The true meaning of the black belt

[rickster]

Wow.....I hope you'll note that no where in my post did I mention self-image or symbol of excellence...my intent was to express the goal of not just the belt, but also the work, responsibilities, and path that we continue on once we BE-come black belts...BE-ing a black belt is not just the BE-ginning, but a moment that should be celebrated....of course, not the end all be all of our time in training....but absolutely, something to take pride in...it is definitely a learning process and I love the fact that I learn more at every training session...I consider it a privilege and an honor to not only learn from my instructors, but be trusted enough to help others along their journey as well...I also feel that is part of what BE-ing a black belt is all about.

I am sorry if my message was interpreted by you, but I hope this will help to clarify my intent.

***bows***

Respectfully, I do not think signs or letters like that are nothing but a advertisement to keep a student enrolled.

Hence that what the belt/belt rank is.

This is a marketing tool in order to maintain a student base.

Because without it, the student base will drop.

I think the merit/experience/quality of the instructor should stand alone without the need for "Black Belt" signs and letters.

Famous martial art iconic instructors, never had to rely on this medium

With Sincerity......

 

[ks - learning to fly]

you know what's funny is that compared to some facilities I've seen, ours is smaller and in no way as fancy as some of the bigger schools I've visited and yet we have over 200 members and are growing all the time....and IMOH, if that was due solely to a sign on the mirror, that would just be unusual....bottom line is until you visit our dojang and see the quality I've experienced for yourself, you can save your judgement calls for someone else.

Respectfully...

 

[Gentle Fist]

Respectfully, I do not think signs or letters like that are nothing but a advertisement to keep a student enrolled.

Hence that what the belt/belt rank is.

This is a marketing tool in order to maintain a student base.

Because without it, the student base will drop.

I think the merit/experience/quality of the instructor should stand alone without the need for "Black Belt" signs and letters.

Famous martial art iconic instructors, never had to rely on this medium

With Sincerity......

It is funny because in Judo and Gracie JJ, I have seen the complete opposite as far as rank advancement keeping students around... There is a few (half dozen of so) guys that I have trained with that sandbag their rank so the can stay in "easier" divisions at competitions. One guy skipped like three brown belt testings in GJJ so that he could stay a purple belt. Another guy always took his stripes off his blue belt (from the sleeve) so that he could avoid testing for purple belt. The instructor finally caught on after he threw away like his 10th stripe In judo I have seen a few guys sandbag their brown belt for years to avoid being in the spotlight that comes with a Shodan ranking...

At the end of the day there are guys that are MORE skilled than you, LESS skilled than you, or EQUAL to you... What belt they wear around their waist is irrelevant...

 

[Chris Li]

I posted more of this somewhere else, but it's also applicable here...

There's a pretty good article by Donn Draeger about ranking here.

As he notes, correctly, there is absolutely no relation between the ranking system in modern martial arts and the martial traditions in Asia, or with the warrior classes.

There were no ranks at all, before 1883 and Jigoro Kano. Kano was an educator, and adopted a system (including the black belts - the colored belts were imported from Europe later on) that was in use in the school system - for swimming, for children. I don't know if the black ribbon the swimmers wore (which is where Kano got the black belt) had any particularly deep meaning, or not...

IMO, the rank system works well - for children. For adults it causes more problems than it solves.

Of course, it is a cash cow for most schools...

Best,

Chris

 

[rickster]

It is funny because in Judo and Gracie JJ, I have seen the complete opposite as far as rank advancement keeping students around... There is a few (half dozen of so) guys that I have trained with that sandbag their rank so the can stay in "easier" divisions at competitions. One guy skipped like three brown belt testings in GJJ so that he could stay a purple belt. Another guy always took his stripes off his blue belt (from the sleeve) so that he could avoid testing for purple belt. The instructor finally caught on after he threw away like his 10th stripe In judo I have seen a few guys sandbag their brown belt for years to avoid being in the spotlight that comes with a Shodan ranking...

At the end of the day there are guys that are MORE skilled than you, LESS skilled than you, or EQUAL to you... What belt they wear around their waist is irrelevant...

I guess skill is of more concern than rank

 

[Steve]

It is funny because in Judo and Gracie JJ, I have seen the complete opposite as far as rank advancement keeping students around... There is a few (half dozen of so) guys that I have trained with that sandbag their rank so the can stay in "easier" divisions at competitions. One guy skipped like three brown belt testings in GJJ so that he could stay a purple belt. Another guy always took his stripes off his blue belt (from the sleeve) so that he could avoid testing for purple belt. The instructor finally caught on after he threw away like his 10th stripe In judo I have seen a few guys sandbag their brown belt for years to avoid being in the spotlight that comes with a Shodan ranking...

At the end of the day there are guys that are MORE skilled than you, LESS skilled than you, or EQUAL to you... What belt they wear around their waist is irrelevant...

I've discretely removed a few stripes over the years, but less to sandbag than to just slow things down a little. That said, when I get my black belt, Im gonna wear it with pride.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[rickster]

you know what's funny is that compared to some facilities I've seen, ours is smaller and in no way as fancy as some of the bigger schools I've visited and yet we have over 200 members and are growing all the time....and IMOH, if that was due solely to a sign on the mirror, that would just be unusual....bottom line is until you visit our dojang and see the quality I've experienced for yourself, you can save your judgement calls for someone else.

Respectfully...

Hey, I am not judging a book by its cover.

But 98% of schools I have visited over decades, that have "Black Belt" Signs, are in there to "sell" the rank.

That said, the quantity of students does not have to be the belt alone.

It can be the location, economy of said location, and other competitors.

Bottom line;

That said, I wonder how many schools could maintain a enrollment if they announced they will be getting rid of ranking all together.

 

[MSTCNC]

A black belt is a marker. Everything before is a set of directions for a journey. Everything after IS the journey.

Personally, I couldn't of said it any better!

Black is the new white! It marks one trip around the Sun that is the Martial Arts. Some make it... some get sucked in by the gravitational pull of their ego...

 

[Gentle Fist]

I've discretely removed a few stripes over the years, but less to sandbag than to just slow things down a little. That said, when I get my black belt, Im gonna wear it with pride.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Aw... so we have another stripe disposer amongst us

 

[Buka]

With all due respect to all, the discussion is about fashion. And fashion only.

 

[Chris Parker]

I posted more of this somewhere else, but it's also applicable here...

There's a pretty good article by Donn Draeger about ranking here.

As he notes, correctly, there is absolutely no relation between the ranking system in modern martial arts and the martial traditions in Asia, or with the warrior classes.

There were no ranks at all, before 1883 and Jigoro Kano. Kano was an educator, and adopted a system (including the black belts - the colored belts were imported from Europe later on) that was in use in the school system - for swimming, for children. I don't know if the black ribbon the swimmers wore (which is where Kano got the black belt) had any particularly deep meaning, or not...

IMO, the rank system works well - for children. For adults it causes more problems than it solves.

Of course, it is a cash cow for most schools...

Best,

Chris

Some clarification here is warranted.

There were absolutely ranks in Japanese martial arts before Kano, but not Kyu/Dan ranking. And the colour belt idea was simply so Kano had an idea of the relative experience and skill of students he hadn't met before at a glance, so that's not even necessary for Kyu/Dan ranking to be applied (think of Iaido, Kendo, etc, where the colour of the obi [belt], uniform, etc have absolutely nothing to do with relative rank, which is Kyu and Dan grades). The ranking that was used (and still is in a large number of older systems) was referred to as the Menkyo (licencing) ranking system. These ranks/licences were awarded for a variety of reasons, and were always individual to the Ryu (system).

When Draeger talks about "no Japanese Jujutsu art uses Dan ranks", that might have been true when he wrote that, but it's not true these days. There are numerous classical Japanese systems that either have adopted the Kyu/Dan ranking approach completely or in conjunction with the more traditional licencing system.

There's more, but that's enough for now.

 

[Steve]

With all due respect to all, the discussion is about fashion. And fashion only.

Absolute statements like this are misleading. In some styles, this may be true. In others, it is not.

 

[Buka]

Absolute statements like this are misleading. In some styles, this may be true. In others, it is not.

I can't argue that. I know what you mean, and I agree. But it's still a means to an end. (And it's one hell of a great means.)

 

[LeandrodeSouzaCardoso]

I think when Jigoro Kano (the founder of judo and inventor of the belt system, that afterwards was adopted by others martial arts) was to incentive, reward the students by their work, afterward it meaning the respect by the more experienced fighters. Sun Tzu art of war said "the soldiers must receive their rewards and punishments" and "the man should be divide in the proper ranks" supporting both uses. But no, it don't means any proof of skill and is useless in a fight.

 

[rickster]

Simple:

Take away the rank/belt, and we'll see how many "Karate Kids" are going to stay.