What Do The Tenets of Taekwondo Have to Do With Hate?

[chungdokwan123]

Well your posts do come across as the somewhat pompous writings of an induvidual with an inflated opinion of himself.

Friend, I looked back at my posts and truly saw nothing that could be construed as pompous. If you will check back, I think you'll find that I've asked as many questions as I've offered opinions. I haven't suggested that I can do anything better than anyone else. I haven't challenged other opinions as being incorrect.....at most I've merely offered a differing opinion. If you feel otherwise, I do apologize to you. I would offer to improve myself in this regard, however, I simply do not see where I could have offended anyone.

Inflated opinion of himself? I have, for most of my life, held a very "under-inflated" opinion of myself. In fact, I go to extreme pains to be objective due to an ingrained fear that I might be wrong. I honor truth, regardless of incurring reward or harm. I harbor strong opinions up to the point where I am proven wrong.....and I then embrace the correction.

Just didn`t see the need to chime in on this since I prefer to stick to the topic at hand.

That was my intention from the beginning. I desired nothing else.

However you might concider listening to Tez` words....

Thank you for the suggestion, however, I have seen nothing but deranged castigation based on a contrived notion that I consider myself to be superior. There's simply no truth to the allegations rendered. I think the individual in question desires argument for the sake of said......and I have no inclination to engage in that.

....your tone can really make you hard to take serious.

Thanks for a positive suggestion. I will try to be more clear in my posts.

 

[Tez3]

A deranged castigator, well there's an almost Shakespearan insult for you lol!

If someone will tell me how to put that under my avatar and username I shall certainly use it!

I will add however my castigating is purely verbal, none of that hanky panky thank you.

Chungdokwan, in your posts and replies to people, not just to me you have been dismissive, sarcastic and at times verging on insulting. You bring up MMA then claim not to be talking about it, being very sharp with me at one poiont. Don't bring something up if not willing to discuss it. You have been quite pompous about others posts too so it's interesting when you take offence at your posts being criticised.
I'll allow that you may not have realised your sharpness at some points, that you are new to here and maybe haven't taken our measure yet. Stick around and you'll find that fitting in even when you are as eccentric as I am is easy.

 

[dortiz]

Sometimes threads just need to go away.


Dave O.

 

[Cirdan]

A deranged castigator, well there's an almost Shakespearan insult for you lol!

If someone will tell me how to put that under my avatar and username I shall certainly use it!

You should, I certainly would. It is high praise indeed.

And about the eccentrics here, it is part of why I stick around. Just another word for interesting.

 

[terryl965]

What a great way of saying I love you!!!!!

 

[chungdokwan123]

Chungdokwan, in your posts and replies to people, not just to me you have been dismissive, sarcastic and at times verging on insulting.

I'm going to give you an example of how you obviously do not thoroughly read, and/or comprehend what I have posted.

I posted in a rather long-winded manner:
"I stand at the brink of digression concerning the topic at hand. I find myself in what appears to be a singular minority regarding my thoughts on the importance of our tenets"

You replied:

I'm sorry, this sentence is nonsense and shows great conceit on your part....

Had I placed myself in said minority regarding "the importance of our tenets", the I would agree with your accusation of conceit on my part. However, I referred to "my thoughts", i.e.,.....I seem to be alone in my way of thinking. That's far from conceit.

You bring up MMA then claim not to be talking about it, being very sharp with me at one poiont. Don't bring something up if not willing to discuss it.

No.....I brought up UFC. You then translated that into an attack on MMA.....and I never refused to discuss anything.

You stated:

Don't think that because you have a written code that you are better than anyone else, the most sporting, generous and upright people I know happen to be MMA practitioners and fighters so don't sneer at us, it goes against your 'respect' stuff somewhat doesn't it?

I have never thought, suggested, or directly expressed any feeling of superiority or anything resembling said because of a written code or anything else. You created that misunderstanding. That thought never crossed my mind.

You have been quite pompous about others posts too so it's interesting when you take offence at your posts being criticised.

I don't take offense at my posts being criticized......I take issue with them being characterized incorrectly.

I'll allow that you may not have realised your sharpness at some points

You are correct in your assessment......as I never intended to be sharp. Was it the broccoli thing? Hell.....I thought that was rather humorous. Now criticize my sense of humor if you wish.

.......that you are new to here and maybe haven't taken our measure yet.

Just as you haven't yet taken mine......yet you seem to feel that it's okay to respond as though you have.

Stick around and you'll find that fitting in even when you are as eccentric as I am is easy.

Eccentric? Me? Now there's a characterization that I can agree with.

 

[Tez3]

So much for letting me have the last word rofl! :lfao:

The UFC comment was a snide comment about MMA yes, then you chose to remind me that this thread was about TKD, somewhat sharply actually but you brought the subject up and showed a lack of knowledge about MMA, you confirmed this in a later post.

It's impossible to criticise incorrectly! No, it wasn't the broccoli thing. You posted first so I'm allowed to reply.

I'm allowed to be eccentric, I'm English.

You've made some big assumptions about, not just me, but the people here. You came across as being superior in your beliefs and anyone who didn't agree was somewhat lower down the food chain than yourself. The subject is whether one should include moralistic teachings into martial arts, most of think that we have been brought up properly, have our own moral values and therefore don't appreciate having mottos, phrases etc introduced into our training as if we were ignorant savages targeted by missionaries.

You have your opinion we have ours, discourse doesn't have to be acrimonious (see, I can do the big word thing too!) but you came in waving your 'tenets' as if you were at war against the unbelievers. And you were surprised we didn't fall at your feet? My, even G-d and Constitution were on your side, amusing. The conceit slips in and out of your words like a snake around prey.

 

[granfire]

all over sudden I am craving popcorn...

 

[Tez3]

all over sudden I am craving popcorn...

I do my best to entertain as well as inform roflmao! :ultracool

We've had threads before on religion inpinging into martial arts and the general opinion seems to be that there's no place for it in training. We live our lives according to our beliefs whether they involve a religion or not and we don't leave our morals and ethics at the dojo door so for instructors to start preaching, moralising or generally trying to 'convert' us it is a tad insulting if not actually condescending.

Those of us who train children have all had at some time the parent that comes in wanting us to teach their child/ren 'discipline', good manners etc but that's not our role. These things have to come from our parents and guardians. Martial arts does teach many things, you have to learn self discipline to be any good, you have to learn patience, control and courtesy to be able to advance through the grades but frankly I don't believe you are taught this, you absorb it and learn it yourself, always the best way. If you have good well rounded instructors who behave correctly the students will follow their example, no amount of catchy phrases are going to replace a good example.

In the McDojos they will take your money and point to all the posters exhorting discpline, good manners etc but they are meaningless, it's the money that talks. A good instructor doesn't have to lecture you about being 'a good person', he's there to teach you martial arts and if he shows a good example in the way he treats people and in his own training, you will learn how far the virtues of self discipline, patience etc will take you.


I'm going to go back to the subject of MMA as it was brought up, not by me I'll add. It's mostly thought that fighters/competitiors can't possible have any of the virtues that are considered essential by TMA practicitioners but in my experience this is hugely wrong. Knowing that you can cause great physical harm with your skills forces you to control those skills, to be disciplined when training and with your training partners. some may see the fights as mere brawls but on closer inspection which I invite you to take, you will find they are a mental challenge as well as a physical one. The sheer amount of control in an MMA fight would surprise you. Yes there are bloody noses, black eyes but there is also a huge amount of respect going on and at the end of the fight great cameraderie. I have seen great acts of sportsmanship as well as courtesy taking place in MMA. These are not things you learn from words plastering the training walls. This you learn by example and personal interaction with your training partners. It's also not unique to MMA, far from it, though this type of interaction, respect and control may however may be unique to martial arts overall.

 

[chungdokwan123]

So much for letting me have the last word rofl!

That's up and coming.....I wanted to try one last time to amplify my intentions to you. I hold out the hope that it will not end up a superfluous effort.

The UFC comment was a snide comment about MMA yes

No.....it was not. Absolutely not. It was a snide comment about UFC.

then you chose to remind me that this thread was about TKD

That's exactly what it was about.......way, way back then.

somewhat sharply actually but you brought the subject up and showed a lack of knowledge about MMA, you confirmed this in a later post.

Ahhhh. Now I see the problem......I think.

I posted:

Furthermore, I'm being introspective about TKD.....and utilizing MMA by which to do so. I have all the respect in the world for those who practice MMA and their abilities, and I've said nothing different.

I must here and now apologize for a mis-type, and I do so humbly yet gladly. I meant to state that I was "utilizing UFC by which to do so". My intention was to maintain a separation between said and MMA.

The "pay attention" jab was just that.....a little snide perhaps. I don't consider that overly sharp, but for the mis-type, I do again apologize. I only wish that you had specifically pointed that out before now.

It's impossible to criticise incorrectly! No, it wasn't the broccoli thing. You posted first so I'm allowed to reply.

A universally accepted notion.

I'm allowed to be eccentric, I'm English.

I was actually talking about myself.

You've made some big assumptions about, not just me, but the people here.

Again.....that simply is not true. I haven't made any assumptions about you or anyone else. It is most emphatically not the case. You can repeat that over and over and there will still not be any bit of truth to that sentiment......or we could attempt to move on.

You came across as being superior in your beliefs and anyone who didn't agree was somewhat lower down the food chain than yourself.

Take a retrospective look back at my posts and you'll find more question marks than periods at the end of them. That is not the mark of grandiose boasting of superior beliefs. I still cannot believe that you didn't catch on to the fact that I was seeking challenges to ideas......not to attempt to force my own views, which are still incomplete......but to gain insight into what others are thinking.

The subject is whether one should include moralistic teachings into martial arts, most of think that we have been brought up properly, have our own moral values and therefore don't appreciate having mottos, phrases etc introduced into our training as if we were ignorant savages targeted by missionaries.

I hold the view that such teachings can and do have positive consequences. I don't understand why you would take such offense to said.....I do not see a code of sorts as questioning one's upbringing or values nor do I perceive the existence of a moral basis as rendering students "ignorant savages". Perhaps it can simply serve to reinforce that which we already hold important?

You have your opinion we have ours, discourse doesn't have to be acrimonious (see, I can do the big word thing too!)

.....and a good word it is.

but you came in waving your 'tenets' as if you were at war against the unbelievers.

.......and yet again, I was making inquiries.....not flag waving. Not all questions are rhetorical.

And you were surprised we didn't fall at your feet?

I am far too humble to even desire anyone to be at my feet.

My, even G-d and Constitution were on your side, amusing.

The reference to the Constitution was used as an example of how not to draw parallels in discussion. The comment was prefaced, as well as summarized, as such.

The conceit slips in and out of your words like a snake around prey.

If you look for something hard enough......you'll likely find it.

Was that also "pseudo philosophical bumpf"?

Good day.......submitted sincerely.

 

[Tez3]

This maybe my last post, it's been raining non stop for three days now and much of where I am is flooded so I may have to stop posting and go start building an ark! That's only partly a joke! Though I may be called into work.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/north_yorkshire/8385679.stm

To bring up the UFC and/or MMA then tell someone else it's off subject is a bit unfair. The UFC is a business not a martial art so it's irrelevant to a conversation such as this.

I see what you mean and understand now it was a mistype but couldn't have pointed it out not knowing it was such.

The problem with the internet as has been pointed out many, many times is that we have to take at face value what is written, we can't see the wry smile as words are uttered or hear the laughter in the voice. We can't see from the writer's face how he means his words to be taken so when sentences such as yours are read they are all we had to go on. The intent may have been far from pompous, you may be far from pompous but the words were and that's all we have on here. Face to face I would suggest the conversation would have taken a completely different turn.

I think when people suggest moral teachings in martial arts many of us are somewhat insulted. It smacks of big brother, it sets backs up. It much as if someone has come to your door telling you they 'have the way' and yours isn't good enough. You wouldn't expect to have such mottos up in other sports clubs or facilities so why martial arts?

 

[miguksaram]

all over sudden I am craving popcorn...

I'm craving steel wool for my eyes to stop me from continuing to read this.

 

[Tez3]

I'm craving steel wool for my eyes to stop me from continuing to read this.

You know you love it really!!

 

[miguksaram]

You know you love it really!!

It's like watching a midget drag queen spanking a half naked clown...you know you don't want to look, but darn if you can't help but keep staring.

 

[granfire]

It's like watching a midget drag queen spanking a half naked clown...you know you don't want to look, but darn if you can't help but keep staring.

Now THAT officially made my day! :lfao::lfao::lfao:

 

[Xue Sheng]

A deranged castigator, well there's an almost Shakespearan insult for you lol!

If someone will tell me how to put that under my avatar and username I shall certainly use it!

I will add however my castigating is purely verbal, none of that hanky panky thank you.

Chungdokwan, in your posts and replies to people, not just to me you have been dismissive, sarcastic and at times verging on insulting. You bring up MMA then claim not to be talking about it, being very sharp with me at one poiont. Don't bring something up if not willing to discuss it. You have been quite pompous about others posts too so it's interesting when you take offence at your posts being criticised.
I'll allow that you may not have realised your sharpness at some points, that you are new to here and maybe haven't taken our measure yet. Stick around and you'll find that fitting in even when you are as eccentric as I am is easy.

A foul and pestilent congregation of vapours.... Now THAT’S a Shakespearian insult

Now could someone pass the popcorn opcorn: and the steel wool... WHAT THE HECK is going on with that Midget

 

[Tez3]

Aaah and they say Americans don't have a sense of humour!


chungdokwan and I thank you for your kind attention. We do our humble best to amuse and entertain! :boing2:

 

[StudentCarl]

I'm more of a rookie in TKD than in life, so my ideas are simple:

Hate and anger are fuel, much like adrenaline.

They can be good because they give me energy and keep me from noticing injuries until later.

They can be bad because they cloud my judgment, thinking, and skills.

I think hate has it's own Um and Yang, and thus has an unavoidable place for all of us. I try to keep such emotions in balance, as I would not want to be ruled by hate or the opposite--apathy.

I hope that my training will help me improve my judgment, thinking and skills so I can stay balanced (which includes tenets I think) in situations that provoke my hate, anger, or other disruptive emotions.

 

[Tez3]

I'm more of a rookie in TKD than in life, so my ideas are simple:

Hate and anger are fuel, much like adrenaline.

They can be good because they give me energy and keep me from noticing injuries until later.

They can be bad because they cloud my judgment, thinking, and skills.

I think hate has it's own Um and Yang, and thus has an unavoidable place for all of us. I try to keep such emotions in balance, as I would not want to be ruled by hate or the opposite--apathy.

I hope that my training will help me improve my judgment, thinking and skills so I can stay balanced (which includes tenets I think) in situations that provoke my hate, anger, or other disruptive emotions.

I think it's interesting that you put apathy as the opposite of hate, I think that may well be true.
I had a friend who used to train kickboxing and karate with me who I introduced to MMA, he fought professional rules for a while and when he retired saying he had become a much calmer person due to his aggression being given an outlet, through the hard training more than the fighting.
I don't think you should expect too much from learning martial arts as far as your emotional life is concerned but I would say if you are taught properly you will learn the control needed to not flare up and start fights.

 

[miguksaram]

Aaah and they say Americans don't have a sense of humour!

Not only do we have a sense of humor but some of us actually get Monty Python, Benny Hill and Dave Allen at Large humor.