What does a Black Belt mean to you?

[silatman]

A BB to me means that I get my tattoo, YAY!!.
When I first started training I promised myself that I would get a tattoo to symbolize my dedication and training if I ever made it to BB.
Over the years I have designed it and redesigned it and now it is ready to go. It incorporates a dragon, the club logo and the words empty hand and I cant wait to get it inked, not long now.

 

[tshadowchaser]

If I give a Black belt to a student ( not honrrary becasue I will never do that stupid thing again) it means that they can do all the basic forms, selfdefence, etc, and have a decent mental and physical development. It also means I know they can pass on that much knowledge to others in a intelligent manner.
It also means that I can trust that person not to abuse therir knowledge.

What it dose not mean is that they have learned all there is in the system or that I feel they have learned all that comes with what they already have. some knowledge comes with time and experence and is not testable. some knowledge or your preception of the way things happen and work change the more you do them and the more you learn.

I look at black belts as haveing achived a goal set by their instructor ( and this differes from one to another) to be an instructor and nothing more. Now I admit that I see some as haveing more knowledge and ability than others and no that some would only be a green belt in a different system but IT'S not my call to judge another mans ranking system

 

[kamishinkan]

When I started training, I looked to the day that I would be a Black Belt. It was my goal. I really believed that Black Belts were IT! Then I got my Shodan, I began training in our Nidan waza, how little I knew! Needless to say the waza got more intense (for lack of a better word) the higher the rank. I would not have known this as a kyu rank. In the art I train in, to be a Shodan is to have a good understanding of the basic movements and techniques and prepared for the upper level Black Belt techniques.
If I am not mistaken (I could be) I thought the Kyu terminology MEANT "Sub-Rank" that is why the kyu ranks are numbered backwards. Shodan is 1st level or more correctly "lowest grade".

 

[terryl965]

I'd sooner listen to a Muay Thai guy with three fights under his belt, than a 5th dan who can talk it but has never actually had to push themselves beyond the "routine" threshold

Kickcatcher no offense here but why would you be more incline to lidten to a guy with three fights under his belt than someone with probaly 20-35 years under there belts, just because someone has been in three control fights in Muay Thai which if I'm correct have sets of rules to follow when they fight just like evry other sport aspect of Martial Arts.

I personally will take advice from the guy who never been in a fight with a 5th dan and has 20-35 years of training and has been able to stay out of trouble that is the guy for me, he knows what true MArtial Art is about avoiding confortation.
Terry

 

[kickcatcher]

Kickcatcher no offense here but why would you be more incline to lidten to a guy with three fights under his belt than someone with probaly 20-35 years under there belts, just because someone has been in three control fights in Muay Thai which if I'm correct have sets of rules to follow when they fight just like evry other sport aspect of Martial Arts.

I said on the specific subject of self-discipline. My point is that insight is often more about what you have experiened rather than how long you have been a martial artist - hence belt ranks are generally irrelevant. On the topic of self-discipline, the fact that they are "controlled" fights isn't that important - the chances are that someone with three full-contact fights knows what it feels like to get up in the third round, knackered and knowing they are going to get hit some more - that takes more self-disciplin than a lifetime of kata practice or whatever, at least in my book. Someone having a "3rd dan" is no indicator in itself how far someone has pushed themselves in the face of resistance (Kyokoshin etc aside) - full contact fights, though not perfect, do at least give a good indication of that. Therefore, if I want to hear about self-disciplin, I'd sooner listen to someone who has pushed themselves that bit further, and being a blackbelt in itself doesn't tell me that.

I personally will take advice from the guy who never been in a fight with a 5th dan and has 20-35 years of training and has been able to stay out of trouble that is the guy for me, he knows what true MArtial Art is about avoiding confortation.

Why are you assuming that someone who does full-contact sports MA is somehow worse at staying out of trouble? - and why is that a good gauge of self-disciplin anyway???

 

[shesulsa]

Kickcatcher, I understand what you're trying to say and where you're trying to go with the experience thing, because I just told my instructor recently that I could never be the martial artist he is. I've never gone to combat, I've not competed - of course it's not what I got into it for - I haven't and probably won't ever do most of the things that he has done in his lifetime to become as accomplished and as knowledgeable as he is.

Then he brought up the name of another very significant martial artist in our system and said, "he hasn't done certain things either, but would you say he is not a great martial artist?" And I certainly would NOT say that of that particular man.

As much as I appreciate and understand your desire for a unilateral benchmark by which one can measure all blackbelts, arts, techniques, etcetera, and as much as we can create one based on competitions and the like, the martial arts are such a broad-spectrum study that this is just not feasible.

Good luck in your endeavors, however.

 

[kickcatcher]

As much as I appreciate and understand your desire for a unilateral benchmark by which one can measure all blackbelts, arts, techniques, etcetera, and as much as we can create one based on competitions and the like, the martial arts are such a broad-spectrum study that this is just not feasible.

I have no such desire or agenda. I merely think "being a blackbelt" means nothing special, at least not in any universal sense, and that in itself it is not a very good indicator of skill, knowledge, wisdom or experience.

 

[MSUTKD]

My teacher always says, “Black Belt means nothing, YOU have to make it mean something.”

ron

 

[Kacey]

My teacher always says, “Black Belt means nothing, YOU have to make it mean something.”

ron

Indeed. After I tested for I Dan, I was given two belts: one, from the head of my organization, who gave out belts to everyone who tested for I Dan in front of him, and one from my instructor. The one from my instructor meant more to me, because it was proof that I had met a standard set by someone whose opinion was meaningful to me - I didn't know the head of the organization that well, but my instructor had worked with me from white belt onward, and set a high bar to cross for black belt. His signature on my certificate, signifying his belief that I had met that standard, meant more to me than anything else - the belt was merely the visible sign of that belief. I started teaching shortly thereafter, as teaching others what I has been taught was the only way I could see that would repay the time and effort my instructor gave me - and continues to give to this day.

 

[bMunky]

A blacb belt means to me that I can finally teach, LOL. If I could teach with out it I would'nt bother. I asked my sensei what belt she was and she told me that she honestly forgot. I had to go online and go to the official danzan site to find out what belt she was, found out she was a professor, haha, how can you forget your a professor in danzan ryu jujitsu haha.

 

[BrandiJo]

i dont have a black belt im not even close, but iv been taught that its just another stepping stone. You have proven yourself to such a point but why stop when you reach there keep learning and keep growing

 

[BrandiJo]

my computer hates me it posted a ton of times im really sorry

 

[BrandiJo]

ack many double posts not sure what happend

 

[jfarnsworth]

I personally will take advice from the guy who never been in a fight with a 5th dan and has 20-35 years of training and has been able to stay out of trouble that is the guy for me, he knows what true MArtial Art is about avoiding confortation.

I have often said to people that I'd rather learn from a 2nd or 3rd degree that still has the fire and desire to learn and train; rather than an 8th or 9th that got promoted from the good 'ole boy system. Sure the stripes make you go ohhhhhhhhhh, ahhhhhhh, but the guy standing there training hard at every class is who I'd rather align myself with.

 

[tkd_jen]

The camaraderie is where I get my greatest joy now. There is a definite camaraderie with all the students in that class and in my own school, but there is a special camaraderie among folks that have done the same thing, the same [hard]way you have. That's what a black belt means to me.

Stone_dragone, that is a great point. Another student I train with, we have trained and tested together since yellow belt. We have trained for hours together and I wouldn't trade that experience for anything. It's cool how we can push each other to get better, train harder. The comraderie is an awesome thing to be a part of. Great post!

 

[DeLamar.J]

Me and my wife, (I'm an ikkyu getting ready to test for shodan in may, and she's a sandan), were talking about the meaning of a Black Belt when she came home from work this morning. I tend to have a very bare bones idea of what it means, and she has a more philisophical one.

What are your ideas on the meaning of a black belt, or your styles equivalent? Any stuff out there besides having a good grasp of the basics? Does your style have any deeper symbolism attached to it?

Just curious about your thoughts on the matter.

Sorry if this has been done before, tried doing a search for it but I'm pretty dense when it comes to such matters.

A black belt is just another sheep trophy now. They should have little sheep lined up instead of stripes to signify each degree of black belt. LOL! I know there are still some real black belts out there, it is just way to easy to get one now.

 

[evenflow1121]

A bb to me means that the person has the competency and a solid understanding of the BASIC foundations of the system. It means that the person holding the bb is a fighter, but nothing more than that, just a fighter. Just someone who hopefully can hold his or her own in the least a one on one situation, but has the potential, I hope, to further that training and become a great practitioner one day, nothing more than that.

 

[cfr]

A BB really doesnt mean a whole lot for me, but I also think that if means a lot to you, go for it! I think that I have different ways to gauge my progress that Im satisfied with(and so are those I train with).

I really agreed with some of KickCatcher's points. Where I train, there are no belts. That being said, will I never get to REALLY start learning as I'll never get a BB? Will I be training the rest of my life never really having the basics down as a result of not going to a school that charges me for a belt test? I also agree that the discipline of those guys that train in those *combative sports filled with rules* is what most impresses me. Not to say that Im not impressed with those who have been in other arts for many moons, its just not my flavor. Also for the record, theres plenty of BB's I'd never want to have to fight.

 

[SFC JeffJ]

I'm guessing in the "beltless arts", there comes a time in the training where you begin to surpass the basics, and use the lessons that the basics taught you to start to really make the style, art, or what have you really your own. In my thinking, that's just the same as when the more traditional arts award thier BB or equivalent. Just my thoughts on the matter.

 

[Hand Sword]

It means that I'll finally get the good stuff!