US Protests spread to 1000 cities

[JohnEdward]

Bob, you know I disagree. The government oversee the economy. It governs how business does business and the practice of business. It regulates against fair business practices, against monopolies (or should but doesn't do it well). It though the economy and regulation sets up the playing field and rules. If we have a poorly managed economy, poor and incompetent decisions made in terms of the economy, and corporate favoritism over small business (I am pro-small business), and the brilliant idea of the housing crisis; people getting loans they shouldn't have and then those loans mismanaged and mishandled. Allowing Wall Street to go unchecked, all in the name of a free market as an solution to a war-time economy.

Local governments etc. if had that much of impact on the economy and jobs, you wouldn't have so many states without solvency. You wouldn't have states like Michigan and cities like Detroit economic wastelands.You wouldn't have California in the incomprehensible mess it is in now, getting worse as we speak. Places that have high jobless rates, bad economies, high cost of living, deterioration of services etc. And you wouldn't have people and business flooding states like Texas from other states who are more stable and offer some job opportunities. Greed. If you haven't seen it's effects, just look around you. You can't take, take, take, without giving back and not expect to fail. BTW, as hypocritical as it sounds, I blame the hippies for selling out-

 

[Bob Hubbard]

You mean California which by law is requiring tax payers to subsidize illegals? We have too much regulation, too much government involvement. The last 10 years brought us here, the next 10 are going to be worse as a result. Hey, we've tried to manage things, lets try letting them just run for a bit. Can't be much worse.
Politically Incorrect Guide to the Great Depression's a good read btw. Lots of similarities to today. I just hope we don't get an extra 7 years on what should be a 2 year correction now entering it's 3rd year because you have people who pay $900 for a $12 hammer running the show.

 

[Twin Fist]

everythign works better with LESS government in it.

these protests are artificial, we now know that they are being paid for indirectly but ultimately by Soros himself, through all his intermeadiate proxy companies and foundations. the working families party has taken out ads and is paying people to be there.

http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2011/10/pro-obama-working-families-party-seeks-advertises-for-professional-activists-to-fight-wall-street/

In case you had any doubt that these Wall Street protests were being manufactured by the far left, there’s this–
The pro-Obama Working Families Party of New York posted this advertisement on Craig’s list. They are looking for energetic progressives to help them to fight to hold Wall Street accountable. And the pay is $350-$650 a week depending on the responsibility and length of time of staff.

it's all fake.

 

[JohnEdward]

You mean California which by law is requiring tax payers to subsidize illegals? We have too much regulation, too much government involvement. The last 10 years brought us here, the next 10 are going to be worse as a result. Hey, we've tried to manage things, lets try letting them just run for a bit. Can't be much worse.
Politically Incorrect Guide to the Great Depression's a good read btw. Lots of similarities to today. I just hope we don't get an extra 7 years on what should be a 2 year correction now entering it's 3rd year because you have people who pay $900 for a $12 hammer running the show.

I agree 100% I lived in California long enough to get the hell out, and go back home. It is to me a model of failure. Where this country is at now. I blame everyone government, business and the people of that state and their adhesion to self interest individually and groups. That state has made all the wrong and wtf choices all they way around and they don't see to learn from it. It is a fractured and shattered state, run by incompetence for decades, including Brown (first terms decades ago) and Reagan, to WTF Anrold Schwarzenegger, to the current WTF Jerry Brown. It is a freaking mess of a state, and this country is not far behind it. Pretty soon if there isn't something done to take this country in a more positive direction, it will not have to deal with illegal immigration from the South or anywhere else, we will be the ones immigrating. Rant over.

 

[JohnEdward]

everythign works better with LESS government in it.

these protests are artificial, we now know that they are being paid for indirectly but ultimately by Soros himself, through all his intermeadiate proxy companies and foundations. the working families party has taken out ads and is paying people to be there.

http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2011/10/pro-obama-working-families-party-seeks-advertises-for-professional-activists-to-fight-wall-street/

In case you had any doubt that these Wall Street protests were being manufactured by the far left, there’s this–
The pro-Obama Working Families Party of New York posted this advertisement on Craig’s list. They are looking for energetic progressives to help them to fight to hold Wall Street accountable. And the pay is $350-$650 a week depending on the responsibility and length of time of staff.

it's all fake.

Ya ever live in California that is fake. I don't think the protests have been manufactured by the left at all, it is people unhappy with the result of Wall Street taking advantage of the people. Hey maybe you made lots of money off investments. Clearly the protesters have and see a wrong. I have to agree, just as I agree with having legal immigration instead of illegal immigration. Affordable, reasonable health care, not being over-taxed so others don't have pay tax. Support for small business, jobs- low unemployment, a healthy economy. A competent and sound government. A non-partisain country (not as bad as it is now with all the nut case extremist). A healthy and sound country. Obviously, some disagree and want to suck all the life left in this country, just for another penny. All the things promised by politicians in these terms, that have yet to be fulfilled.

 

[Twin Fist]

it doesnt matter what you think, or would like to believe. Hell, i would like to believe that all boobies are real, but it just isnt so

the facts are the facts this has been bought and paid for by working families which is funded by the tides foundation which IS george soros.

it is all fake.

there is no "99%"

there are some misguided moronic slackers there who just want some free stuff. but it was all started out as a FAKE demonstration.

and yes, i lived in long beach for 5 years.

 

[JohnEdward]

hmmm....lived in Long Beach for 5 years, explain's your confusion.

it doesnt matter what you think, or would like to believe. Hell, i would like to believe that all boobies are real, but it just isnt so

the facts are the facts this has been bought and paid for by working families which is funded by the tides foundation which IS george soros.

it is all fake.

Where is this place working families pay for boob jobs funded my George Soros' Tides Foundation in California? By god they need to be shut down women of Long Beach should pay for their own fake boobs!

 

[Bob Hubbard]

Sorry, y'all have lost me. If you need me I'll be on Google looking up information on boobs.
(and billing myself for research time which is deductible. God I love my job)

 

[MaxiMe]

I wonder if this would clean up most of the issues:
http://www.google.com/imgres?q=irish+spring&hl=en&sa=X&rls=com.microsoft:en-us:IE-SearchBox&biw=1440&bih=734&tbm=isch&prmd=imvns&tbnid=VIcFVsJX9xRlkM:&imgrefurl=http://www.dpchallenge.com/image.php%3FIMAGE_ID%3D15145&docid=XYXYnMT9kILQZM&w=600&h=398&ei=whqTTsmYLczJrAfSsvWaAQ&zoom=1

 

[Big Don]

I wonder if this would clean up most of the issues:
http://www.google.com/imgres?q=irish+spring&hl=en&sa=X&rls=com.microsoft:en-us:IE-SearchBox&biw=1440&bih=734&tbm=isch&prmd=imvns&tbnid=VIcFVsJX9xRlkM:&imgrefurl=http://www.dpchallenge.com/image.php%3FIMAGE_ID%3D15145&docid=XYXYnMT9kILQZM&w=600&h=398&ei=whqTTsmYLczJrAfSsvWaAQ&zoom=1

That and firehoses...

 

[Big Don]

BTW, is there a list of these supposed 1000 cities?
Yeah, I didn't think so...

 

[Jenna]

Here is a basic flaw in the logic being used: "If you are dissatisfied with the way our economy is going, you must support these protesters." Yes, I am dissatisfied, but no, that does not mean I must support these numskulls.

Another variant apparently posits that if all the solutions tried so far have yielded negative results, then this must be the solution. Uh, no.

And the final insult to logic is the exasperated utterance, "Well, we have to do something." No, we do not. If we are on fire, pouring gasoline on ourselves is 'doing something', but it's not very smart. We do not have to do anything if we cannot do the right thing.

I appreciate this point of view and it makes sense.

If it is ok if I could illustrate -forgive me if it is trite- a loved one of yours is caught in a flash flood which threatens to sweep them against buildings. They are further trapped in their vehicle while serious water ingress threatens to drown them. The rescue services have been rendered temporarily inoperable by systematic managerial avarice and incompetence. You cannot open the door. There is nobody to help. Your loved one will perish. All that is to hand is some potentially hazardous mechanical implement (a cutting torch or device?) You do not even know how to use it and could maim or kill your loved one in the attempt.

Surely your ineptitude with this device is not a factor? Surely you choose to do something? Anything rather than nothing, yes?

I think there are few cases where doing nothing is better than doing something, whatever that something might be? I do not know, I have not thought them all through. Most real life cases, ignoring the problem or muttering to oneself about the injustice is no remedy.

These protestors are rarely experts and cannot know whatever the "right thing" might be. I think they are protesting, and protesting is not trying to do something in this case in the realms of economic solution provision, rather it is attempting to draw attention to those in whose hands power resides to the fact that something does need done urgently; that maintenance of the status quo is simply horribly insufficient. That is just my view.

 

[MA-Caver]

I totally get you man. I was making a generalization.

I know dude, but somehow I still felt the need to clarify. :asian: Circumstances where I'm living now, is a trap. I go out looking for a job I get accused of screwing around, I go out to help some people/friends who need it and I have the time to do so, I still get accused of screwing around. Been accused of NOT looking even though I am whenever it's possible. It's frustrating as hell and my head hurts from banging on the wall, keyboard and any other thing that is within reach.

Here is a basic flaw in the logic being used: "If you are dissatisfied with the way our economy is going, you must support these protesters." Yes, I am dissatisfied, but no, that does not mean I must support these numskulls.

Another variant apparently posits that if all the solutions tried so far have yielded negative results, then this must be the solution. Uh, no.

And the final insult to logic is the exasperated utterance, "Well, we have to do something." No, we do not. If we are on fire, pouring gasoline on ourselves is 'doing something', but it's not very smart. We do not have to do anything if we cannot do the right thing.

In order for evil to flourish good men need do nothing. As you say "we have to do something"... but saying we don't HAVE to is leaving things to run their course and a lot more people hurt. Question is just what IS the "right thing"? Doing nothing? Get up in the morning go to work every day of the week and do the yard work on the weekends then do it all over again? Fine for those who HAVE work to go to. A home to do yard work in (if applicable), triple A credit or whatever that so called "credit score" says is a good number to have. Just mosey on through life and if the government is screwing things up financially and letting good healthy young men go off to a far-away land to die for a bunch of people who'd rather NOT have them there in the first place... well to me that's just burying your head in the sand and hoping nobody sees your *** up in the air and decides that it might be fun to screw with it next. Our beloved Constitution says we have the right to stand up and ***** and moan if we're not happy with the government at present. Our founding fathers wrote that line in specifically because they got tired of being called traitors when they attempted the same thing in their own home country before crossing the ocean and leaving everything else behind because everything else behind became intolerable. Then a lot of them fought and died when family, friends followed them over the ocean and tried to impose the same thing because they still believed in the way things were back home.
We're not the only ones dissatisfied with how governments are doing things. As per my link in an earlier post on this thread we can see how it is growing. It was inevitable that it happening here too.

Hey if conservatives are calling it class warfare, and the democrats doing nothing to change things, both sides not wanting change, not speaking against the protest, and the media pushing that agenda, doing the bidding, it is an obvious slap in the face things need to change. Thank God some people have the nuts to due the American thing, to exercise their freedom to protest (peacefully) against the condition of this country and the government. It is long over due, organized or not, morons or not. At one time this country was taxed on tea, that caused a momentous revolution, changing and giving birth to this country. Something we have forgotten.
Thomas Jefferson 3rd President (1801-1809) said, periodic revolution, “at least once every 20 years,” was “a medicine necessary for the sound health of government.”

I thought I remembered the quote just not exactly. Either way... it does take balls to stand up and say "I protest!" Thing is... it shouldn't have to take balls to stand up and say "I don't like what's going on here." Bravery against the face of government shouldn't exist at all. If people are calling those who are protesting "brave" then what does that say about them? They're scared to do the same thing even though they feel the same frustration, anger, resentment that the protesters are. To me, that says a helluva lot right there about how the government is getting control over the people. "Fear, will keep the local systems in line..." ~ Grand Moff Tarkin.
People are growing tired of it, promises promises every 4 years and nothing changes except the face on the screen. Question is are these so called imbeciles willing to die for what they're protesting ... whatever the hell it is?

Not every problem has a government solution. Government may have gotten us into this problem, but that does not mean that government can get us out.

In the meantime, these protesters are imbeciles of the first water. The fact that we have problems does not grant them legitimacy. Another group that sees we are in trouble, thinks they know the reason, and offers protest to speak about it is Fred Phelps' "God Hates Fags" group. They, likewise, have not 'drunk the koolaid'. Just because a group is protesting and offensive does not mean they have a legitimate point.

The concept "Look, these guys are different and bold! We must listen to them and show them respect," is not logical, it's based on pure emotion. I reject it. Lots of morons are different and bold and not worthy of respect.

True that... remember the media once getting all the interviews on tape/disk/whatever!! are going to be awfully damned selective about who they're going to show saying whatever. "No, this guy is making a helluva lot of sense, so we'll cut him from the segment/clip, but that guy who couldn't string 3 words together... lets put him after the ditzy blonde chick in the hot tight jeans who had difficulty putting two words together."

Bill I understand, not every problem is solved by the government. That isn't the problem, it is the government making problems.

This I have to slightly disagree with you John... remember those making the problem were voted into office by the ones who are complaining so they're just as responsible for the problem. Again our Constitution says we can vote them out... but we don't. It's like the gasoline analogy... unless you pull that sealed can of gasoline out of the burning room... eventually it's going to go boom!

 

[Bob Hubbard]

This isn't directed at anyone specific. This is a general statement.
Here's the thing. If you are actually busting your *** looking, and by looking I mean putting serious time in, looking at everything you can, reaching outside the box, have your resume polished, and when you get interviews show up trying to get the job then you have nothing to be sorry/sad/ashamed of. Only you know if this is true. I know a lot of people who are claiming they can't find work who check the sunday paper in under 5 minutes then go back to WOW, Farmville, etc.
This isn't directed at anyone specific. This is a general statement.
In the same time 1 of them claimed no one was hiring, a friend of mine took on their 3rd part time job. One person found 3, another couldn't even crack the want ads. -Those- are the people I hold in contempt. Not the folks making real efforts. I'm not going to post this disclaimer every time I say 'lazy slackers'. People know who they are, so if it doesn't apply to you, stop getting noses out of joint.
This isn't directed at anyone specific. This is a general statement.

 

[MA-Caver]

This isn't directed at anyone specific. This is a general statement.
Here's the thing. If you are actually busting your *** looking, and by looking I mean putting serious time in, looking at everything you can, reaching outside the box, have your resume polished, and when you get interviews show up trying to get the job then you have nothing to be sorry/sad/ashamed of. Only you know if this is true. I know a lot of people who are claiming they can't find work who check the sunday paper in under 5 minutes then go back to WOW, Farmville, etc.
This isn't directed at anyone specific. This is a general statement.
In the same time 1 of them claimed no one was hiring, a friend of mine took on their 3rd part time job. One person found 3, another couldn't even crack the want ads. -Those- are the people I hold in contempt. Not the folks making real efforts. I'm not going to post this disclaimer every time I say 'lazy slackers'. People know who they are, so if it doesn't apply to you, stop getting noses out of joint.
This isn't directed at anyone specific. This is a general statement.

Thanks Bob, (and nods to Omar again).

On a separate note: This I found on FB earlier today with the comment "this man speaks my heart".
(Warning, it's Carlin uncensored so if you know Carlin and are offended by language then don't read it). If it's inappropriate then I apologize in advance and will respect removal of this post. :asian:

 

[Twin Fist]

Carlin was a moronic burnt out hippy

two words totally destroys that little rant

steve jobs

two more words

bill gates

 

[Empty Hands]

Carlin was a moronic burnt out hippy

Burnt out hippy? Heh. Carlin was angry. And very intolerant of ********.

two words totally destroys that little rant

steve jobs

two more words

bill gates

Clearly someone wasn't paying attention in statistics class.

The greatest predictor of lifetime wealth is the wealth of the family you were born into. Case in point, Bill Gates was born into a wealthy and influential family - his father was a very prominent lawyer in the Seattle area.

Jobs was adopted and his family was not particularly wealthy. You would have hated him though. Dropped acid - said it was one of the 2-3 most important things he had done in his life. Went to India and became a Buddhist. Hung around a Hare Krishna temple.

Some people win the lottery too. Outliers are not a sound basis for judging an economy.

 

[JohnEdward]

BTW, Twin Fists (wish I had a name, for the sake of respect), Carlin is talking about the "American Dream." Owning a home, living comfortably not struggling financially, kind of like that thing we had for a short time, hmmm....a middle class. The American Dream can either be having a good job (pays well for a middle class life) or running your own business. Just not being an entrepreneur. He is talking about the limited and control of opportunity for their best interests. Not that an opportunity doesn't exist. It does and not for everyone anymore. That is clear.


* Now, I have watched many small businesses fail more than succeed. It isn't easy, and some people who do get it off the ground it takes 5 years as it use to take 1 to make a good profit. That is relative to the person and type of business. But, the average is now 5 years. If you haven't folded with in that time, your likely to succeed for at least several more years. Many small businesses folded under Clinton and since than it has been more difficult then ever. Then there is the capital needed to start it up and most people don't have that. So many people as an alternative to starting their dream business get trapped in the direct marketing vortex, ending up making people above them richer, and them always struggling. Hard knocks. Some don't, some find the money, second mortgage, loan sharks, put the kids and the dog up for collateral (kidding). Because it takes thousands of dollars to get a decent small business going. And then those who are moderately successful, very much like what Jobs and Gates found out, their grow would be limited by big business. IBM would work really hard and do everything in their power to kept them from being successful, to squelch any competition. Both men had something most other people in their shoes didn't, a new technology they could take in different directions and into new markets where IBM didn't have a foot print, or controlled.

Per Jobs and Gates. Yep, in the 1970s. Never would be able to do it today. And no one since. Ever try and get your first product on the grocery self. as an example. Talk about no opportunity, dang the big food manufactures, like ConAgri, will see you don't get your product on the self, competition is fierce.

Not every small business person hits a home run, or ever gets a hit or on base.

 

[Twin Fist]

bull ****

there are people in my nursing school class that were born as poor as it gets, through financial aid and students loans they will become nurses,a nd as an RN? very solidly in the middle class, earning from $30-$50 an hour

ANYONE can succeed.

hell, i am 45 and in nursing school and i am going to graduate, because i work HARD at it


and i was born poor as hell.

this "the american dream is dead" is bull ****

 

[Bob Hubbard]

I got my first DBA when I was 18. I'm 41 now.
I've had 4 registered DBAs, as sole proprietorships, and partnerships.
1 became a corporation in 2001.
1 is likely going LLC next year.
From those came SilverStar WebDesigns Inc (2001) and Hubbard Photography (2009).
The later kinda spun off from the former.
SilverStar owns and operates a couple of communities, including this one.
Spun off it's web hosting unit a year and a half ago.
I joke that I get paid to watch Scooby Doo. It's a half-truth exaggeration. My work day is very flexible, the trade off is large pay outs.
Some months, I scrape by, others I run quite well off.
I took a 5 figure hit in leaving the hosting industry, offset somewhat by a smaller 5 figure kick from continuing to operate as server admin and back end support + royalties.
I'm not rich.
I want to be.
4 times in college, 4 times dropping out.
Lots of dead end jobs. 2006 I worked at the mall, have done 3 stints at McDonalds.
Also cut grass and clear snow when I get a paid op.
I manage these communities, do web design, consult, photograph, graphics work, and more.
I've got enough flex from all these that it allows me to spend time with my 89 year old grandfather, help out my mother and do the occasional day trip to meet new folks, shoot out of town or just relax.
It allowed me to be there with my uncle last year as he lost his battle with lung cancer...and allowed me to get me grandfather there to see his son for the last time.
I'm not financially rich. I'd like to be.
But, sometimes, there are more important things.
As to getting in the markets...one of my former clients is fighting that same battle now. Managed to get into Whole Foods and HEB (I think). They make Kefir.
Another guy I know, published his books himself rather than fight for shelf space in the chains.
I've seen this little dumb game become huge on Facebook. Maybe you've heard of it? Farmville.
I know a gal who made a mint making themes for Myspace before she was 18.
There are thousands of similar tales.
But most people don't have it in them to do what it takes, so they claim it's no longer possible.
While they're doing that, the next generations wiz kids are making it happen.

You can succeed. It's not easy, it takes hard work, it takes pain, but it can be done.

We have more -new- millionaires now than 20 years ago. What's that tell you?