What is really the difference between TMA and MMA? False Dichotomy...

[Buka]

How about if we go with - wear a Gi, we'll call it TMA. Don't wear a gi we'll call it a MMA.

(I really like the "funny stances line".)

 

[drop bear]

How about if we go with - wear a Gi, we'll call it TMA. Don't wear a gi we'll call it a MMA.

(I really like the "funny stances line".)

Do walkouts count?

 

[K-man]

Joint locks are allowed in mma except for small joint manipulation and standing locks in most styles are kinda hard to use (from my very very limited experience) and some reading
Most "tma" dont focus on eye gouges and joint locks except for maybe eagle claw and aikido

You obviously have never seen Okinawan Goju Ryu.
:asian:

 

[K-man]

How about if we go with - wear a Gi, we'll call it TMA. Don't wear a gi we'll call it a MMA.

(I really like the "funny stances line".)

Don't wear a gi, I call mine Krav Maga or Systema.

 

[Xue Sheng]

Joint locks are allowed in mma except for small joint manipulation and standing locks in most styles are kinda hard to use (from my very very limited experience) and some reading
Most "tma" dont focus on eye gouges and joint locks except for maybe eagle claw and aikido

Pick a CMA, there are joint locks in it to varying degrees. Pick a CMA there is an attack aimed at the eyes in it...... and on both counts.....even in Taijiquan.

But that is neither here nor there, IMO, in another it a long line of beat the dead horse discussions about TMA vs MMA

 

[Xue Sheng]

Somewhere out in the vast wastelands of MT there is a post I made on this I was looking for to link, but I cannot find it.

Suffice to say the difference is One trains hard to not fight unless necessary and when they do fight they hope to never see that opponent again. The other trains hard to fight and expects to see that opponent again.

But there is a caveat

This only applies to TMA schools that actually train, not the ones you see doing the forms dance and beleivi9ng they are invincible.
And the MMA school has to be a real MMA school, not one that calls itself MMA because they think it makes them awesome

 

[drewtoby]

Somewhere out in the vast wastelands of MT there is a post I made on this I was looking for to link, but I cannot find it.

Suffice to say the difference is One trains hard to not fight unless necessary and when they do fight they hope to never see that opponent again. The other trains hard to fight and expects to see that opponent again.

But there is a caveat

This only applies to TMA schools that actually train, not the ones you see doing the forms dance and beleivi9ng they are invincible.
And the MMA school has to be a real MMA school, not one that calls itself MMA because they think it makes them awesome

Let us define "actually training" then. That is what a lot boils down to.

 

[Xue Sheng]

Let us define "actually training" then. That is what a lot boils down to.

Thought I already did.... just did not get into detail...and that would apply to both TMA and MMA schools by the way

beyond that I don't much care and I leave this argument to others that have not already been through it copious times, over the years, on MT.

 

[donnaTKD]

my muay thai training involves cardio sessions, weights sessions, bag sessions, full contact sparring sessions, pads sessions and whole heap of drills, drills and more drills until quite frankly everyone has had enough of doing drills and then we do some more - drills

oh and i forgot we keep doing all this until we can't physically do anymore

 

[Transk53]

Let us define "actually training" then. That is what a lot boils down to.

Already defined, it is down to the student how much training they do, it is not the art!

 

[donnaTKD]

i also think that it depends on the art you study as to how hard you feel you need to work at it --- muay thai fighting needs to be rehearsed every single day for hours and hours on end just to drill everything in and get the timings and speed right for it.

some arts you train at your leisure - muay thai you can't cos you'll just get found out bigtime...........

 

[Transk53]

i also think that it depends on the art you study as to how hard you feel you need to work at it --- muay thai fighting needs to be rehearsed every single day for hours and hours on end just to drill everything in and get the timings and speed right for it.

some arts you train at your leisure - muay thai you can't cos you'll just get found out bigtime...........

On one hand yes, but that does not have to be confined to the art, but that does also not mean the fight, you would be inhibiting yourself to the norm. Speed is natural for example, you cannot train that, you can only make the strikes count. Speed though, can be light weight, the slower strike can have much impact.

 

[Steve]

While "how" you train makes a difference in how quickly you can learn something, what you're learning and how you're testing proficiency are, IMO, the two most important ingredients in developing a skill.

How you train, ie the mechanics of your training, may make your learning more or less efficient. But the efficacy of your techniques and your methods for testing proficiency will make far more difference. You can learn solid technique inefficiently, and still develop technique. But if you're learning the wrong thing to begin with, you'll never make any headway.

 

[Transk53]

While "how" you train makes a difference in how quickly you can learn something, what you're learning and how you're testing proficiency are, IMO, the two most important ingredients in developing a skill.

How you train, ie the mechanics of your training, may make your learning more or less efficient. But the efficacy of your techniques and your methods for testing proficiency will make far more difference. You can learn solid technique inefficiently, and still develop technique. But if you're learning the wrong thing to begin with, you'll never make any headway.

I agree Steve, but I am leaning towards street. Technique is a marker of the art, you have it yes, but sometimes, intrinsic becomes the norm!

 

[drewtoby]

Thought I already did.... just did not get into detail...and that would apply to both TMA and MMA schools by the way

beyond that I don't much care and I leave this argument to others that have not already been through it copious times, over the years, on MT.

Good point. This thread seems to be closed, as this discussion is truly a circular one.

 

[Buka]

On one hand yes, but that does not have to be confined to the art, but that does also not mean the fight, you would be inhibiting yourself to the norm. Speed is natural for example, you cannot train that, you can only make the strikes count. Speed though, can be light weight, the slower strike can have much impact.

Actually, you can train speed. Taught a class on speed last night, a corker of a workout, too. I'm kinda stiff today from it, made my afternoon workout slow and sore today. Fun, though. Everyone should train speed, in stand up fighting, anyway.

Donna - I don't know about that "some arts you train at your leisure" hell, leisure ain't training, not one little bit. But you description of your Muay Thai was spot on. That's the way to train.

 

[Transk53]

Actually, you can train speed. Taught a class on speed last night, a corker of a workout, too. I'm kinda stiff today from it, made my afternoon workout slow and sore today. Fun, though. Everyone should train speed, in stand up fighting, anyway.

Donna - I don't know about that "some arts you train at your leisure" hell, leisure ain't training, not one little bit. But you description of your Muay Thai was spot on. That's the way to train.

Okay, but you can only go to the limit of what is natural, you cannot go beyond that. That was what I meant Buka

 

[donnaTKD]

your training is there to push your limits - the only limiting factor in training is YOU and how hard you want to push yourself.

when i train - i train full on for an hour or more at any one time, there's n oroom for being lazy cos lazy = slow and that'll get you killed. you train speed through your punches, you build the muscles in your arms and shoulders so they can throw that punch faster with a quicker recoil on it so that any retaliation causes minimum damage.

and speed in any MA is built up over time - i can remember not being able to go the distance and getting properly trashed now i got the speed to protect myself a lot better and my reactions ro events are a lot more focused and dialed in --- i might not know what's coming next but cos of my reactions being better i can react better to the threat.

 

[Reedone816]

If I my join in, the was someone wrote about two old mmartis and tmartist.
Basically it said about mma that has certain peak like a parabole upside down, while tma is its opposite, you can still grow even in old age.
Some martial artist that rely too much on physical attributes will only go downward once you reach your peak age, while martial artist that rely on technique's understanding can still perform well even in the old age, like gene lebell and helio gracie (rip) that can still roll with the young.
That is why tma call their trainer master and boxing called their trainer coach.
To me imho tma is when a grand master of the art can still beat the world gold medalist of the art.
Sent from my RM-943_apac_indonesia_207 using Tapatalk

 

[K-man]

If I my join in, the was someone wrote about two old mmartis and tmartist.
Basically it said about mma that has certain peak like a parabole upside down, while tma is its opposite, you can still grow even in old age.
Some martial artist that rely too much on physical attributes will only go downward once you reach your peak age, while martial artist that rely on technique's understanding can still perform well even in the old age, like gene lebell and helio gracie (rip) that can still roll with the young.
That is why tma call their trainer master and boxing called their trainer coach.
To me imho tma is when a grand master of the art can still beat the world gold medalist of the art.

I agree with the sentiment but in most TMAs there is no gold medalist because there is no competition. However, that said, I agree that the older you get, the better you get. You understand that in most situations you can't use physical against physical any more and start to use your head.
:asian: