What does a Black Belt mean to you?

[kickcatcher]

So you base someones fight skill on how many, if any at all, sport type events they've fought in?? Certainly does not sound like a solid base to go off of. If this is what you go off I'd have to say that you have a very distorted view of the Martial Arts. I don't need to enter a MMA event to know how my skills are. I know many people that do not compete in the sense you're talking about, that are more than confident with their skill level.

Also, keep in mind that many of those people you're basing this off of...the MMA crowd...devote the majority if not all of their time to training. Just because someone may not have the body of Shamrock, does not mean that they are incapable of defending themselves.

Out of curiosity, what is your MA experience?

Why have you written a lot about MMA when I have mentioned sport-MA, which includes all manner of rule sets, and is only one of several factors I might try to use to gauge fighting ability. You seem to have an anti-MMA agenda. As for my experience I have 12+ years in MA in various arts, spending the most time in Karate and TKD. I'd say my experience is pretty broad.

 

[MJS]

Why have you written a lot about MMA when I have mentioned sport-MA, which includes all manner of rule sets, and is only one of several factors I might try to use to gauge fighting ability. You seem to have an anti-MMA agenda.

No sir, I do not have an agenda, nor am I anti MMA. I enjoy MMA fights and am a faithful viewer of the UFC. My collection of MMA/NHB fights is quite large. However, based upon your posting history, you seem very MMA, pressure testing oriented. Looking at some past posts, I get the impression that you do not look very highly of anything that is outside of the MMA realm.

As for my experience I have 12+ years in MA in various arts, spending the most time in Karate and TKD. I'd say my experience is pretty broad.

Thank you.

 

[SFC JeffJ]

This conversation is going in an interesting direction.

Very interesting indeed. Nothing like I had in mind when I started the thread. Very interesting though.

Jeff

 

[cfr]

Those who practice an art that does not use a belt system or other comparable heirarchy often put little stock in the system and feel the belt is meaningless. While the belt itself is meaningless and anyone could buy one of any color they want from any supplier, it is supposed to be symbolic of one's growth within their art and should have some meaning. We just cannot agree upon what that meaning is, esp. for the coveted Black Belt.

For the record, a BB is meaningless FOR ME. As I've mentioned, if it works for you, go for it! I see different ways of measuring progress, some inline with KickCatchers measurements, and some not.

 

[thetruth]

Hi All
I haven't read all the posts but here are my thoughts. My 1st dan test in a past style was a 13 hour marathon. It really just gave me another little reminder of what I am capable of with regards to stretching my limits and achieving a goal. Having said that I left that instructor over a year ago, took a flame thrower to my certificate and gave my belt to a friend(same rank,another ex-student of the same instructor). It is all about what is inside each of us and is never in an external thing such as a belt, certificate or another persons opinion of you because of that achievement.

Now I can imagine those from BJJ circles not believing in such things as belts are GENERALLY awarded by serving time on the mat with no special gradings or whatever. I however believe that gradings are a good thing and should push students to breaking point which is something that rarely comes from regular training.

Just some thoughts
Cheers
Sam

 

[Flying Crane]

For the record, a BB is meaningless FOR ME. As I've mentioned, if it works for you, go for it!

I think you are dead on. My comments were intended for those practicing an art that uses a belt. For those that don't, or who otherwise choose not to follow the belt system, it has no meaning. This is a personal position and we all have our own feelings about it.

 

[Bill Shaw]

This is just a first impression, and just like a black belt it's self it doesn't always mean anything... but when I see a Black Belt, I look to see how much WHITE is showing through. And if it is natural wear or faked. (Fake is easy to spot, and it's done more often than you would think do it.) I also watch to see if their movements match the belt.

Ultimately though, it is the individual that matters... In many schools of old, colored belts were more for the instructor to quickly know who was at what stage to know who can work with who - and what aspect of skills they should be developing, etc.. I see Black belts similarly except that it does make a useful tool as a goal for students to aim at acquiring a level of excellence.

I really like what Steve Golden often says about it; "A Black Belt doesn't mean anything - Unless, you don't have one."

 

[Kenlee25]

A fellow student and I talked about this a little once. We both conceded that the vast majority of what you learn and what you do is at the black belt level. Around brown or red belt, sparring intensifies and you are allowed to use more contact and hit to the head ( thus you begin to get even better at it ). The forms intensify especially at black, you get access to the practice of weapons and other insider details.

So really, getting one's black belt is just an indicator that your real teaching in the arts have begun. In my opinion, one MUST get their black belt in their chosen art and stay with it for a while before they begin to cross train or even look into any other arts. I believe that earning your black means that you have a grasp of the basics, but does NOT mean you can call yourself a proficient martial artists. That is when you have enough of a grasp in your art that you may begin to deviate from it if you so choose and find what works and what does not work for you. Black belt is where you begin to develop your own style, your philosophies, your own training method.

Obtaining a black belt, to me, Means you have earned the right to call yourself under the general term "Martial Artist" rather than "a practitioner of *insert art here*"

 

[ralphmcpherson]

This is just a first impression, and just like a black belt it's self it doesn't always mean anything... but when I see a Black Belt, I look to see how much WHITE is showing through. And if it is natural wear or faked. (Fake is easy to spot, and it's done more often than you would think do it.) I also watch to see if their movements match the belt.

Ultimately though, it is the individual that matters... In many schools of old, colored belts were more for the instructor to quickly know who was at what stage to know who can work with who - and what aspect of skills they should be developing, etc.. I see Black belts similarly except that it does make a useful tool as a goal for students to aim at acquiring a level of excellence.

I really like what Steve Golden often says about it; "A Black Belt doesn't mean anything - Unless, you don't have one."

"A Black Belt doesn't mean anything - Unless, you don't have one." I like that

 

[chrispillertkd]

"One of the greatest misconceptions within the martial arts is the notion that all black belts are experts. It is understandable that those unacquainted with the martial arts might make this equation; however, students should certainly recognize this is not always the case. Too often, novice black belts advertise themselevs as experts and eventually even convince themselves.

...

The first degree is a starting pont. The student has merely built a foundation the job of building the house lies ahead.

The novice black belt will now really begin to learn technique.

In Taekwon-Do, there are three different classifications of black belts. I-III degree are considered "beginners," IV-VI degrees are "experts," and VII-IX degrees are "masters." Acquiring a I dan is a respectable accomplishment and the standard set out by Gen. Choi entails over 500 hours of training time under an instructor's supervision.

It is interesting to note that Gen. Choi's requirements for training hours increases as the absolute length of time to reach I dan decreases. So the shorter the time it takes you to reach I dan means you will have actually undergone more training time. Want a I dan in one year? It'll take 4 hours of training 6 days a week for 1248 hours of training time under an instructor's supervision. Not going to be very common, but it's possible. But even so, a I dan is going to have a very different grasp of Taekwon-Do than a IV dan or a VII dan.

Other arts wil have different standards, of course.

Pax,

Chris

 

[Daniel Sullivan]

Different arts have different meanings for a black belt. In most, it represents a first dan or greater practitioner. In some of those, it means first through about fifth or sixth, and then red belt or a red and white paneled belt comes after that. Some arts/orgs attach philosophical meaning to the belt colors (the ATA is a good example of this) beyond just noting kyu vs. dan.

Kendo does not use belts, but I learned at an independent school and the GM gave everyone a belt when they passed their tests. Inspite of kendo being an art that I took up in my thirties, it is the one that means the most to me. As for what a first dan actually means, it means that you have learned the basics of kendo. Nothing more.

When I earned my taekwondo black belt, it meant that I had a first dan. It signaled a new stage in my training. It also was an important milestone for me. I had started training in taekwondo when I was seven and advancement much beyond green belt was always derailed, and when I finally got ready to test in 1990, my life was radically altered by the news that I had a child on the way. My son, and later my second son, got involved in taekwondo and I with them, and I tested for first dan at the age of 41.

As for what a first dan/pum actually means, it means that you have learned the basics of taekwondo. Nothing more. And nothing less, as learning the basics in anything is an accomplishment and also is the stage where your toolbox has been filled with the tools that you will need for the rest of your journey. You may add more tools later, but the ones that you really need are in that box (or should be) by first dan/pum.

 

[Black Belt Jedi]

I first tend to think that getting your black belt means you finish the training. That is not true. A black belt means that you are a beginner in terms of learning new things. It's like I am a black belt physically but a white belt mentally. I was new while teaching classes, assuming a leadership role is a big responsibility, learning to mark grading papers and learning the ways of juding in tournaments. On top of that learning more katas that are advance. Who says you are finished when you reach black belt? Big misconception, being a black belt marks a new beginning of your training.

What a black belt means is being a leader, being knowledgeable, never giving into greed, ego, or arrogance, being a role model. You don't have to be a teacher or own a dojo, just live a positive life and be on the straight and narrow path.

 

[puunui]

To me, 1st Dan means advanced beginner. I try to get people to this level come hell or high water. Once they reach this level, I tend to leave them alone. If they don't want to come to class or if they don't want to get promoted, then I don't encourage or force them to. They are black belts, they can make their own decisions about how much further they wish to go. But I try real hard to get everyone to 1st Dan.

 

[puunui]

Obtaining a black belt, to me, Means you have earned the right to call yourself under the general term "Martial Artist" rather than "a practitioner of *insert art here*"

To me, a wearer of a white belt who has begun training has earned the right to call themselves a "martial artist"as well as a practitioner of *insert art here*.

 

[puunui]

I really like what Steve Golden often says about it; "A Black Belt doesn't mean anything - Unless, you don't have one."

Actually I think it is the other way around - a black belt doesn't mean anything, unless you have one (and want to keep as many people from getting it as possible, such as kids, etc.). Then you hear all kinds of explanations about what a black belt means, signifies, represents, etc.

 

[Grasshopper22]

To me, a black belt should be the ultimate goal. I see no need for a 10th Dan, if so many belts can be achieved in the space of about 50 yeasr of martial arts training (which I appreciate is a lot of time), in my eyes a black belt should be the equivalent of what 10th Dan is today, not many people should be able to achieve the,, only the best of the best.