Shizen Shigoku
Purple Belt
Enson: "...why does a simple internet forum have to be so politically correct. why can't someone that obviously disagrees with whatever system just stay away? i don't think "jkd" should be a real style... but if the practicioners want to have a forum... so be it. i'm not saying not to question things... but... does it really make a difference to you? you want to impress someone with all your knowledge... place yourself apart in your training and in what you teach. not jump on every practicioner of the style you disagree with. that to me is silly and immature."
You are completely missing the point. The disagreements from the traditionalists have nothing to do with political correctness, impressing people with knowledge, segregation, 'jumping on practicioners,' or disagreeing with style.
It is really, really simple, and I'm amazed that it is so hard to understand. Ninjutsu is a Japanese word with a specific definition that refers to a particular group of arts. If someone calls what they do ninjutsu, when it is not ninjutsu, then they are lying to people. That's it. It's that simple. That is the only complaint.
If someone teaches kung fu and calls it karate, they are lying to people. No matter how nice they are, how effective their style is, or how happy their students are. The fact remains that they are ok with deceiving and misleading people, and that is a problem. It hints to underlying character traits that many people find objectionable.
"The trad. folk wanted us out of jma section... "
For obvious reasons: Discussing non Japanese arts.
"they said as long as we were out of their area we could talk about our styles in freedom... "
I don't remember seeing anyone say that.
"...those that do not study... buj, gen, jen, kling whatever... are not in the jma section... "
Because they are not Japanese in origin, so it only makes sense...
"...we still get hammered."
Why do you think that is?
"...what one must understand is that the styles practiced here are not trying to be the buj. why compare what is being done?"
Again, completely beside the point. Comparisons are irrelevant.
"... if the practicioners thought the buj was superior... they would pay the buj fee and ....."
Irrelevant.
"... now we are being told ninjutsu should not be even mentioned when it comes to our arts."
Why do you think that is?
Really. ?
Segregation? Please, that has nothing to do with it. This has nothing to do with "we are better, you suck" so we want to keep everybody separate. Ninjutsu is a Japanese art that is discussed in a Japanese art section, everything else that is not Japanese, and is not ninjutsu, shouldn't be discussed in a Japanse art section, and it should not be called ninjutsu. If the founders of these other arts just didn't lie to people, there would be no complaints.
"... american ninjutsu is something that is done in america. why is that so hard for people to accept."
I accept that American arts are done in America, I accept that there are people practicing ninjutsu in America. I do not accept that there are people practicing non-ninjutsu in America and calling it ninjutsu.
"... they state the obvious saying "thats not the way its done in japan, or thats not japanese ninjutsu what you guys are doing"... who cares? not me! i for one am not trying to be a buj practicioner or any other style."
Still irrelevant. It is obvious isn't it? You don't have to be in the buj' but if you're not or not in one of its derivatives, then you are simply not doing ninjutsu. It's a shame that the only authentic ninjutsu left in the world flows from Hatsumi sensei, but that's just the way it is.
I read the article by Mr. Tew -
"A[font='Times New Roman', Times, Serif, serif] paper trail will not help you to survive a life or death situation. Just because you are born or bred as part of a lineage does not mean you will succeed either. "[/font]
[font='Times New Roman', Times, Serif, serif]Irrelevant. Discussing effectiveness and authenticity of lineage in the same sentence is meaningless, they are two completely separate issues.[/font]
[font='Times New Roman', Times, Serif, serif]"History in the martial arts dictates that there is a tendency to see the East as the primary source of martial traditions, but the East does not have a monopoly on fighting arts .."[/font]
[font='Times New Roman', Times, Serif, serif]Obvious, yet obfuscating. Again it is besides the point. No one is saying that an art has to come from Japan to be real or effective. [/font]
[font='Times New Roman', Times, Serif, serif]"We teach under the system of Martial Science Ā which happens to be an American System regardless of any monopolies or influence foreign instructors have ..."[/font]
[font='Times New Roman', Times, Serif, serif]No one is saying he can't call what he does Martial Science. That is an accurate name. He can even say that the science is based on or influenced by ninjutsu. Nothing wrong with that. But calling it American Ninjutsu is rediculous.[/font]
You are completely missing the point. The disagreements from the traditionalists have nothing to do with political correctness, impressing people with knowledge, segregation, 'jumping on practicioners,' or disagreeing with style.
It is really, really simple, and I'm amazed that it is so hard to understand. Ninjutsu is a Japanese word with a specific definition that refers to a particular group of arts. If someone calls what they do ninjutsu, when it is not ninjutsu, then they are lying to people. That's it. It's that simple. That is the only complaint.
If someone teaches kung fu and calls it karate, they are lying to people. No matter how nice they are, how effective their style is, or how happy their students are. The fact remains that they are ok with deceiving and misleading people, and that is a problem. It hints to underlying character traits that many people find objectionable.
"The trad. folk wanted us out of jma section... "
For obvious reasons: Discussing non Japanese arts.
"they said as long as we were out of their area we could talk about our styles in freedom... "
I don't remember seeing anyone say that.
"...those that do not study... buj, gen, jen, kling whatever... are not in the jma section... "
Because they are not Japanese in origin, so it only makes sense...
"...we still get hammered."
Why do you think that is?
"...what one must understand is that the styles practiced here are not trying to be the buj. why compare what is being done?"
Again, completely beside the point. Comparisons are irrelevant.
"... if the practicioners thought the buj was superior... they would pay the buj fee and ....."
Irrelevant.
"... now we are being told ninjutsu should not be even mentioned when it comes to our arts."
Why do you think that is?
Really. ?
Segregation? Please, that has nothing to do with it. This has nothing to do with "we are better, you suck" so we want to keep everybody separate. Ninjutsu is a Japanese art that is discussed in a Japanese art section, everything else that is not Japanese, and is not ninjutsu, shouldn't be discussed in a Japanse art section, and it should not be called ninjutsu. If the founders of these other arts just didn't lie to people, there would be no complaints.
"... american ninjutsu is something that is done in america. why is that so hard for people to accept."
I accept that American arts are done in America, I accept that there are people practicing ninjutsu in America. I do not accept that there are people practicing non-ninjutsu in America and calling it ninjutsu.
"... they state the obvious saying "thats not the way its done in japan, or thats not japanese ninjutsu what you guys are doing"... who cares? not me! i for one am not trying to be a buj practicioner or any other style."
Still irrelevant. It is obvious isn't it? You don't have to be in the buj' but if you're not or not in one of its derivatives, then you are simply not doing ninjutsu. It's a shame that the only authentic ninjutsu left in the world flows from Hatsumi sensei, but that's just the way it is.
I read the article by Mr. Tew -
"A[font='Times New Roman', Times, Serif, serif] paper trail will not help you to survive a life or death situation. Just because you are born or bred as part of a lineage does not mean you will succeed either. "[/font]
[font='Times New Roman', Times, Serif, serif]Irrelevant. Discussing effectiveness and authenticity of lineage in the same sentence is meaningless, they are two completely separate issues.[/font]
[font='Times New Roman', Times, Serif, serif]"History in the martial arts dictates that there is a tendency to see the East as the primary source of martial traditions, but the East does not have a monopoly on fighting arts .."[/font]
[font='Times New Roman', Times, Serif, serif]Obvious, yet obfuscating. Again it is besides the point. No one is saying that an art has to come from Japan to be real or effective. [/font]
[font='Times New Roman', Times, Serif, serif]"We teach under the system of Martial Science Ā which happens to be an American System regardless of any monopolies or influence foreign instructors have ..."[/font]
[font='Times New Roman', Times, Serif, serif]No one is saying he can't call what he does Martial Science. That is an accurate name. He can even say that the science is based on or influenced by ninjutsu. Nothing wrong with that. But calling it American Ninjutsu is rediculous.[/font]
[font='Times New Roman', Times, Serif, serif]"The English created "Cricket" which we turned into "Baseball" and it is now as American as Apple Pie. "[/font]
[font='Times New Roman', Times, Serif, serif]Yes, but Americans don't call what they do American Cricket.[/font]
[font='Times New Roman', Times, Serif, serif]"Have you heard of Football, Basketball or Baseball? So who is to say that we don't have the ability to develop or enhance any foreign concept?"[/font]
[font='Times New Roman', Times, Serif, serif]Ever heard of anyone playing American Football and calling it Rugby?[/font]
[font='Times New Roman', Times, Serif, serif]The rest of the article was very nice but continued to throw in "effectiveness is more important than authenticity" as a red herring to the primary issue. It also made the common accusation that traditional systems are outdated, when in fact they have been evolving just as much as the Modern or American systems (but have been doing so for far longer).[/font]
[font='Times New Roman', Times, Serif, serif]All in all, it was a long, fallacy-filled excuse for getting away with lying to people.[/font]
they why don't you change? "we did its called buji", okay why argue if someone is using a name you abandoned? 
): 
