Virginia to ban all forms of self defense

[jobo]

Incorrect. There has always been a standing army NOT made of up Militia, starting from the Revolutionary War and going forward. Indisputable fact.

its a bit late to start making factual statements when you've posted a load of incorrect ones.

but at least you've amended it, so it was worth my time to point out the actual history of your country

 

[jobo]

its a bit late to start making factual statements when you've posted a load of incorrect ones.

but at least you've amended it, so it was worth my time to point out the actual history of your country

but even then its still not technically correct,

a standing army is one maintained by a nation during times of peace

as there wasn't as yet a '' nation'' and there wasn't peace till after the war had finished. it wasn't a standing army

 

[dvcochran]

theres an inherent contradiction in what your saying, one one hand you want human rights( and who doesn't, the whole concept that humans have inalienable rights was the biggest step forward this world has ever made)

on the other you seem to support the death penalty, of all the rights human have, the right to life is the most important. with out that the rest are meaningless

So it seems you only want your government to champion the human rights that fit your view

know i know your going to say something like '' if they take a life, they give up their own right to life'' but the very meaning of the term '' inallaible'' means that not possible

once you support a policy of a government choosing which human right you can have, you cant really complain if the same government also removes rights you think are important

Wholeheartedly, 100% disagree.

 

[JowGaWolf]

I do not believe that at all, and I feel this is true for a majority of people

I know there are some good people. I just don't think there are a lot of them. The fact that you have laws for things that should be clear for any "Good Person" to undestand should tell give you a more realistic view of humans. All of the cruel things humans do to each other if given the opportunity. My view of humans is a curate which is why I'm no longer shocked when kids get shot at a school and for nothing to be done to address the issue. That's why when you think "remarkable " when you see a video of someone doing acts of kindness. If that type of kindness was the norm then people would view it as something that happens all the time. No one looks at those videos and. "That's the norm"

The Bible is full of lessons that people should try to be good. Without guidance and restrictions we will always move to our worst selves. If we were already good then there would be no need for laws.

 

[jobo]

Wholeheartedly, 100% disagree.

I'm not at all surprised you disagree, you don't seem to have spent anymore than a few seconds considering it.

As witnessed by your admiration of the judicial system of singapore, singapore doesnt indeed have a very low murder rate, but its also in the bottom 10 of counties for the most blatant disregard for human rights, it does execute quite a lot of people, but its far from sure that the ones it executes are t5he ones who committed the murder, as it doesn't exactly have a fair and transparent judicial process, so its conviction rate is extremely high, it also has very strict controls on gun ownership, which may certainly be a factor in its low rate

 

[JowGaWolf]

. If our government is so smart and all powerful, how do things like this happen? I

because the laws are not flawless. And because the human desire to do wrong is sometimes greater than the desire to do good. Using your example, the law should be edited to specifically address how they got around the sytem.

As for how powerful is the Government, ask yourself how many didn't get around the system.

I never said abortion was nice. That's something that the individual has to live with. Just like killing someone out of self defense. A life was taken and I don't assume abortion is easy for a woman once it's done. That stays with her for the rest of her life.

For me I wouldn't recommend anyone wait until later to do an abortion and I've never advocated such a thing. Just like I wouldn't suggest that one should let infection get to the point where the only option is to cut off your leg. Some thing need to be taken care of as soon as possible vs waiting to the last minute. To me that's just common sense.

 

[JowGaWolf]

What you specifically wrote was: "This should be taken within the historical context in which it was made, during the days of musket rifles and the fact that in the revolutionary war there wasn't a well organized army so you had to call upon citizens to suit up for the cause."

And that's just not correct.

Peace favor your sword,
Kirk

And then I preceded to show links about the Militias who were part of that fighting force. The militias were part of that army .

 

[JowGaWolf]

How do you not understand that liberty has been taken away.

What liberty did you have you have yesterday that you no longer have today? What liberty did you have that 5 years ago that you no longer have now?

 

[JowGaWolf]

well no, lets be clear. The united states did not have a well organised army in the '' revolutionary war, as there was no united states at the time

I did some more research and the idea of an organized army did come to life until a few months after the revolution started. It was created as a result of the start of the war. It was put together using the Militias from the 13 colonies. Then it goes and references how poorly trained and poorly prepared they were. I'm on my phone but a Google search of when the standing army was created will she'd some light on this.

The Militias were used as a reason why a standing army was needed because the Militias performance was so unappealing.

 

[dvcochran]

What liberty did you have you have yesterday that you no longer have today? What liberty did you have that 5 years ago that you no longer have now?

That is Exactly the attitude many politicians want us to have. It is the innocuous change that I fear the most. Liberals are trying very hard to condition people to a certain standard and lower expectations. And many people have zero clue it is happening.

 

[dvcochran]

because the laws are not flawless. And because the human desire to do wrong is sometimes greater than the desire to do good. Using your example, the law should be edited to specifically address how they got around the sytem.

As for how powerful is the Government, ask yourself how many didn't get around the system.

I never said abortion was nice. That's something that the individual has to live with. Just like killing someone out of self defense. A life was taken and I don't assume abortion is easy for a woman once it's done. That stays with her for the rest of her life.

For me I wouldn't recommend anyone wait until later to do an abortion and I've never advocated such a thing. Just like I wouldn't suggest that one should let infection get to the point where the only option is to cut off your leg. Some thing need to be taken care of as soon as possible vs waiting to the last minute. To me that's just common sense.

I did not click the button but much of what you said I have do disagree with my friend. I get that it at the state level that this is gun(?) law happening at but, for me, government cannot be looked at in pieces and judged as good or bad.
It must be held at a much higher standard. If they are truly our leadership why would we expect any less?

 

[dvcochran]

I'm not at all surprised you disagree, you don't seem to have spent anymore than a few seconds considering it.

As witnessed by your admiration of the judicial system of singapore, singapore doesnt indeed have a very low murder rate, but its also in the bottom 10 of counties for the most blatant disregard for human rights, it does execute quite a lot of people, but its far from sure that the ones it executes are t5he ones who committed the murder, as it doesn't exactly have a fair and transparent judicial process, so its conviction rate is extremely high, it also has very strict controls on gun ownership, which may certainly be a factor in its low rate

Well sure; it was very easy to disagree with when it is so wrong. I don't know a great deal about Singapore so admiration would be quite a stretch.
It does not take a genius to Google statistics. Try it sometime.

 

[dvcochran]

I know there are some good people. I just don't think there are a lot of them. The fact that you have laws for things that should be clear for any "Good Person" to undestand should tell give you a more realistic view of humans. All of the cruel things humans do to each other if given the opportunity. My view of humans is a curate which is why I'm no longer shocked when kids get shot at a school and for nothing to be done to address the issue. That's why when you think "remarkable " when you see a video of someone doing acts of kindness. If that type of kindness was the norm then people would view it as something that happens all the time. No one looks at those videos and. "That's the norm"

The Bible is full of lessons that people should try to be good. Without guidance and restrictions we will always move to our worst selves. If we were already good then there would be no need for laws.

I am sorry your life is that jaded. No one should have to live in those surroundings. My life, and surroundings are not. I could give you a long list of things in my life which could justify making that my surroundings, but I choose not to.
I get that a lot of it is the circumstances of our surroundings but a greater part of it is simply a choice.

 

[JowGaWolf]

That is Exactly the attitude many politicians want us to have. It is the innocuous change that I fear the most. Liberals are trying very hard to condition people to a certain standard and lower expectations. And many people have zero clue it is happening.

Not the question I asked. I want to know what freedoms you have lost. In your entire life, what freedoms have you lost?

It must be held at a much higher standard. If they are truly our leadership why would we expect any less?

Really? You are saying this with who as the current president? Higher Standards? lol..

 

[JowGaWolf]

I am sorry your life is that jaded. No one should have to live in those surroundings

Not sure how I'm so Jaded but it's you who is saying the Government is trying to take away your freedoms and yet you have not named one freedom that you lost. This is the same government that you elect leaders to, and the same government in which you can run for office if you so wish. Yet I'm the jaded one? When we can look across 90 years and see that we have gained freedoms.

All of this Anti-Government or Small-Government talk is what is Jaded as if there is some big Liberal Government conspiracy to take away rights and freedom and the paranoia that the Government is "always out to get you." that's what's jaded.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

NOTICE TO ALL MEMBERS:

Political discussion is not allowed, per the user guidelines. Please take such discussions to a forum intended for such.

Gerry Seymour
MartialTalk Moderator
@gpseymour

 

[jobo]

Well sure; it was very easy to disagree with when it is so wrong. I don't know a great deal about Singapore so admiration would be quite a stretch.
It does not take a genius to Google statistics. Try it sometime.

note to mods, this is history, i have no political point to make

a lot of this miscommunication is to do with the transatlantic divided and how the same words are used completely differently in different cultures

what most of the world means by '' human rights'' is those rights enshrined in the universal declaration of human rights, made in 1948.

americans tend to used the term to relate to the bill of right and the constitution of the US written in the mid 1700. which for its time was ground breaking and the main reason for the mass immigration from europe by ''oppressed'' minorities

As such there is always going to be a bone of contention.

now as a fact of history its fair to say that some counties have been slow, ( seventy odd years slow) in implementing the human rights declared in 1948 , america and the UK amongst them. my own country only put the right to life on the statue book around the turn of the century, though actual executions stopped in the early 60s , we retained the legal right to execute for high crimes( treason etc)

america to its credit does have the right to free speech, something that is being very quickly eroded in this country and around the world, but lacks significantly in some other area, such as the right to life and the right to a '' decent'' standard of living and recognising the jurisdiction of the international criminal court

i've copied a link to the universal declaration of human rights so that perhaps we can be conscious of the definitions being used by each other ?
Universal Declaration of Human Rights

 

[JowGaWolf]

Tha

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Political discussion is not allowed, per the user guidelines. Please take such discussions to a forum intended for such.

Gerry Seymour
MartialTalk Moderator
@gpseymour

Thanks for the reminder and the rule that controls and limits what can be said on MT for the benefit of the group.

Rules, laws, restrictions are used to control the natural tendencies of human behavior that has been determined to be detrimental to the governing body (MT operations) and its citizens or members.

Even on a small scale. It played out similar to what we see in generally see in society in general. Without rules, laws,and restriction, human nature would clearly cause more chaos than needed.

 

[JowGaWolf]

note to mods, this is history, i have no political point to make

a lot of this miscommunication is to do with the transatlantic divided and how the same words are used completely differently in different cultures

what most of the world means by '' human rights'' is those rights enshrined in the universal declaration of human rights, made in 1948.

americans tend to used the term to relate to the bill of right and the constitution of the US written in the mid 1700. which for its time was ground breaking and the main reason for the mass immigration from europe by ''oppressed'' minorities

As such there is always going to be a bone of contention.

now as a fact of history its fair to say that some counties have been slow, ( seventy odd years slow) in implementing the human rights declared in 1948 , america and the UK amongst them. my own country only put the right to life on the statue book around the turn of the century, though actual executions stopped in the early 60s , we retained the legal right to execute for high crimes( treason etc)

america to its credit does have the right to free speech, something that is being very quickly eroded in this country and around the world, but lacks significantly in some other area, such as the right to life and the right to a '' decent'' standard of living and recognising the jurisdiction of the international criminal court

i've copied a link to the universal declaration of human rights so that perhaps we can be conscious of the definitions being used by each other ?
Universal Declaration of Human Rights

It was probably more me and dvcochran than you. Things tend go south when political labels are thrown around

 

[Buka]

Yes, the Mods are right, we should cease the talk of politics and go straight to a discussion of religion.

Because, my Dogma is better than your Dogma.....Dog damn it!