Wealth Inequality In America...and its perception?

[Makalakumu]

I think everyone needs to be defended the rich the middle class and the poor. You apparently believe we can keep taking more and more from the rich and they will just say "ok"

Nope, I think people all need to stop taking other people's money and start using things that really are money...rather than the toilet paper the government produces.

 

[ballen0351]

Nope, I think people all need to stop taking other people's money and start using things that really are money...rather than the toilet paper the government produces.

Yes because sending a gold nugget to my mortgage co. is way easier then my banks auto bill pay feature.

 

[Makalakumu]

Yes because sending a gold nugget to my mortgage co. is way easier then my banks auto bill pay feature.

A gold backed, privately managed, competing currency would suffice if you are worried about sending physical gold. Bit coin could work as well.

 

[granfire]

The evil oil companies put in all the effort and government, local, state, federal, take 4 TIMES what those evil oil pumping bastards do...
Yep, the Oil companies are soaking us...

Keep believing that right wing propaganda.

 

[Steve]

I think everyone needs to be defended the rich the middle class and the poor. You apparently believe we can keep taking more and more from the rich and they will just say "ok"

I think everyone should be held accountable to contribute their fair share. The question is, what's fair? You and I might disagree a bit, although I'm confident we are both many steps to the right of socialism.

 

[pgsmith]

The evil oil companies put in all the effort and government, local, state, federal, take 4 TIMES what those evil oil pumping bastards do...
Yep, the Oil companies are soaking us...

Mmmmmmmmmm ..... good koolaid!

 

[ballen0351]

I think everyone should be held accountable to contribute their fair share. The question is, what's fair? You and I might disagree a bit, although I'm confident we are both many steps to the right of socialism.

What I feel is fair is everyone pays the same amount. Either as a sales tax and scrap income tax or a flat % for everyone. I think "well you make this much so you pay the % oh and you over there you make that much so you pay that %". This argument that well your rich so you can afford it is wrong. Who cares what someone can afford that should have no bearing on anything.

 

[Big Don]

Mmmmmmmmmm ..... good koolaid!

[h=1]Taxation Hero: ExxonMobil Pays $3 In Taxes For Every $1 In Profit[/h]

Those Bastards!

 

[Makalakumu]

Those Bastards!

With numbers like those, I think it becomes why multinational corporations would want to have more control over national governments. On average, for every corporate dollar spent, corporations get 200 dollars back. It comes in the form of tax breaks, incentives, government contracts, grants, bailouts, you name it.

http://www.opensecrets.org/news/2009/06/lobbying-is-a-lucrative-invest.html

Your investments might have suffered as a result of the financial crisis, but Big Business has found one successful investment that may be recession-proof: lobbying. Using CRP data on lobbying expenditures by S&P 500 firms, three finance professors recently published a report stating that for every dollar a company spends on lobbying, its value increases by $200. The study, entitled "Determinants and Effects of Corporate Lobbying," was released on June 15.

So, liberals, do you really think you have the power to wrest the government from the hands of the multinationals with all of their money, lobbyists, and clout in DC?

Ninja please...

 

[Steve]

What I feel is fair is everyone pays the same amount. Either as a sales tax and scrap income tax or a flat % for everyone. I think "well you make this much so you pay the % oh and you over there you make that much so you pay that %". This argument that well your rich so you can afford it is wrong. Who cares what someone can afford that should have no bearing on anything.

Ballen, if you're for a flat percentage, then we actually do agree. I'm all for a flat rate income tax on ALL income, including both wages and other income including dividends, royalties, honoraria, stipends, capital gains, estates and anything else. That's the epitome of fair, in my opinion.

But, with respect, you agree in theory that everyone should pay a flat percentage. However, in past threads, you have argued vehemently that people at the top have paid a fixed dollar amount that you consider more than their share. In other words, when we've talked about actual percentages paid, you've argued that the wealthiest among us have paid more than their fair share, even if they paid less as a percentage of their gross income.

As I said, though, we both agree that everyone should pay their fair share. We just disagree a little bit on what's fair. I think a flat percentage of all income is more than fair.

 

[ballen0351]

Ballen, if you're for a flat percentage, then we actually do agree. I'm all for a flat rate income tax on ALL income, including both wages and other income including dividends, royalties, honoraria, stipends, capital gains, estates and anything else. That's the epitome of fair, in my opinion.

But, with respect, you agree in theory that everyone should pay a flat percentage. However, in past threads, you have argued vehemently that people at the top have paid a fixed dollar amount that you consider more than their share. In other words, when we've talked about actual percentages paid, you've argued that the wealthiest among us have paid more than their fair share, even if they paid less as a percentage of their gross income.

As I said, though, we both agree that everyone should pay their fair share. We just disagree a little bit on what's fair. I think a flat percentage of all income is more than fair.

No the rich pay MUCH high % then the poor. The poor pay Nothing.

Capital Gains is a double tax. You were already taxed on that income when you originally earn it.
Estate taxes as well. When that money was earned it was taxed just because I die and give it to my kids why should it be taxed again?

 

[ballen0351]

Thats why if I had my choice Im more for a national sales tax. Its a win win for everyone. You get taxes collected for illegal and under the table income, Tourist income, and if you want to save your money there is no penality, the rich would pay more since they buy more expensive things then the poor.

 

[Makalakumu]

What if the system has progressed to a certain point and your preferences really don't matter? What if the special interests are so entrenched that there really is no possibility of shaking loose their grip on the system? What if you discover that it's been like that for a long time and that they have been using the system to "make you pay your fair share" (I mean rob) instead of vice versa?

The public is so childlike. They think they can walk up to a master thief and steal from him, but end up getting stolen from in return in such a way that they don't even know they've lost something.

 

[ballen0351]

What if the system has progressed to a certain point and your preferences really don't matter?

Dude chill out were talking on a internet forum

What if the special interests are so entrenched that there really is no possibility of shaking loose their grip on the system? What if you discover that it's been like that for a long time and that they have been using the system to "make you pay your fair share" (I mean rob) instead of vice versa?

Yawn

The public is so childlike. They think they can walk up to a master thief and steal from him, but end up getting stolen from in return in such a way that they don't even know they've lost something.

so fix it for us poor childlike public, oh wise one. ALL HAIL to the great and wise Mak the only one that can see whats really going on around here

 

[Makalakumu]

Dude chill out were talking on a internet forum

Yawn

so fix it for us poor childlike public, oh wise one. ALL HAIL to the great and wise Mak the only one that can see whats really going on around here

Everyone knows that both major parties are bought and paid for. You can change the figureheads, but the underlying policies really don't change, no matter how damaging.

And now, because of what I posted in this thread, you can either accept or ignore the fact that the uber-elite have used government to take your money since before you were born. It's up to you.

 

[Steve]

No the rich pay MUCH high % then the poor. The poor pay Nothing.

Capital Gains is a double tax. You were already taxed on that income when you originally earn it.
Estate taxes as well. When that money was earned it was taxed just because I die and give it to my kids why should it be taxed again?

There are people who earn in the top 20% who pay zero income tax. Did you know that? It's available on the IRS.gov website, if you're interested. Surely, you're as upset about those freeloaders as you are about the people at the bottom! I know I am. Or do you think that the rich are being victimized by the middle class?

So, I'll say this again. I agree that a flat percentage would be VERY fair, provided it is a tax on ALL income. I will also say again that we agree that everyone should pay their fair share, but we disagree at least somewhat on what is fair. But regardless, neither of us is close to socialism.

 

[Steve]

Dude chill out were talking on a internet forum

Yawn

so fix it for us poor childlike public, oh wise one. ALL HAIL to the great and wise Mak the only one that can see whats really going on around here

Ballen, I don't think your sarcasm is helpful.

 

[ballen0351]

Ballen, I don't think your sarcasm is helpful.

SO ban me

 

[ballen0351]

Everyone knows that both major parties are bought and paid for. You can change the figureheads, but the underlying policies really don't change, no matter how damaging.

And now, because of what I posted in this thread, you can either accept or ignore the fact that the uber-elite have used government to take your money since before you were born. It's up to you.

I had no money before I was born and I still have most of it left so they are doing a bad job at it

 

[ballen0351]

There are people who earn in the top 20% who pay zero income tax. Did you know that? It's available on the IRS.gov website, if you're interested. Surely, you're as upset about those freeloaders as you are about the people at the bottom! I know I am. Or do you think that the rich are being victimized by the middle class?

Who are these people? Show me these rich that pay nothing because Ill show you MILLIONS of poor that pay the same amount. I think we both agree the tax code is broken so Im not sure we have an argument here.

So, I'll say this again. I agree that a flat percentage would be VERY fair, provided it is a tax on ALL income. I will also say again that we agree that everyone should pay their fair share, but we disagree at least somewhat on what is fair. But regardless, neither of us is close to socialism.

I just dont think double taxes are fair and they only exist as a means to attack the rich.