What Do You Think Are The Most Effective Karate Styles?

[RRouuselot]

1)Nunya, but he trained under Fusei Kise who was a 6th dan in Shorinjiryu at the time (in the 1960s).

2)What have I posted on here that was unfounded or not true? Go back and look at what I posted and tell me I was wrong about something. If you find any discrepancies then you know I'm fallible, but 99% of what I post is cor-frickin'-rect, Bobby Bogu!

Look he does Richard Kim-ish Shorinji Ryu, the Japanese flashy variety. That's that. I'm not saying it's not a good karate ryuha, just that it's not really Okinawan anymore, so stop saying it is. Yes Seibukan has schoolboy technique in their karate and so do most Okinawan karate brands. A good adult style of Okinawan karate uses realistic stances and techs. Just like good, functional Tai Chi uses more upright stances and a lot of whipping motion. Same, same.

Anyway, you guys do you and I'll do me. Now go pay 220 yen for a skinny arsed 4 ounce coke, Rob. 'Nuff said!

1) nunya????Never heard of him. Kise Fusei.........I have met him and know several of his former students......I would not be proud to say I learned from him.

2)You throw out claims/comments and have nothing to persuade us to believe them. It’s like me saying I saw the Loch Ness monster.......of course someone is going to say “prove it”.
So if what you have posted is 99% correct then back it up with some sort of proof for those people that doubt you.



I , as well as others, have noticed that when guys like you make claims that can’t be coroborated you start getting defensive, calling people names, being rude etc.....

 

[TimoS]

Nunya, but he trained under Fusei Kise who was a 6th dan in Shorinjiryu at the time (in the 1960s).

What has Fusei Kise to do with Renshinkan ? I just read something about him, very briefly admittedly, and he seems to have trained in Seibukan at first, but there is no mention of Zen Nippon Shorinji ryu Renshinkan karatedo (the official name of Renshinkan). His own style seems to be Kenshinkan, so maybe you are confused by those two names ?

 

[Ippon Ken]

What has Fusei Kise to do with Renshinkan ? I just read something about him, very briefly admittedly, and he seems to have trained in Seibukan at first, but there is no mention of Zen Nippon Shorinji ryu Renshinkan karatedo (the official name of Renshinkan). His own style seems to be Kenshinkan, so maybe you are confused by those two names ?

Not Seibukan, Okinawan Shorinji Ryu. Nowadays he doesn't have such a good reputation. He used to be one of the most respected sensei on Okinawa. That was before the late 80s when his miindset and teaching methodology drastically changed ($$$$$$$$$). He did OKINAWAN Shorinji Ryu and you do JAPANESE Shorinji Ryu. HUUUUUGE difference! Like I said you do a great style, but it is not of the original intent.

Rob, what you have to understand is that Kise can still kick butt even at his advanced age. Just because he now concentrates on sport karate and making money doesn't mean he can't do the real stuff. He just doesn't teach it anymore. There was a time, like when my sensei first learned from him in the late 60s, that he was feared and respected. So say what you want about Kise, but everyone knows that most karate-ka could never compare with his knowledge and fighting ability, Okinawan or otherwise. He has been fighting for real and in the ring for many decades now, and a lot of modern teachers owe him a great debt of gratitude.

I didn't insult a damn body. I told the truth and what proof are you looking for? It's just words versus words. If you want truth we'd have to meet up and train together and see where each of us stands. You might not like that though as your truths might be shattered and with it your presumptuous MAs world. I know what is real and what is purported to be so. Gigantic difference!

Too much talkie-talkie, I have to go train...

 

[RRouuselot]

:-offtopic

Not Seibukan, Okinawan Shorinji Ryu. Nowadays he doesn't have such a good reputation. He used to be one of the most respected sensei on Okinawa. That was before the late 80s when his miindset and teaching methodology drastically changed ($$$$$$$$$). He did OKINAWAN Shorinji Ryu and you do JAPANESE Shorinji Ryu. HUUUUUGE difference! Like I said you do a great style, but it is not of the original intent.

Rob, what you have to understand is that Kise can still kick butt even at his advanced age. Just because he now concentrates on sport karate and making money doesn't mean he can't do the real stuff. He just doesn't teach it anymore. There was a time, like when my sensei first learned from him in the late 60s, that he was feared and respected. So say what you want about Kise, but everyone knows that most karate-ka could never compare with his knowledge and fighting ability, Okinawan or otherwise. He has been fighting for real and in the ring for many decades now, and a lot of modern teachers owe him a great debt of gratitude.

1)I didn't insult a damn body. I told the truth and what proof are you looking for? It's just words versus words. If you want truth we'd have to meet up and train together and see where each of us stands. You might not like that though as your truths might be shattered and with it your presumptuous MAs world. I know what is real and what is purported to be so. Gigantic difference!

Too much talkie-talkie, I have to go train...

1) You should read through some of your old posts where you had no problem throwing out insults and slurs against people on here. Your teacher must be real proud of you.

As for Kise I have heard both good and bad about him both from the physical side and moral side.

 

[tshadowchaser]

Gentlemen. this has been a very good and informative thread for the most part.

Let’s keep it that way please.

Information is one thing trying to insult each other . Lets just discuss systems and their teachers.

 

[Saitama Steve]

What have I posted on here that was unfounded or not true? Go back and look at what I posted and tell me I was wrong about something. If you find any discrepancies then you know I'm fallible, but 99% of what I post is cor-frickin'-rect, Bobby Bogu!


Anyway, you guys do you and I'll do me. Now go pay 220 yen for a skinny arsed 4 ounce coke, Rob. 'Nuff said!

I have been reading this post for the past week. With great interest, since I don't have a lot of experience in Okinawan Karatedo. These quotes above are really the only thing that has tarnished what has otherwise been a quite educational and enjoyable thread.

Now if these quotes above aren't condescending and insulting, I don't know what is.

Oh and BTW Ippon Ken, a 500ml bottle of coke is 150 Yen. You should come over to Japan more often mate.

Respect,

 

[BlackCatBonz]

all martial arts styles roads lead to the top of the same mountian.

shawn

 

[Scout_379]

all martial arts styles roads lead to the top of the same mountian.

shawn

I've heard that before. tru dat.

 

[TimoS]

Not Seibukan, Okinawan Shorinji Ryu. Nowadays he doesn't have such a good reputation. He used to be one of the most respected sensei on Okinawa. That was before the late 80s when his miindset and teaching methodology drastically changed ($$$$$$$$$). He did OKINAWAN Shorinji Ryu and you do JAPANESE Shorinji Ryu. HUUUUUGE difference!

Okinawan Shorinji ryu ? You mean Joen Nakazato's style ? I'm asking because after reading few webpages about Fusei Kise it was mentioned that he studied with Zenryo Shimabukuro. On the other, according to Seibukan history (here) he didn't study directly with Zenryo Shimabukuro

And yes, the style I practise is a Japanese style, no question about it, but as to the difference, what do you think they are ? Previously you said

...the other Kyan ryuha I've seen place the most emphasis on kata and 2-man drills, with limited sparring at the kyu ranks.

Any other differences ? Because in my opinion this fits perfectly into how we're taught here in Finland. I cannot say anything about how others are being taught in different countries (including Japan), since I've never trained anywhere else, but in Finland Matsuoi sensei teaches us, again only my opinion, quite traditionally. For example "limited sparring at the kyu ranks". I'm 1. kyu and only now we've started having some lessons about kumite techniques and tactics.

Like I said you do a great style, but it is not of the original intent

That is entirely possible, but what really is the original intent ?

 

[RRouuselot]

all martial arts styles roads lead to the top of the same mountian.

shawn

Totally off topic......I just went to your website and noticed what I think is the kanji for "kuri" = chestnut at the top of your page. Is there any reason for that kanji?


Regarding the saying "all martial arts styles roads lead to the top of the same mountian."........well yes and no.......REAL arts do BS arts don't.

 

[RRouuselot]

........Any other differences ? Because in my opinion this fits perfectly into how we're taught here in Finland. I cannot say anything about how others are being taught in different countries (including Japan), since I've never trained anywhere else, but in Finland Matsuoi sensei teaches us, again only my opinion, quite traditionally. For example "limited sparring at the kyu ranks". I'm 1. kyu and only now we've started having some lessons about kumite techniques and tactics..........

Timo,

I dont think Ipponken has trained in, let alone seen, the style you practise and he is commenting on in Japan or Finland. Take it from someone who has lived and trained in Okinawa and Japan......from what I can tell of the description you and the other website have put forth it is very "Okinawan-esque". Having said that....not all dojo in Okinawa train the same way, some use deep stances some dont......some spar some dont.....Ipponken has a right to his own opinion, I am just wondering what exactly it is based on.......

 

[BlackCatBonz]

well......why would one refer to BS arts in the first place?
for someone so wise, wouldnt that be obvious?

shawn

 

[RRouuselot]

well......why would one refer to BS arts in the first place?
for someone so wise, wouldnt that be obvious?

shawn

Because most people, even some martial artist, don't know the difference between BS arts and real arts.

 

[Ippon Ken]

I have been reading this post for the past week. With great interest, since I don't have a lot of experience in Okinawan Karatedo. These quotes above are really the only thing that has tarnished what has otherwise been a quite educational and enjoyable thread.

Now if these quotes above aren't condescending and insulting, I don't know what is.

Oh and BTW Ippon Ken, a 500ml bottle of coke is 150 Yen. You should come over to Japan more often mate.

Respect,

Yeah I should.

I'm being silly not insulting.

Oh and that coke quote is called "hyperbole".

No worries' bub'! 'Nuff respect back atcha!!!

 

[BlackCatBonz]

Because most people, even some martial artist, don't know the difference between BS arts and real arts.

very true

shawn

 

[RRouuselot]

Yeah I should.

I'm being silly not insulting..........

I think you are being both.

 

[Ippon Ken]

I apologize for both then. Does that make you feel better?


They're words man, and truths spoken from a singular perspective. Agree to disagree and leave it at that.

Timo: I don't doubt you do good Japanese karate. Like I said originally. It's like Motobu-Ha-Ha Shito Ryu. I mean that style is more "Ha" than Motobu for sure. Not to say it isn't good Japanese karate. It, just like Renshinkan, is not Okinawan karate. That's all I was saying. So what's the big deal? Be proud of what you do and know that just because I disagree with your assumption of what is Okinawan karate and what ain't, doesn't mean that I don't respect you and all good karate-ka.

At least I'm giving you the benefit of the doubt.

Peace and happy training!

 

[TimoS]

Timo: I don't doubt you do good Japanese karate. Like I said originally. It's like Motobu-Ha-Ha Shito Ryu. I mean that style is more "Ha" than Motobu for sure. Not to say it isn't good Japanese karate. It, just like Renshinkan, is not Okinawan karate. That's all I was saying. So what's the big deal? Be proud of what you do and know that just because I disagree with your assumption of what is Okinawan karate and what ain't, doesn't mean that I don't respect you and all good karate-ka.

You know, I've never claimed that Shorinji ryu Renshinkan was Okinawan. What I've said that it is in Kyan lineage, and that is a fact. To me what is much more important than training in an Okinawan style is the teacher and our sensei is very good at what he does.

 

[RRouuselot]

1)They're words man, and truths spoken from a singular perspective. Agree to disagree and leave it at that.

Timo: I don't doubt you do good Japanese karate. Like I said originally. It's like Motobu-Ha-Ha Shito Ryu. I mean that style is more "Ha" than Motobu for sure. Not to say it isn't good Japanese karate. It, just like Renshinkan, is not Okinawan karate. That's all I was saying. So what's the big deal? Be proud of what you do and know that just because 2)I disagree with your assumption of what is Okinawan karate and what ain't, doesn't mean that I don't respect you and all good karate-ka.

1 & 2) That is what has been the point of several of my questions to you.
What characteristics do you consider qualifies a style to be "Okianwan" and what doesn't?

Concerning the phrase “agree to disagree”........whenever I have seen that written on these boards it has been written as a copout by people that can’t support or convey their opinions with anything.

 

[DRMiller]

The most effective Karate style is whatever works for you to protect your life or the ones you love. It doesn't necessarily have to be oriental in nature and Martial arts are worldwide and come from every culture. Basic self defense skills can be effective in many situations. If your looking to be invinsible then forget it. That has nothing to do with a style there are many tough people on the streets that just grow up with the ability to do harm and have no formal training in Karate at all. Find one you like and put your best into it and it will be effective for you.