Lucky, I take exception to this statement. What "feel" am I giving? I've gone out of my way to be explicit. I'm not talking about fraud, nor am I suggesting that what is being done is illegal. If anything, I'm saying that the tax code is broken top to bottom.
@Lucky/Ballen, there is a huge amount of statistical information available on the irs.gov website. I don't have the time to retrace my steps, but I urge you to take a look on your own.
Lucky, I take exception to this statement. What "feel" am I giving? I've gone out of my way to be explicit. I'm not talking about fraud, nor am I suggesting that what is being done is illegal. If anything, I'm saying that the tax code is broken top to bottom.
I mentioned earlier that I'd cut/paste a paragraph because I knew then that people would miss it: And I will say this one time just to be very, very clear, because this is where people got butthurt in the last thread. I don't think that "the rich" are screwing anyone. I don't think that "the rich" are inherently dishonest. I DO think that they're doing just fine and aren't being victimized. I ALSO think that rich people, like everyone else, should pay THEIR SHARE.
I'll just add, I'm not pissed about this. We're having a discussion. I'm not giving it much thought one way or the other outside of posting in this thread. Let's keep things in perspective.
@Sukerkin, thank you for looking those up.
Instead of retyping it all, I'll just cut/paste from earlier in this same thread.
Oh jesus christ. No. I'm saying that, if they own most of everything, and make most of the income, it follows that they would pay most of the real tax dollars. Once again, just pointing out that they are not to be pitied. We do have a progressive tax system in the USA. It's specious, however, to simply say, "Hey, they pay over 50% of the taxes. Poor them!" If they make over 50% of the income in real dollars, they SHOULD be paying over 50% of the taxes. That doesn't mean that, relative to your income and mine, they are paying out of proportion to their wealth.
we are just going back and forth now. I've said my piece.
N. You guys are right. I see that now . We are being so unfair to thetop ten percent. Poor, poor... poor rich people.
Not commenting on rich vs poor. More of an elementary school English lesson. Fair doesn't mean equal. Fair means equitable. Something that is equitable is, by definition, fair. On the other hand, many things that are equal are not fair.
Daddy Warbucks earns $2 million and pays $20,000 in taxes. Would you consider that fair?
Not commenting on rich vs poor. More of an elementary school English lesson. Fair doesn't mean equal. Fair means equitable. Something that is equitable is, by definition, fair. On the other hand, many things that are equal are not fair.
Take a relative scale, for example. You earn $20,000 last year and pay $200 in taxes. I earn $200,000 and pay $2000 in taxes. Woohoo for me!
While not equal, I would consider this very fair. The above is, essentially, a 1% flat tax. Daddy Warbucks paid as much in taxes as you earned all year. But it was equitable because, as a percentage of his income, he paid the same amount.
This is the point I'm making.
Well, I don't think 1% will get the job done, but if we account for all income, I think that the tax rate would go down for just about everyone.
Not in these words, but you have gone out of your way to dismiss any negative statement about the top 10%, even if that statement was only to suggest that they pay their fair share along with everyone else.
I'm simply pointing out that if a flat tax were advantageous to the rich, we'd have it already. Period. The power and influence that the wealthy wield is formidable.
All over the world flat tax doesn't work. The simple thing in this example is that person one on $20,000 a year is living below the poverty line. Yet they still have to pay the $200 tax that they can't afford. You earn your $200,000 and pay $2,000 Woohoo! You have heaps to spend. Daddy Warbucks earns the $2M and invests $1m in an enterprise that generates $20,000 of tax savings and pays no tax. The people in the middle pay the most tax in most places.Not commenting on rich vs poor. More of an elementary school English lesson. Fair doesn't mean equal. Fair means equitable. Something that is equitable is, by definition, fair. On the other hand, many things that are equal are not fair.
Take a relative scale, for example. You earn $20,000 last year and pay $200 in taxes. I earn $200,000 and pay $2000 in taxes. Woohoo for me!
While not equal, I would consider this very fair. The above is, essentially, a 1% flat tax. Daddy Warbucks paid as much in taxes as you earned all year. But it was equitable because, as a percentage of his income, he paid the same amount.
This is the point I'm making.
