Watching street fight/attack videos ?

[JowGaWolf]

I can tell you didn't read any of the articles I posted about people successfully defending against an attacker using things like kicks to the groin, biting, and actually running the attacker over with a car and the law saw those actions as being legal in the context of self-defense.

Heck, JowGaWolf just stated that my theoretical hyper violent umpire would be legally in the clear in many jurisdictions.

Man A yells insults at Man B. Man A punches Man B in the face in which Man B does not shoot. Man A leaves the area but shortly returns charging violently at Man B. Man B shoots Man A. Man A flees and later dies 6 miles down the road. It was caught on tape and was done around witnesses. No charges were brought against the shooter. The State Attorney's Office said it was self-defense. You can read for yourself. The investigation is also included. Legally in the clear.
So how would you behave if a man you don't know pushes or punches yo, pauses and then charges at you, causing you to fear for your life or your safety?

Now, you and I wouldn't behave like that. And if we did, we certainly wouldn't tell the judge "it's okay, no rules in a real fight."

You don't have to tell a judge that there's no rules in a fight. He understands the that anything can happen during a violent confrontation. The only thing he needs to know if the person being attacked was acting out of self-defense or was he the one who started the assault. And like Buka stated, a lawyer is going to take the self-defense approach.

 

[drop bear]

You don't have to tell a judge that there's no rules in a fight. He understands the that anything can happen during a violent confrontation. The only thing he needs to know if the person being attacked was acting out of self-defense or was he the one who started the assault. And like Buka stated, a lawyer is going to take the self-defense approach.

This site concealed carry killers has a PDF file(which is a bit awkward I know) that list every imbecile who thought they knew what self defence was and was wrong.

Most judges I have delt with kind of think there are rules in a fight. Goes with the whole rules of society thing they do.

How to Use This Site

 

[lklawson]

This site concealed carry killers has a PDF file(which is a bit awkward I know) that list every imbecile who thought they knew what self defence was and was wrong.

And is so unbelievably biased and skewed as to be worthless.

 

[Koshiki]

My attorney is one of my old school Black Belts. He is a Criminal Defense Attorney and also a civil litigator. (hey, you can't save them all) He is also a fine Martial Artist who grew up hard. He wouldn't let you state to the judge "It was a fight. There are no rules in a real fight."

I was actually just about to relate a similar instance. There is a guy that has ties with my school, similar situation, Black Belt, Criminal Defense Attorney (though I believe he used to be prosecution).

This summer at a Martial Arts School Meet-up type thing, he gave an interesting class on this side of self-defense, the you-won-the-fight-now-stay-out-of-jail side of things.

Going through some of his case work, he had an instance of a guy who smashed another guy's jaw to pieces, to the point where the hospital staff refused to believe he hadn't used a weapon (it was actually one punch, apparently) and then bit the guy's ear completely off, spit it out, and fled the scene. Seemed pretty cut and dry, I mean, you break someone's face, bite off their ear, escape unscathed, and run from the cops, you're the bad guy, right?

Except that the side of the story that got left out is that it was a 4 v 1 situation, the outnumbered guy got attacked by a bigger guy, but managed to get one shot in before being tackled to the ground in a bear hug, where he did the only thing he could do in his terror, bit. Then, still being outnumbered and scared, he ran. Realizing it looked bad and the four guys were spreading lies, he kept running.

He managed to get off, but only because the lawyer is a good one, and the other side bungled their case by continually and obviously lying. He's got a lot of bills now. Moral of the story being, always be the one to call the cops.

Secondary moral being, there are rules against fighting, and their are rules in fights, and if you break them, you better have a good, verifiable and justifiable reason.

 

[Koshiki]

...16-move combinations that start with a chop to the trachea and end with a stomp to the head of a downed opponent. There may be an eye gouge or a neck break somewhere in the middle...

When I first moved to this area two years back, I checked out the local martial arts scene, and ended up training at one school for several months. They were a big fan of these lengthy combos. The only saving grace was that the combos were completely unrealistic and doomed to fail, and that the training was such that when in the role of the "attacker", if I didn't fall when I was supposed to, or where I was supposed to, or punch how I was supposed to, I was casually and straight-facedly informed that I was "doing it wrong."

Had the training quality and realism components been higher, I would have been seriously worried about and by those guys...

I mean, I grabbed your shirt and your response is to break my nose, my fingers, my arm, kick my knee against the joint, throw me on the concrete, stomp my groin and face and then finish with an eye gouge? Remind me not to tick you off...

 

[JowGaWolf]

This site concealed carry killers has a PDF file(which is a bit awkward I know) that list every imbecile who thought they knew what self defence was and was wrong.

Most judges I have delt with kind of think there are rules in a fight. Goes with the whole rules of society thing they do.

How to Use This Site

This statement tells me all I need to know about the site "Concealed Carry Killers provides detailed information on hundreds of examples of fatal, non-self defense killings by private citizens with permits to carry concealed handguns."

It also tells me that you aren't reading the definition I've been posting of what the U.S. legal system considers as self-dense and what they look at in order to determine when the act of self-defense begins and when it ends. I'm pretty sure that all of the cases on that site fail the legal definition of what is considered as self defense. I'm also sure there are cases where the person doing the killing initiated the attack. I'm pretty sure that the judges that you dealt with and the lawyers that they deal with listen to cases and present arguments of a person's action as being self-defense vs assault. Based on the events that lead up to the fighting, stabbing, or shooting. In terms of "street fighting," "Street fighting" is probably illegal in every jurisdiction in the U.S. and the actions found within a street fight are looked as assault, battery, self-defense , and other terms, but not "street fighting."

Rules to a fight are going to be classified as sanctioned and non-sanction which deals with an entirely different set of laws and regulations.

 

[JowGaWolf]

This summer at a Martial Arts School Meet-up type thing, he gave an interesting class on this side of self-defense, the you-won-the-fight-now-stay-out-of-jail side of things.

He managed to get off, but only because the lawyer is a good one, and the other side bungled their case by continually and obviously lying. He's got a lot of bills now. Moral of the story being, always be the one to call the cops.

When I had to deal with the drug dealers I called the police and made it known about the danger I was in. I also informed my employer the danger I was in as well as include my situation in a written report about me being threatened. I wanted as much evidence of me reaching out to the police and my employer as much as possible, just in case things took a turn for the worse and I had to defend myself. If I have some guy yelling at me and he keeps following me, then I'm calling the police to let them know what is going on at that moment. I want as much evidence as possible

As for bills. I'm sure the he rather have the legal bills than the hospital bills + legal bills and possible permanent damage as a result from getting a beat down in a 4 vs 1 scenario.

 

[Koshiki]

...I called the police and made it known about the danger I was in....I wanted as much evidence of me reaching out to the police and my employer as much as possible,...I want as much evidence as possible.

Exactly. That's pretty much what the lawyer I was referencing was advocating. If you're in the right, make sure you can demonstrate it.

I'm sure the he rather have the legal bills than the hospital bills + legal bills and possible permanent damage as a result from getting a beat down in a 4 vs 1 scenario.

Well, yaaaw. I don't think anyone advocates getting injured by virtue of your own pacifism to ensure that you avoid any possible legal action...

 

[Kenpoguy123]

To be honest I don't think that would even help. I think sparring is very overrated. It gets you fit but it's still not a good practice for the street because you are going in lighter and you're limited in what you can throw for example you can't kick their knees, gouge out their eyes kick in the groin. Those are probably main things in a street fight. Any untrained guy can put on gloves and throw down with someone that doesn't make them a good fighter. I think technical training is much better as you learn how to use all the proper weapons and develop muscle memory

 

[Ironbear24]

A lot of these fights happen between two people who know little to nothing about how to fight. That's why they end so quickly. They understand nothing about blocking or avoiding, so because of this who ever lands the first sloppy very fast haymaker will typically win.

People are also not accostumed to getting hit, I know it sounds funny but it's true. When people get hit especially in the face, they either freak out and cover up. Or they get furious and become more aggressive, that or they try to run.

This brings me to ask another question, but I'll save that for another thread because it is a bit off topic here.

 

[marques]

I teach self-defense classes from time to time. My last one was in 2002 before MMA is as big as it is now. I told the teen students my game plan for that time. Most people only punch so I'm going to take advantage of someone who wants to knock me out with a punch by kicking their legs. We would do scenarios where they will fight like they do in the streets. I kept kicking them in the legs.

That is an interesting point. Someone here could apply this strategy in self-defence?
I saw it once (Low Kick, in Poland).
But, in self-defence, I only can use (feel confidence to) use them as distractions, feints. In a sport combat or sparring it's ok. I do it all the time.

 

[Dirty Dog]

That is an interesting point. Someone here could apply this strategy in self-defence?
I saw it once (Low Kick, in Poland).
But, in self-defence, I only can use (feel confidence to) use them as distractions, feints. In a sport combat or sparring it's ok. I do it all the time.

If you can only apply a low kick as a distraction, then I suspect you're not doing them properly. A low kick to the knee is quite painful, and can be crippling depending on exactly how it's done. A low kick to the outer thigh can (again, if done properly) cause leg cramps, which make it difficult to walk, let alone fight. Ditto inner thigh. A low kick to the groin, (again, if done properly) can make just standing and breathing difficult. A low kick to the calf has the potential to break the leg.
There are lots of ways low kicks can be used other than as a distraction.

 

[marques]

@Dirty Dog ,When I say 'as distraction' I mean using them mainly to get into my distance. I may kick or stop in mid-way. Besides that I prefer to have my feets on the ground. My punches can be much faster and easier from my distance. I may use knees. (If it is 'to fight for life'.)

And Low Kick is my favorite, in friendly 'encounters'... 'Low Kick', I mean the Muay Thai Low Kick. Kick to the groin I would call it a lower Front Kick... Anyway I feel the main problem is the miss of confidence itself, after a long training break, because (low) kicks are still largely possible from my distance. Does someone here use kicks in self-defence?

 

[Dirty Dog]

Does someone here use kicks in self-defence?

Um, yeah... lots of us. I'd even go so far as to say most of us.
Anyone who doesn't is certainly severely limiting their options.
And I would certainly prefer to be attacked by someone who doesn't use all the weapons at their disposal.

 

[Ironbear24]

Um, yeah... lots of us. I'd even go so far as to say most of us.
Anyone who doesn't is certainly severely limiting their options.
And I would certainly prefer to be attacked by someone who doesn't use all the weapons at their disposal.

I do. Especially roundhouses.

 

[drop bear]

If you can only apply a low kick as a distraction, then I suspect you're not doing them properly. A low kick to the knee is quite painful, and can be crippling depending on exactly how it's done. A low kick to the outer thigh can (again, if done properly) cause leg cramps, which make it difficult to walk, let alone fight. Ditto inner thigh. A low kick to the groin, (again, if done properly) can make just standing and breathing difficult. A low kick to the calf has the potential to break the leg.
There are lots of ways low kicks can be used other than as a distraction.

Disagree. If i wanted to finish a guy. I really would not rely on a low kick to do the job.

If it does then great. But i would be throwing it as a set up to get to the head.

 

[Dirty Dog]

Disagree. If i wanted to finish a guy. I really would not rely on a low kick to do the job.

If it does then great. But i would be throwing it as a set up to get to the head.

Who said anything about finishing?
There is a HUGE difference between a setup and a distraction.

 

[drop bear]

Who said anything about finishing?
There is a HUGE difference between a setup and a distraction.

Depends on your fighting mentality. For us our distractions are mostly viable techniquestechniques in their own right. The distraction is that they are forced to react.

 

[RTKDCMB]

Disagree. If i wanted to finish a guy. I really would not rely on a low kick to do the job.

A low side kick to the side of the knee would break the leg and finish them for sure (if successful in breaking the leg).

 

[oftheherd1]

If you can only apply a low kick as a distraction, then I suspect you're not doing them properly. A low kick to the knee is quite painful, and can be crippling depending on exactly how it's done. A low kick to the outer thigh can (again, if done properly) cause leg cramps, which make it difficult to walk, let alone fight. Ditto inner thigh. A low kick to the groin, (again, if done properly) can make just standing and breathing difficult. A low kick to the calf has the potential to break the leg.
There are lots of ways low kicks can be used other than as a distraction.

Agreed. As I learned them, low kicks are faster, just as or more strong, and therefor more difficult to defend; we don't stand on our arms or head. High kicks can do a lot of damage, if they connect. But as they tend to take more time to connect, they are more easily defended against by either moving toward the opponent, or out of range.