What Do You Look For?

[MJS]

In light of all of the rank threads and kids getting black belts, I figured what the heck, may as well start another on a similar note.

My question is simple...when you promote someone, either kids or adults, what do you look for as far as what determines whether or not they get promoted? Now, I'm not looking for a solution. I'm simply looking to discuss what you use as the determining factor.

 

[celtic_crippler]

Proper execution of techniques; crispness, proper use of weapons to targets, timing, aggression & intensity...

Knowing particular principles and how to apply them effectively.

Forms must be precised and crisp with proper placement and footwork.

Basically, they have to execute the curriculum for their belt level to the point where they could adequately coach a lower rank in that particular curriculum. There's no point introducing new material if they don't have the current material down. IMHO

I forget who the quote is attributed to but it goes something like, "If you have to stop and think about how to execute a technique then you haven't practiced it enough."

 

[MJS]

Obviously some leeway can be given for lower ranks. We need to keep in mind that the coordination isn't going to be there on day 1. However, even if the person is new, they should still look somewhat sharp. If their stances suck and they dont have power, IMO, that tells me that they need more work. Of course, people will be nervous and thats to be expected. So if someone does 10 techs. and 2 kata, and out of that, 4 techs. are a bit shakey, the other 6 are sharp, and the katas are good, I"m fine with passing them on. Of course, I also believe in making the person aware of their mistakes. By holding that back from them, IMO, thats doing more harm than good. This of course, doesnt have to always be done in front of the entire group.

Once the intermediate ranks are reached, I'd expect the beginner mistakes to be fixed. If you can't have power and stances by purple or blue, theres some issues.

The upper or advanced ranks...well, by that time, the students should not only look good and perform good, but be able to think outside the box. They should be able to adapt if the tech. they are doing starts to fail. What do they do? Do they just stand there, or just keep going? Can they be put into a new student teaching position, and be capable of executing the material as well as being able to answer questions about the material? Can they be put in front of a class, or put with a group of people and maintain control? In other words, can I take a 16yo BB candidate, assign him to work with 10 yellow belts, who are the same age or younger, and expect that he can watch what they're doing, help with polishing a technique up, and make sure that everyone stays focused?

As the student goes up in rank, a certain amount of toughness is also required. When performing a tech or being the attacker for a tech., how do they act? Are they timid and afraid or are they confident in what they're doing? Are they attacking in a realistic manner, meaning, when they grab, are they really grabbing or just placing their hands on the person?

These are just a few things that come to mind, to help get the ball rolling.

 

[suicide]

performance

some times when you test you get nervous in the lower belts and techs. get a lil distorted so for me its performance.

:knight2:

 

[ChingChuan]

Can they be put into a new student teaching position, and be capable of executing the material as well as being able to answer questions about the material? Can they be put in front of a class, or put with a group of people and maintain control?

If I may ask, what do you do when someone does know the material and is capable of executing it to your standards, but can't teach at all? Would that be a reason to hold someone back? Just wondering...

 

[jks9199]

Under black belt:

I look for them to know the appropriate material, and to have a reasonable understanding of the principles. Green belts should know the white belt material, and look like a green belt doing it. Brown belts should know the white & green material, and look like a brown belt while doing it. There are different elements and understandings that I look for at each level, and they should be "backwards added" meaning that the prospective brown belt should have integrated those principles into the stuff white belts learn, not just the new stuff.

With kids, I also look at their effort and development. Kids don't get promoted above brown belt -- and I only promote kids in their mid to late teens to brown (say, 14 to 16). The goal is that when they're 18 and eligible to test -- they are ready both technically and "personally."

Black belts:
A candidate for black belt should know the material, and be able to instruct the basics. They need to be able to apply principles on the fly; I expect a black belt to learn something much more quickly and then to apply that lesson across everything than I would expect for an underbelt. That understanding and technical maturity is the key, in my mind, to being a black belt. It's where you find the ability to present material in different ways to help students. I'm not suggesting a brand-new black belt has the depth of one who has been teaching for 20 years in reframing material -- but they should have enough to adapt to a couple of different ways of teaching it as needed.

 

[Nomad]

Roughly in order of importance:

1) Performance of the techniques.

2) Good rooting and application of principles in delivery of power.

3) Composure when something doesn't go as planned.

4) Determination to succeed no matter what happens in the test.

 

[dbell]

In light of all of the rank threads and kids getting black belts, I figured what the heck, may as well start another on a similar note.

My question is simple...when you promote someone, either kids or adults, what do you look for as far as what determines whether or not they get promoted? Now, I'm not looking for a solution. I'm simply looking to discuss what you use as the determining factor.

Using the "traditional" (and I use that term in the "new traditions" sense) 10 Kyu belting system, up until 3rd Kyu (form 10th up to and including 2nd Kyu) I look for good or growing form in doing the techniques, ability to do those techniques and forms from 10th Kyu to current ranking.

From 3rd Kyu to 1st Dan, they need to start showing in their actions and presentation of the art that they are looking into the meaning and reasoning behind what they are doing.

At 1st Dan testing, they need to show that they have grasped the techniques to that point physically, can do all of them, without reminder, and they need to show that they are ready to assist in teaching, meaning that they, over the last three Kyus have been working on showing others the Art.

At 3rd Dan, they need to show that they understand the meaning and philosophy of the Art, know the techniques well, and can teach both the techniques, meaning and philosophy of the Art.

At 3rd Dan, they would be able to open a school, so they need to know what they are doing within the Art, and be able to teach the Art.

To answer ChingChaun's question about being able to teach the Art, if I don't see that, they will probably stay as 2nd Dan, and not receive their license to teach the Art.

(Remember, a belt is only good within that system, and is a means of showing others within that system their level of training. If a person hasn't been granted permission to teach by their Sensei/Soke/Etc, which is typically 3rd Dan in most "Traditional" (same meaning as above) schools, if they open a school anyway it would probably be under a "new" name of an art, and not under the Art they learned, as they do not have authority to pass that Art on..)

 

[terryl965]

For me it is determination and techniques being proformed at the right intensity during a test. I put more into how they have grown over the years and their understanding to our Art of TKD. I keep a folder with copys of all test and notes on what they have done in every class plus what they do to fully understand the concept I am teaching. I also encourage all my students to look at other Arts and see what can be added to help them become more efficent withen the Arts.

Anybody can have a great day for a test but it take someone a lifetime of greatest to be a Black Belt.

 

[Twin Fist]

I am a severe bite in the *** when it comes to promotion.

For example, people stay white belts under me for an average of 3-4 months. Thats twice as long as average for American TKD schools, and my gold belt test has a lot on it.

one form

4 strikes (jab, rev punch, ridgehand and back fist) done wth lead hand and rear hand

front and round kicks (pick up and slide up)

Back Kick

Blocking set

Kicking set

5 self defenses

QnA

Aside from the material, i dont say "thats an ok punch for a white belt" I want that punch (or kick or whatever) to be RIGHT from day one.

I train BLACK BELTS from day one.

What I mean is that the technique is either right or wrong, there isnt very much if any middle ground.

now, it is i admitt an unachievable goal, but i think it is a worthy goal all the same.

 

[celtic_crippler]

I also won't necessarily fail someone for not doing a technique A-Z as written, but I will fail someone who stops in the middle of technique because of a brain fart or due to a not-so-great uke.

You won't be attacked "properly" in the street so you better be able to adapt.

..know what I mean?

 

[dancingalone]

I want to see power or "pop" foremost among my beginning students. They can add fluidity and accuracy later, but they to understand from start that none of this means anything if you can't stop someone cold in his tracks when you need to.

 

[MJS]

If I may ask, what do you do when someone does know the material and is capable of executing it to your standards, but can't teach at all? Would that be a reason to hold someone back? Just wondering...

Teaching is something that is not an overnight thing. It was a requirement at my first Kenpo school, that the BB candidates be capable of teaching. When I started, it was just the warmups. Shouldn't take much to be able to do jumping jacks, push and sit ups, etc. From that point, I moved to warmups and then the basics, ie: punches, kicks, etc. There were times when we'd break into groups, after learning a tech. I would walk around watching, assisting with quesitons, etc. I'd be put in charge of a few beginners, working on their material.

One day I walked in and my inst. told me that the entire class was mine. He was there in case I needed help, but otherwise it was all me.

So yes, the teaching is started early enough, before black, to get people familiar with it.

 

[still learning]

Hello, This will always be a "problem" of how, why and who should get promotions...especially the Black belts..!

Most schools have a some kind of requirements before testing. Just that many students will pass at different levels of knowledge and effort.

Like a school grades of A,B,C,D, and F's .....A's & B's student is easy to promote....those that fall in the C and D areas? ...very judgemental here..F's is off course is easy fo figure out.

Your "Instincts" ...should be your judge if making these promotions. If they know the materials that is required.

Best way? ....Yes or NO ...NO grading...Did they pass according to your own personal feelings and feeling. Did they know the materials they needed to know and perform them well enough!

Promotions should be a Judgement call...and each of us will form our own beliefs of those we teach and how we promote...

For Students testing...Either they know it or don't?

If everyone passes all the time? ....is this good? Expect the best always...

Use your own expections of what is expected.

Pass or NO passing.....Your the Judge, Jury and Teacher....What is your expections? ....as Teacher, and for your Students...What are you teaching them if everyone always passing?

Aloha

 

[Milt G.]

In light of all of the rank threads and kids getting black belts, I figured what the heck, may as well start another on a similar note.

My question is simple...when you promote someone, either kids or adults, what do you look for as far as what determines whether or not they get promoted? Now, I'm not looking for a solution. I'm simply looking to discuss what you use as the determining factor.

Hello,
In a nutshell...
(if that is possible? )

I look for a good working knowledge (and a level of "mastery") of all the basics, techniques and kata. AND the ability to apply same effectively. I do consider time in grade issues as well, at each level. I am not conducting any "races" to black belt. I think some balance is key.

Of course, individual considerations (physical, or other limitations) should be accounted for as well.

Just a "nutshell"...

Thank you,
Milt G.

 

[Chris Parker]

In light of all of the rank threads and kids getting black belts, I figured what the heck, may as well start another on a similar note.

My question is simple...when you promote someone, either kids or adults, what do you look for as far as what determines whether or not they get promoted? Now, I'm not looking for a solution. I'm simply looking to discuss what you use as the determining factor.

Hi,

It depends on the rank being assessed, really. Being such a broad-based system (traditional unarmed and weapon arts, modern applications, stand up, grappling [stand up], ground work, weapon defence, security-style applications, and much more) it can be hard to test a student on everything, even based in just a particular grade. So we tend more to test a "sample" of aspects of our art.

At lower grades, just getting the basic technical aspects is pretty much enough, as a student moves into the lower-mid grades, then the mindset is starting to be emphasised. Moving through the grades, the student will need to continue to show the correct spirit regardless of the techniques being tested, as well as demonstrate an understanding of the strategies and tactics (by taking traditional techniques and developing modern interpretations. If the modern takes are not realistic in terms of the attacks, and using gross motor responces etc, then that is not a pass).

As we move into Dan grades, the student needs to have gone through a real maturation. This includes gaining a greater understanding of the larger martial arts world (we encourage experiencing other arts, specifically ones such as BJJ, MMA, Krav Maga, Kickboxing etc, as well as attending available RBSD Courses), go through a First Aid course, ideally have completed a Teaching/Training Course, as well as having completed a number of home training courses, and a few in-house ones. Then it is all tested.

But really, the testing day itself is not what gets the pass. It is the way the student has approached the class itself, and how we have seen them develop. And that is always individual. We are always watching...

 

[ralphmcpherson]

Hello,
In a nutshell...
(if that is possible? )

I look for a good working knowledge (and a level of "mastery") of all the basics, techniques and kata. AND the ability to apply same effectively. I do consider time in grade issues as well, at each level. I am not conducting any "races" to black belt. I think some balance is key.

Of course, individual considerations (physical, or other limitations) should be accounted for as well.

Just a "nutshell"...

Thank you,
Milt G.

That last point about physical limitations is a good one. Some people due to an accident , permanent sports injury etc may just be unable to perform a technique and this has to be taken into account to some extent. One of the grading requirements at my club is a jump spinning hook kick to break timber at above head height. There are a lot of people who dont start till after the age of 50 and may have bad knees or a back injury and that kick may be literally impossible for them. Some people believe no break means no promotion with no exceptions other people believe these circumstances should be taken into account when grading but it can create quite a grey area.

 

[Daniel Sullivan]

In light of all of the rank threads and kids getting black belts, I figured what the heck, may as well start another on a similar note.

My question is simple...when you promote someone, either kids or adults, what do you look for as far as what determines whether or not they get promoted? Now, I'm not looking for a solution. I'm simply looking to discuss what you use as the determining factor.

First, define kids and adults. I do not think that anyone would have a problem with a person starting an art at the age of ten and receiving a black belt at fifteen, but by no means is that fifteen year old considered an adult.

At a test, GM Kim, in a thick, deep bass Korean accent, always says, "I want to see your mind." Meaning intellect, attitude and spirit. There is a language section at each test and of course, forms, breaking, sparring, and a selection of techniques.

Intellect: He gives out the test sheets with the language and all of the required form and technique for the test well ahead of time. He expects you to be practiced and to know the language at the time of the test and to know what you are doing with regards to form and technique.

Attitude: He expects you to show up on time for the test. In uniform, with the uniform clean and reasonably wrinkle free with your belt tied correctly. He expects you to be quiet through the course of the test exept at points when the testee should verbally respond. You are to conduct yourself with the same measure of seriousness as you do for a test in school. Students are expected to respond and perform in a manner that shows that they care about what they are doing, rather than just going through the motions.

Spirit: He expects you to execute your technique with snap and power, to not give up when sparring, and when performing the forms, he looks for the you to be performing the techniques not just correctly, but as if you are actually using them against an opponent. When sparring, he wants to see you show determination and to try hard, using the techniques that you have learned up to this point. If you get hit or knocked down, injury aside, he expects you to get up and keep going without whining.

His philosophy is that if the student's mind is right, then the physical will follow. The test is, however, very physical. He wants the student to show these qualities at the limit of their endurance. He figures that anyone can show them when they are not being pushed.

Daniel