Voluntary Sex With Minors

[Swordlady]

http://www.sexualityandu.ca/eng/teachers/YSH/intercourse.cfm

First stats I found, place average age for first time at 16.5.

I think there is an assumption there that teenagers can't be responsible about ex and use birth control, but I think that is a flawed assumption if it is there.

I disagree. Think about the average teen's mentality. Heck, think about any teenager you happen to know right now. How many of them would you say are COMPLETELY responsible for their actions ALL the time?

Want some more stats? Take a gander at this website. Says that teens in the US have the highest pregnancy rate in the world. I can believe it: http://www.coolnurse.com/teen_pregnancy_rates.htm

But I think this is an entirely different subject then the initial post (teens with teens / age of consent) then adults seeking out teenagers online

That is true. But then again, a number of posters on this thread (including me) have stated time and again why teenagers aren't responsible or mature enough for sexual activity.

 

[Kane]

http://www.sexualityandu.ca/eng/teachers/YSH/intercourse.cfm

First stats I found, place average age for first time at 16.5.

I think there is an assumption there that teenagers can't be responsible about ex and use birth control, but I think that is a flawed assumption if it is there.

But I think this is an entirely different subject then the initial post (teens with teens / age of consent) then adults seeking out teenagers online

Good point. And your post is very much on the same subject as the initial post. If the state has laws regarding on whether teens can consent, they really think all teenagers are irresponsible. Furthermore the state also thinks parents are too irresponsible to watch their kids so they make such laws. Perhaps parents are irresponsible, but it may have to do with the whole "leave it up to the government" attitude.

 

[Kane]

I disagree. Think about the average teen's mentality. Heck, think about any teenager you happen to know right now. How many of them would you say are COMPLETELY responsible for their actions ALL the time?

Want some more stats? Take a gander at this website. Says that teens in the US have the highest pregnancy rate in the world. I can believe it: http://www.coolnurse.com/teen_pregnancy_rates.htm



That is true. But then again, a number of posters on this thread (including me) have stated time and again why teenagers aren't responsible or mature enough for sexual activity.

I think you over-generalize teens too much. You should meet my brother. You will be suprised how much more mature he is than many of my friends (who are in an Ivy league school!).

In any case, showing that teens in America have the highest pregnancy rates only proves the government legislation to prevent it is not working to control teen pregnancies in the first place.

 

[Rich Parsons]

I disagree. Think about the average teen's mentality. Heck, think about any teenager you happen to know right now. How many of them would you say are COMPLETELY responsible for their actions ALL the time?

Want some more stats? Take a gander at this website. Says that teens in the US have the highest pregnancy rate in the world. I can believe it: http://www.coolnurse.com/teen_pregnancy_rates.htm



That is true. But then again, a number of posters on this thread (including me) have stated time and again why teenagers aren't responsible or mature enough for sexual activity.

**** Note: I am Not condoning sex with minors ****

Back in the late 80's some Sex education material that went around the univeristy stated countries like France that had education and it was not such a taboo subject, the children had a much higher virginity rate until 18 and or until marriage. They also had a much lower teen pregnancy and STD rate as compared to many other countries such as the USA.

Education and lack of Taboo were what was credited as the reasons for this difference.

*****************************************

 

[Andrew Green]

I disagree. Think about the average teen's mentality. Heck, think about any teenager you happen to know right now. How many of them would you say are COMPLETELY responsible for their actions ALL the time?

I don't know any adults that are, so that's a odd thing to ask.

However I have met some rather irresponsible, yet married with children, adults.

Want some more stats? Take a gander at this website. Says that teens in the US have the highest pregnancy rate in the world. I can believe it: http://www.coolnurse.com/teen_pregnancy_rates.htm

So the question there would be why?

You don't have sex younger there then in other places, yet higher rate of pregnancy.

The difference seems to be attitude, Some parts of the US are so much against it that they refuse to teach teens anything about it. Places where birth control and safe sex are being taught, and the stigma of teenage sex isn't as bad don't seem to have the pregnancy problem as bad.

Teenagers ARE going to have sex, it's nature, those urges are there.

That is true. But then again, a number of posters on this thread (including me) have stated time and again why teenagers aren't responsible or mature enough for sexual activity.

Not sure about that, I get the impression that many believe teenagers aren't mature to have one night stands based off of interenet meetings with much older adults, but this is something very different.

It's also why many places have a close in age exception to the age of consent, for example:

In Canada it's 14 as the age of consent, but it's moving (moved? ) to 16, unless within 5 years of each other, then it's 14.

 

[Swordlady]

I think you over-generalize teens too much.

In any case, showing that teens in America have the highest pregnancy rates only proves the government legislation to prevent it is not working to control teen pregnancies in the first place.

And I think that you are giving teens a *little* too much credit.

You are correct in saying that it should be the *parent's* responsibility to regulate their children's behavior. But there also needs to be education from the outside - teaching both parents and their children what constitutes responsible sexual behavior. Not all parents are knowledgeable or responsible enough to pass on *proper* sexual behavior onto their children (again...consider who I work with...)

 

[Andy Moynihan]

Like it's been pointed out by Rich, I think it's the "forbidden fruit" element that exists in the US that doesn't elsewhere.

What's the one thing you do to guarantee a kid will want something? Forbid it, or create a taboo around it to the point you aren't even supposed to educate or even TALK about it.

Same deal with Prohibition in the 20's and we all know how well THAT turned out.

 

[Kane]

And I think that you are giving teens a *little* too much credit.

You are correct in saying that it should be the *parent's* responsibility to regulate their children's behavior. But there also needs to be education from the outside - teaching both parents and their children what constitutes responsible sexual behavior. Not all parents are knowledgeable or responsible enough to pass on *proper* sexual behavior onto their children (again...consider who I work with...)

Still, the parent's have the school choice. I think in most schools sex education is taught. It is really futile to try to prevent children from having sex. In a free society education (whether from parents or the schools) is the only way.

Like it's been pointed out by Rich, I think it's the "forbidden fruit" element that exists in the US that doesn't elsewhere.

What's the one thing you do to guarantee a kid will want something? Forbid it, or create a taboo around it.

Same deal with Prohibition in the 20's and we all know how well THAT turned out.

Agreed. Teens especially like to take risks. Sex with anyone being illegal to them will only drive them to do it. The same logic applies to everything else including drug prohibition. There is not much difference between sex and drug prohibition.

 

[Swordlady]

**** Note: I am Not condoning sex with minors ****

Back in the late 80's some Sex education material that went around the univeristy stated countries like France that had education and it was not such a taboo subject, the children had a much higher virginity rate until 18 and or until marriage. They also had a much lower teen pregnancy and STD rate as compared to many other countries such as the USA.

Education and lack of Taboo were what was credited as the reasons for this difference.

*****************************************

Interesting. But I don't know if the problem in the US is the lack of education. Most every school I'm aware of has Sex Ed. There are countless books on the subject, not to mention how easy it is to find that info on the Internet. And how could sex be a taboo subject when it is plastered all over television, movies, music, videogames, etc? I think one of the major problems is that sex has been cheapened by popular culture. It's no longer about a loving intimate act between two consenting *married* adults. It's treated as another pastime, like knitting. And the sad reality is that many adults don't seem to have much of a clue about responsible sexual behavior (e.g., one-night stands, affairs, coerced sex, etc). How much more do the teens?

 

[Andy Moynihan]

Interesting. But I don't know if the problem in the US is the lack of education. Most every school I'm aware of has Sex Ed. There are countless books on the subject, not to mention how easy it is to find that info on the Internet. And how could sex be a taboo subject when it is plastered all over television, movies, music, videogames, etc? I think one of the major problems is that sex has been cheapened by popular culture.

No argument there.

 

[Xue Sheng]

Sorry I’m late to this.

Minor = not yet reached the age of consent.

Therefore there is no such thing as a consenting minor.

Also if someone were not already predisposed to having sex with a minor then any amount of enticement would not work.

Also if a minor could consent then what about a child that is way to young to even understand the question?

 

[Andrew Green]

And how could sex be a taboo subject when it is plastered all over television, movies, music, videogames, etc?

Sure it is, look at the Janet Jackson thing. "KIDS COULD HAVE SEEN A BOOBIE!!!" seemed to be the theme for a while after that.

I'm also quite sure that there is enough "Abstenance Only", "Before marriage is evil" floating around in some places to outway whatever education is there.

Sex may be common in culture amongst adults, but when kids are involved there seems to be a very funny line in the sand that is not to be crossed.

 

[Andy Moynihan]

Sure it is, look at the Janet Jackson thing. "KIDS COULD HAVE SEEN A BOOBIE!!!" seemed to be the theme for a while after that.

I'm also quite sure that there is enough "Abstenance Only", "Before marriage is evil" floating around in some places to outway whatever education is there.

Sex may be common in culture amongst adults, but when kids are involved there seems to be a very funny line in the sand that is not to be crossed.

Which gets even more fun when it isn't even clearly defined what and where that line IS.......

 

[Rich Parsons]

Interesting. But I don't know if the problem in the US is the lack of education. Most every school I'm aware of has Sex Ed. There are countless books on the subject, not to mention how easy it is to find that info on the Internet. And how could sex be a taboo subject when it is plastered all over television, movies, music, videogames, etc? I think one of the major problems is that sex has been cheapened by popular culture. It's no longer about a loving intimate act between two consenting *married* adults. It's treated as another pastime, like knitting. And the sad reality is that many adults don't seem to have much of a clue about responsible sexual behavior (e.g., one-night stands, affairs, coerced sex, etc). How much more do the teens?

Sex is put out there as something that sells, yet is not talked about at home. I had sex ed in Junior HS and also talked to those after me for years including those in High School or early college while I was in my 6th year of college and they still had no access to stats on STD's. They were laughed it by their friends if the asked a difficult question in school. Their parents also wanted them to ignore what they had in school. I knew some kids who got to go to study hall during the sex ed portion of the science class. Their parents did not sign the right paperwork so the kids did not get a chance to learn. The internet is all about having to click you are 18, which makes it a taboo.

Look at alcohol it is all over here as well, but is forbidden until 21. It is in our stores and on the tv and such but is also forbidden. Many people do not talk about the issue of alcohol abuse.

The same is true in my opinion about Sex. Sex Education is important as well as how the adults handle it. The way we hide it and make it a taboo but flaunt it as well makes it even more appealing to the children.

I agree that random sex has a big issue on the subject for it seems like there is no consequence for the adults. If a parent cheats and gets caught they get a divorce and no real consequence. Just the children who see it learn from those experiences.
]

 

[MA-Caver]

Sorry I’m late to this.

Minor = not yet reached the age of consent.

Therefore there is no such thing as a consenting minor.

Also if someone were not already predisposed to having sex with a minor then any amount of enticement would not work.

Also if a minor could consent then what about a child that is way to young to even understand the question?

AMEN!

Kane: If it were about minors having sex with minors... then that's one thing... What your topic and thread is implying/saying is that it's OK for an ADULT to have sex with a minor (for clarification see above definition of a minor). And we are saying that it is NOT OK! If you want to live in that type of society then Taiwan is a good start because THERE it is legal... HERE it is NOT. That's why these guys are being busted that's why they need to get help. Because morally & ethically it is just plain wrong in the opinions of the American people, who voted in majority, for this action to be against the law!
On a lot of laws I don't agree with.. but on THIS one... I'm right behind it 100%.

Those nimrods are breaking the law. And I think it's great that a news-program is helping build evidence against these morons, and the fact that they ran out to get away (from the "trap") suggest an element of guilt on their part which shows that they KNOW that what they were doing (solicting sex from a minor) was WRONG!

 

[Ping898]

Teenagers ARE going to have sex, it's nature, those urges are there.

Just as a side note, can we please avoid broad generalizations. SOME teenagers are going to have sex. Others of us have made it well into our twenties, having had plenty of opportunities, without giving into the...urges as you put it Andrew, and we have no intention of giving into them until a ceremony has been had and there is a ring found on our finger.

I think it is naive to assume that if you give kids abstenance only education that seems to be the push of certain leaders that then no teenagers will have sex, that said, I hate it when people assume that just cause a kid/teen has had education about sex and condom that he or she will then go have sex the next day.

My opinion, sex between an adult and minor is never ok. There can never truly be consent in my book. Sexual predators seek out minors who are vulnerable, and exploit their weaknesses. That isn't true consent to me.

 

[Adept]

However it is your opinion that sex is a significant enough decision that requires maturity.

My opinion, and that of the majority of people where I live. Thats how democracies work. The majority of people get their way.

You should not be able to force this belief upon others.

Why not? Society regulates it's own behaviour. In the western world, at this time, we don't want people under 16 having sex. You don't like it? Then mail your local member of parliament/senator/governor, whatever you have where you live, and ask to have the law changed.

I mean heck, it sounds like a great idea for the parents to decide when and who the kids get to have sex with. Then someone can have all their drinking buddies come over and have sex with his four year old son, which he'll gladly do if they promise him a puppy.

You see where this can go? Now sure, this might happen anyway. But at least those people can be punished for it. Under your proposal, the kid wasn't forced, the parent gave his consent, so no wrong has been done. Most people aren't cool with that.

 

[Carol]

I agree with you but again, it is the parent's responsibility to regulate what their children do, not the state. That is the whole point of this thread. Until the crime has been committed (child rape) it should be in the parent's domain. We can't rely on the state to make parents more responsible, they need to be responsible themselves. That includes keeping children away from pedophiles. I understand sex is important to many different people but it doesn't mean it has to be treated specially. Ultimately it is the parent's responsibility and not the government's responsibility for anything, sex or not.

Disagree. Too many places in the world where parents are having their 7 and 8 year olds get married, or turning their children into political or financial pawns.

Examples:

The UN feels that a minimum age of 18 is the best way to protect the human rights of children:

http://marriage.about.com/od/arrangedmarriages/a/childbride.htm


INDORE, India While India has been waging a campaign against the traditional practice of child marriage, many people here consider it a failed, half-hearted effort. The government's defeat has been symbolized by the image of Shakuntala Verma, a 48-year-old social worker who lies in a hospital, both arms crudely severed above the wrists.

Verma believes her limbs were slashed by a local villager, angry at the work she was doing in rural Madhya Pradesh, a state in central India, to prevent about 20 child weddings from going ahead.

http://www.iht.com/articles/2005/06/01/news/india.php

But regardless of your opinion, it is still your opinion. You or I shouldn't have the right to force my opinion on someone else through legislation.

I disagree. I think Human Rights Laws are very important.

Some folks may get their rocks off by diddling girls and boys, and some parents could care less, especially when they are gettin' somethin' out of having their kids getting diddled. Thats why laws are needed.

 

[MA-Caver]

Kane, honestly I think probably the best way for you to understand why (some of) are so adamantly against adult/child sex relations is for you to have your own children... then imagine them being diddled/fondled/sexualized by an adult of say... your father's age. Do this for every year that the child has a birthday... put the picture in your head... of YOUR child... it's easy to do it with someone else's... just make it your (for real not imagined) baby/toddler/child/pre-teen/teen-ager/young adult.


Until then..

 

[Andrew Green]

Just as a side note, can we please avoid broad generalizations. SOME teenagers are going to have sex. Others of us have made it well into our twenties, having had plenty of opportunities, without giving into the...urges as you put it Andrew, and we have no intention of giving into them until a ceremony has been had and there is a ring found on our finger.

Of course, that's not what I meant. Some people go there whole lives without having sex. Same as any other activity.

But as a whole, a good chunk of the teenage population will.