, he would be alive today and none of us would know his name. But he stayed to subdue the creep. So, I guess if I totally incapacitate the other guy, and I know his buddies are not coming around the corner I would stay. If I have to break his arm throwing him down, fine. But I don't want to then stand around waiting to see if he pulls another weapon, or his buddies come around. I get to a point where I can run away, then turn in my man card and pride, and run. As soon as I am in a safe location, I call the police, telling them what happened... an ambulance can be sent as a result of that call. I don't feel the need to stay around and incapacitate the guy, until its safe for me to stand next to him and call an ambulance.

Have you thought too that's it's likely that however good you are as a martial artist you will most likely be injured in the attack and will yourself need medical attention which will come before explaining to police officers etc?

I have. This is why I don't feel I need to stay long enough to incapacitate the other guy. The longer I stay, the better chance I get hurt. The fact that I will probably be injured, is one reason why I want to get to safety as soon as possible. I would rather not pass out from blood loss right in front of my attacker, even if I did just blow out his knee.

I guess if you like a check list that you can practice and run through a few times before having to use it for real, then I have shared mine. If you don't like having a checklist to before hand, and are comfortable winging it, thats ok too. Again, I apologize for giving the impression that one should be adversarial to police, that was not my intent.

 

[drop bear]

Hi,
I do not think that you might get in trouble because he attacked you first and you are just trying to defend yourself.
I have been in many situations where i have to defend myself but I usually hold back a little and do not take it too seriously because you could injure them. The martial arts i have learn is mostly about locking instead of straight on fight to the death.

Mine was with a lock by the way. Hammer locked this junkie and his arm just went crack.

 

[Tez3]

I'm not sure why GP wants to criticise me in his posts directed at me, I was taught to keep things simple, CB does, wab25 doesn't. Simple is best.

My point is, in case it's not understood is that things like attacks never happen how you think they will and that is a problem. Not feeling the need to stop around long enough to incapacitate your attacker, how well do you actually think that will go? the chances are you are going to be in shock after the attacker, you may think you won't be because you've sparred a lot but you will be. This is understood, all you have to say is that you don't feel up to be interviewed at that moment which is more than likely to be the truth not dissembling. Then get checked over medically then you can see whether yo need legal help or not. The chances are high you won't because the police will have checked a lot of things and you will be in the clear (as long as you are and aren't missed any bits of information for any reason)

To be honest I'd worry far less about what happens afterwards than making sure there is an afterwards.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

To be honest I'd worry far less about what happens afterwards than making sure there is an afterwards.

A: What happened to him afterward?
B: There was no "afterward". He was killed in that fight.

 

[drop bear]

Think adversarial. Be polite but understand that a lot is at stake.

Make sure you and all your friends have the same story.

I have friends who have done years in prison for assaults. And known other guys who have walked away after stabbing people.

I still think it is generally better not to involve the police if you don't have to. And I have found the more effort it takes to find and process an offender the less likely anything will come of it.

So when I worked because I was easy to prosecute. I am fixed in one spot, my identity is known and there are cameras everywhere I would get investigated all the time. Now Joe on the street who police might have to find almost never happened.

Shooting someone will be different as the police will probably be involved anyway.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

I'm not sure why GP wants to criticise me in his posts directed at me

Why not ask the person you're talking about, rather than wonder out loud? In fact, I don't think I have criticized you here. I pointed out that I don't see much difference between the two positions you seem to see as dramatically different.

I was taught to keep things simple, CB does, wab25 doesn't. Simple is best.

My point is, in case it's not understood is that things like attacks never happen how you think they will and that is a problem. Not feeling the need to stop around long enough to incapacitate your attacker, how well do you actually think that will go? the chances are you are going to be in shock after the attacker, you may think you won't be because you've sparred a lot but you will be. This is understood, all you have to say is that you don't feel up to be interviewed at that moment which is more than likely to be the truth not dissembling. Then get checked over medically then you can see whether yo need legal help or not. The chances are high you won't because the police will have checked a lot of things and you will be in the clear (as long as you are and aren't missed any bits of information for any reason)

To be honest I'd worry far less about what happens afterwards than making sure there is an afterwards.

I don't really see much difference between this stance and what WAB posted. The three of you (including CB) are suggesting fairly similar approaches, with more or less focus on some areas and some details.

 

[Anarax]

Don't worry, I'm not in a situation where I need a lawyer, nor am I in a situation where I've needed to use my martial arts for self defense. However, let's say that was the case. Someone attacked me, and as a result of defending myself their arm is broken.

Now, I don't want them to go to the ER and say they were mugged by some karate expert who broke their arm and tried to steal their wallet. However, I also don't want to call the police and say "yeah, I got in a fight and broke this dude's arm."

Personally, I don't have a lawyer. I haven't really needed one. So what do I do in this situation?

It's difficult to say, it really depends on state/local laws, injuries you sustained, prior personal/criminal history of you and assailant, etc. The best person to ask would be a local criminal defense attorney. They'll tell you exactly what to say and how to say it. With respect to any other advice you receive on here, take it with a grain of salt. Personal accounts are great to share, but laws like these vary greatly state to state and country to country. Legal advice is best to seek from a legal expert with such sensitive matters.

 

[CB Jones]

The best person to ask would be a local criminal defense attorney. They'll tell you exactly what to say and how to say it.

Problem is that most criminal defense attorneys will just advise you not to say anything without a lawyer present. Which is fine if you don't mind taking the chance of being arrested and having to pay for the legal fees to get out of jail.

One thing you should do is become familiar with your state laws on what you are allowed to do when it comes to self defense. Castle Doctrine, Stand your Ground Laws, is there a requirement to try and retreat, etc...

 

[Tez3]

@GP, certain functions aren't working on this site such as Pm and quotes for me so it's what it is. You criticised me in public so just asking.

Actually I didn't say I disagreed with the poster, I said he was focusing on making it complicated and therefore in the heat of the aftermath of the altercation which he seems to have simplified into the fact he will win, it won't work.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

@GP, certain functions aren't working on this site such as Pm and quotes for me so it's what it is. You criticised me in public so just asking.

Actually I didn't say I disagreed with the poster, I said he was focusing on making it complicated and therefore in the heat of the aftermath of the altercation which he seems to have simplified into the fact he will win, it won't work.

I don't recall criticizing (why does the British spelling seem more natural to me than the US spelling for that word?) you in this thread, Tez.

 

[jobo]

Don't worry, I'm not in a situation where I need a lawyer, nor am I in a situation where I've needed to use my martial arts for self defense. However, let's say that was the case. Someone attacked me, and as a result of defending myself their arm is broken.

Now, I don't want them to go to the ER and say they were mugged by some karate expert who broke their arm and tried to steal their wallet. However, I also don't want to call the police and say "yeah, I got in a fight and broke this dude's arm."

Personally, I don't have a lawyer. I haven't really needed one. So what do I do in this situation?

This is from a UK perspective, but i think most points are universal.

you should most certainly report the incident, some time later, if they catch up with you, its going to give some credibility to your account of being a victim, but there is a fair chance that the other guy has or will when questioned claim you were the instigator , and as such you will be be and treated as suspects in a criminal investigation. The truth is largely irrelevant to the situation, if the police can gather sufficient evidence against one or both of you then you WILL be charged. They may just decieded its to complicated and send it to court to sort out.

as you are a suspect in a criminal investigation you should act , accordingly and be extremely guarded in what you say, if you don't go the whole hog and insist on legal representation before you say anything of note. Anything you say that can be twisted or misconstrued will be twisted or misconstrued. Any thing you say that can later be shown to be inaccurate, will be used to show you as liar and throw doubt on your whole testimony. Even little details you get wrong can be used against you. Only make statments that you are sure are 100% accurate, if you are not that sure, say nothing or explain your doubt. If your not in a fit state to make a statement, say so and DONT.

IF it happened in a public place, there is a fair Chance there is mobile phone footage, but as people only film after a fight has started, then it won't show the start and may well show you as the agressor and that alone may send you to court.

the other guy may well find 10 witnesses that just happened to be walking by and saw you attack him.

as above the police care nothing about the truth only that they have enough evidence to prosicute you, it therefor matters not one bit if the police believe you or not, they either have evidence or they don't, don't give them evidence. They don't have by saying daft things that can come back to haunt you in court.

your every action and word, should be calculated to give you credability in court, and if not that, then not to under one your credability.

 

[Tez3]

Ok, lets get one thing clear. The police DO ( in the UK and I've no reason to doubt it's any different in the US) actually care about the truth. They will work long hours and go out of their way to make sure the correct person is charged for the crime. They aren't helped by numpties who hate the police and constantly run them down because they've had 'dealings' with them in their dim past and feel slighted ( mostly because they were caught doing something they shouldn't)

Note I said charged not prosecuted because in the UK the Crown Prosecution Service is responsible for prosecutions not the police. While there are mistakes made by the police ( show me anyone who never makes a mistake and I'll show you a liar) the police do their damndest to do a very difficult job to the best of their ability. Yes there are bad apples but they usually do get found out and busted.

Slagging the police off is a pointless and stupid thing to do...unless of course you can do the job better especially in the light of the shortage of manpower and the budget cuts.

 

[jobo]

Ok, lets get one thing clear. The police DO ( in the UK and I've no reason to doubt it's any different in the US) actually care about the truth. They will work long hours and go out of their way to make sure the correct person is charged for the crime. They aren't helped by numpties who hate the police and constantly run them down because they've had 'dealings' with them in their dim past and feel slighted ( mostly because they were caught doing something they shouldn't)

Note I said charged not prosecuted because in the UK the Crown Prosecution Service is responsible for prosecutions not the police. While there are mistakes made by the police ( show me anyone who never makes a mistake and I'll show you a liar) the police do their damndest to do a very difficult job to the best of their ability. Yes there are bad apples but they usually do get found out and busted.

Slagging the police off is a pointless and stupid thing to do...unless of course you can do the job better especially in the light of the shortage of manpower and the budget cuts.

in the instant case, the " truth is both relative and subjective, a man has a broken arm, if you are prosecuted for GBH, is just down to if the police can gather enough evidence to support the charge, your case may not be helped by the police conveniently losing, " evidence " that may assist your defence, which for our US friends there has been rather a lot of lately