Wealth Inequality In America...and its perception?

[Steve]

Who are these people? Show me these rich that pay nothing because Ill show you MILLIONS of poor that pay the same amount. I think we both agree the tax code is broken so Im not sure we have an argument here.

I just dont think double taxes are fair and they only exist as a means to attack the rich.

I've posted the stats before, with links directly to the source. If you're really interested, I am 100% confident you can find the information.

Regarding double taxation, a sales tax is the ultimate in double taxation. I'm not sure why you're okay with that and not with double tax on other things. Doesn't make sense to me.

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[ballen0351]

I've posted the stats before, with links directly to the source. If you're really interested, I am 100% confident you can find the information.

Regarding double taxation, a sales tax is the ultimate in double taxation. I'm not sure why you're okay with that and not with double tax on other things. Doesn't make sense to me.

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How is a sales tax double tax? I dont follow

 

[Makalakumu]

I had no money before I was born and I still have most of it left so they are doing a bad job at it

Every dollar the US government goes into debt before you were born is a tax levied upon you. The government stole my money before I even had it so they could pay for Vietnam and the social programs of the 60s. Talk about No Taxation without Representation!

But really, what I'm talking about is the process of money creation, who gets to use those dollars first, and the ultimate effect of that new money on the total value of our money as a whole. This is a hidden regressive tax that redistributes wealth to the top of the pyramid. Our whole political system is a shell game based on hiding this fact from us. Both parties scream at each other, nothing major changes, and our wealth is redistributed by the force of government.

 

[ballen0351]

Every dollar the US government goes into debt before you were born is a tax levied upon you. The government stole my money before I even had it so they could pay for Vietnam and the social programs of the 60s. Talk about No Taxation without Representation!

But really, what I'm talking about is the process of money creation, who gets to use those dollars first, and the ultimate effect of that new money on the total value of our money as a whole. This is a hidden regressive tax that redistributes wealth to the top of the pyramid. Our whole political system is a shell game based on hiding this fact from us. Both parties scream at each other, nothing major changes, and our wealth is redistributed by the force of government.

Dude who you telling? I've been saying all along we can't keep borrowing 600 billion a year and survive. I say lower our credit rating so people stop loaning us money and force us to make cuts. Neither side is serious about cuts because they don't need to. They can just borrow the difference. Stop borrowing and start raising taxes and see how fast we toss all the bums out of Washington and demand fiscal responsibility

 

[pgsmith]

Taxation Hero: ExxonMobil Pays $3 In Taxes For Every $1 In Profit
Those Bastards!

Don't you get dizzy when they spin the facts like that? Wheeeeeeeeeeee ........

So in essence, you're saying that if Bill Gates made a billion dollars, but paid 500 million in taxes to East Latvia, then he shouldn't have to pay his US taxes right? Or is that not the spin you were going for?

 

[ballen0351]

Don't you get dizzy when they spin the facts like that? Wheeeeeeeeeeee ........

So in essence, you're saying that if Bill Gates made a billion dollars, but paid 500 million in taxes to East Latvia, then he shouldn't have to pay his US taxes right? Or is that not the spin you were going for?

How much of that billion did he make in the US? Why should the US get to tax money he didn't make in the US?

 

[ballen0351]

Steve where can I find the numbers of the 20% not paying taxes at all. I've been looking and can't find them? Not saying it didn't happen with the clowns we got running Washington anything is possible

 

[Steve]

Steve where can I find the numbers of the 20% not paying taxes at all. I've been looking and can't find them? Not saying it didn't happen with the clowns we got running Washington anything is possible

I haven't looked in the last few months. I'd recommend looking here for related threads and following the links there. If I have some time, I might try to find the specific tables for you.

Rest assured, there are an alarming number of people making an alarming amount of money and paying very little in the way of income tax.

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[ballen0351]

I haven't looked in the last few months. I'd recommend looking here for related threads and following the links there. If I have some time, I might try to find the specific tables for you.

Rest assured, there are an alarming number of people making an alarming amount of money and paying very little in the way of income tax.

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Rest assured there are 10s of millions that don't pay. At least the rich that don't pay don't also take

 

[CNida]

Who are these people? Show me these rich that pay nothing because Ill show you MILLIONS of poor that pay the same amount. I think we both agree the tax code is broken so Im not sure we have an argument here.

I just dont think double taxes are fair and they only exist as a means to attack the rich.

Is it fair to tax the rich double? No, absolutely not. Even if they can pay it. Is it fair that they can qualify for a tax exemption under bull-crap pretenses? No. Is it fair that they can handle their finances outside the US to avoid paying taxes on a technicality? No.

I dont like the argument that the poor don't pay taxes either. The difference between poor and rich being that the poor dont pay taxes because they cant afford it, and the rich can afford to pay taxes but seem to feel like they shouldn't have to for some reason or another.


____________________________

"A man who has attained mastery of an art reveals it in his every action." - Anonymous

 

[Steve]

Rest assured there are 10s of millions that don't pay. At least the rich that don't pay don't also take

Your making me nauseous. You honestly don't think that the richest benefit at the tax payer's expense? Come on, Ballen. You're killing me. They take all kinds of things. They're just different things. Call them incentives, tax breaks, loopholes, grants, exemptions or any number of other things. As I've said over and over in the past, if a flat tax were advantageous to the richest among us, we would have it already.

http://www.irs.gov/file_source/pub/irs-soi/11in35tr.xls

According to that table, there were 41,585 returns filed at a 0% rate for people who made over $100k AGI. Almost 1000 were over $1mil AGI.

Over 19 million returns with an adjusted gross income over $100k were filed at 10%. Of those, over 282,000 were over $1million dollars.

I don't know about you, but I paid a lot more than 10% in income tax, and I make one hell of a lot less than $1million dollars per year, even gross.

If you want to dig around, you can find all sorts of cool stuff here: http://www.irs.gov/uac/Tax-Stats-2

 

[Steve]

SO ban me

Whoa. Just saw this. Damn. I thought we were bros.

 

[ballen0351]

Is it fair to tax the rich double? No, absolutely not. Even if they can pay it. Is it fair that they can qualify for a tax exemption under bull-crap pretenses? No. Is it fair that they can handle their finances outside the US to avoid paying taxes on a technicality? No.

They don't make the rules they just follow them. Write your congressman or better yet stop reelecting them.

I dont like the argument that the poor don't pay taxes either. The difference between poor and rich being that the poor dont pay taxes because they cant afford it, and the rich can afford to pay taxes but seem to feel like they shouldn't have to for some reason or another.

So I can't afford my taxes either but I still pay. Who says what you can and can't afford. It shouldn't matter.

 

[ballen0351]

Your making me nauseous. You honestly don't think that the richest benefit at the tax payer's expense? Come on, Ballen. You're killing me. They take all kinds of things. They're just different things. Call them incentives, tax breaks, loopholes, grants, exemptions or any number of other things. As I've said over and over in the past, if a flat tax were advantageous to the richest among us, we would have it already.

http://www.irs.gov/file_source/pub/irs-soi/11in35tr.xls

According to that table, there were 41,585 returns filed at a 0% rate for people who made over $100k AGI. Almost 1000 were over $1mil AGI.

Over 19 million returns with an adjusted gross income over $100k were filed at 10%. Of those, over 282,000 were over $1million dollars.

I don't know about you, but I paid a lot more than 10% in income tax, and I make one hell of a lot less than $1million dollars per year, even gross.

If you want to dig around, you can find all sorts of cool stuff here: http://www.irs.gov/uac/Tax-Stats-2

So what your saying is they followed the rules and paid what they were allowed to pay? Go figure. I do the same thing. I try to find every loophole and deduction I can. Even more reason to scrap the income tax and get a sales tax

 

[ballen0351]

Whoa. Just saw this. Damn. I thought we were bros.

We are but I'm talking to a guy that claimed the Constitution didn't apply to him because he never signed or agreed to it. So sarcasim was much better then what I wanted to say

 

[Steve]

So what your saying is they followed the rules and paid what they were allowed to pay? Go figure. I do the same thing. I try to find every loophole and deduction I can. Even more reason to scrap the income tax and get a sales tax

Wait. So when a rich person pays zero tax, it's following the rules, but when a poor person does it, it's freeloading? Are you suggesting that the poor folks who pay zero income tax are breaking the rules?

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[ballen0351]

Are you suggesting that the poor folks who pay zero income tax are breaking the rules?

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No

 

[Big Don]

I don't know about you, but I paid a lot more than 10% in income tax, and I make one hell of a lot less than $1million dollars per year, even gross.

10% of a million, is quite a bit more than 10% of what you make then, isn't it, so, the evil rich are still paying more than you...

 

[Big Don]

Conservatives look at the rich, and ask themselves how they can achieve the same success, Liberals look at the rich and demand the same results without the same effort.

 

[Steve]

10% of a million, is quite a bit more than 10% of what you make then, isn't it, so, the evil rich are still paying more than you...

What's zero percent of a million, don?

And I thought paying the same percentage was "fair." As I said before, it's okay if we disagree on what fair is, but in my opinion, if I make $100,000 and you make $1,000,000 paying the same percent of our income as tax is fair. If you pay 10% and I pay 15%, I believe you aren't pulling your weight. In other words, you'd be the freeloader.

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