UFC versus YOU

[Nevada_MO_Guy]

Hi All,

Thanks for checking out this thread.

However, since it has already generated some negative reputation for me, I thought I would try to clarify why I started it, before I lose another little green square.

First I wanted to post the current UFC rules to let people know just how many there are.

Second I wanted to show the difference between various styles and the UFC, on what is and isn't allowed.

I realize that the UFC is a professional sporting event. I also realize that most of the styles on Martial Talk are based on self-defense. So we are comparing apples to oranges, so to speak. That is exactly what I am after.

The scenario for this thread is make-believe. Just wanted to throw that in incase anyone was still confused.

Maybe titling this thread UFC rules versus your styles rules would have been clearer.

Also I know that on forums typing in capitals is like raising your voice or yelling. When I typed UFC versus YOU. I didn't mean for that to come across like I was making a challenge against you or your style.
The UFC is normally capitalized so I capitalized YOU as well, I suppose I could have typed ufc versus you....but it just doesn't stand out though.

 

[Last Fearner]

Thanks for checking out this thread.

However, since it has already generated some negative reputation for me, I thought I would try to clarify why I started it, before I lose another little green square.

Sometimes, I think this "reputation" thing gets a bit out of hand. It is nice to get positive feedback from other members here at MT. I can understand respectfully disagreeing with someone by posting a different point of view, but I can not imagine giving someone a negative reputation mark unless they were extremely rude, flagrantly dis-respectful (not just, "oh, you disagreed with me and hurt my feelings, so I'm going to give you a bad rep"), or they break the rules of MT. Personally, I don't do bad reps on people. I think positive reps is a much better reinforcement of desired behavior.

Case in point. . . . Nevada Guy posted a question!!! It is a thread designed to be thought provoking, and elicit varying responses to a valid question. Why would anyone give a negative rep, remark for simply asking the input, and opinions of others??

Furthermore, if I understand this correctly, Nevada Guy was admonished for using a brief amount of Caps. It seems to me that yelling in Caps is done with longer word strings, and also within the context, and tone of what is being said. Placing an emphasis on a word or two with caps seems fine to me - - I do it myself, on occasion.

As to the question here in this thread, as a matter of principle, I would fight according to the rules of the match. However, as the question is a "what if" scenario, my training for self defense would utilize any of those 1 through 21 that do not pertain to a sport match. If I were behaving as a competitor, I certainly would not break rules 22 through 31.

In competition, I don't believe in doing the following, even if I'm allowed to:
2. Eye gouging of any kind.
3. Biting.
4. Hair pulling.
6. Groin attacks of any kind.
7. Putting a finger into any orifice or into any cut or laceration on an opponent.
9. Striking to the spine or the back of the head.
10. Striking downward using the point of the elbow.
11. Throat strikes of any kind, including, without limitation, grabbing the trachea.
12. Clawing, pinching or twisting the flesh.
13. Grabbing the clavicle.
14. Kicking the head of a grounded opponent.
15. Kneeing the head of a grounded opponent.
16. Stomping a grounded opponent.
17. Kicking to the kidney with the heel.
18. Spiking an opponent to the canvas on his head or neck.
19. Throwing an opponent out of the ring or fenced area.
21. Spitting at an opponent.

I consider the above acts to be too dangerous for "sports," and not necessary to win the match. I would also add in to these rules, "intentionally dislocating a joint, or breaking a bone." These things kind of take the fun out of competing. If I were fighting by Taekwondo sport rules according to WTF regulations. . . . I wouldn't be allowed to do any of those things, nor would I be allowed to grab, grapple, throw, take-down, or hold my opponent in any way. That doesn't mean we don't train to do that, we just don't use it in WTF tournaments.

CM D. J. Eisenhart

 

[Sapper6]

neg-repping for asking a question...? that's ignorant.

 

[AceHBK]

I like to say first to Nevada welcome to MT!

Second I will say that the title of the thread had me roll my eyes b/c I thought it was another "UFC is the best" type of thing that we see on here all the time.

Ok I really rolled my eye and groaned loudly. I was like "ok here we go again as westerners we try to prove that UFC is better than TMA and that we have evolved past them and yada yada yada....bada bing bada boom...." *Off my soapbox now*

I will say after reading it but more than anything your clarification of it I see what you are saying and it is a good question. I am glad that I was wrong.

Lastly I agree with Last Fearner. Very well said.

 

[Nevada_MO_Guy]

I like to say first to Nevada welcome to MT!

Thanks for the welcome.

The style I'm studing uses alot of eye, throat/neck and groin strikes.

So I would say I would be breaking rules: 2, 6 and 11.

By the way, what is up with rule #7, you know they had to make that rule because it has happened before.

I think Tank Abbot was fond of sticking his fingers in his opponents nose, trying to cut off air....maybe that is some of what #7 is about. :idunno:

 

[Sapper6]

Thanks for the welcome.

The style I'm studing uses alot of eye, throat/neck and groin strikes.

So I would say I would be breaking rules: 2, 6 and 11.

By the way, what is up with rule #7, you know they had to make that rule because it has happened before.

I think Tank Abbot was fond of sticking his fingers in his opponents nose, trying to cut off air....maybe that is some of what #7 is about. :idunno:

i'm glad you took the time to answer your own question. i think alot of the posters in this thread misunderstood what you meant, and thus felt the need for neg-repping followed by non-substantive commenting. don't sweat it man. MT is great place but of course every garden has a few wilted flowers.

now then, i understood your question from the start and was hoping to hear what others had to say about their respective systems. i, myself, prefer to target soft tissue areas; mainly out of vulnerability and the fact that those areas cannot be conditioned. IMHO, i think you'll find a large majority of MMA style fighters will not train to defend against soft tissue attacks. in my experience, these fighters' goals are to get you down and pound you into submission plain and simple. 99% of the rules you have stated are included in my training regimen. this is what we do. fighting is not about rules and regulation, it's about survival.

correct me if i'm wrong, but i get the feeling you were trying to surmise what other members train for in their systems. very interesting question. hopefully others here will take the time to answer, rather than speculate on your intentions behind posing the question.

cheers.

 

[Dark]

Hmm... ALL of the people that make it to the UFC are professional fighters... they do this for a living, and by the fact that they got up through the lower leagues into the UFC, they are probably pretty good even among their professional colleages. Most likely, unless you are either exceptionally lucky or also a professional figher you won't have much of a chance to try to pull off much of anything before getting annihilated.

I disagree I think I could take everyone of them with one hand tied behind my back and blindfolded, of course I'd regain consciousness in the ER and realize I got stomped. lol But I still think I could do fairly well. Fairly well means last atleast ten seconds, I hope.

As for breaking the rules, I think they'd need to invent new rules with me, like no brassknuckles under your gloves lol...

 

[Explorer]

I'm too old for UFC so they'd have to make a rule restricting me from carrying AND using my 1911.

 

[RTKDCMB]

Hey All,

Below are the current rules for the UFC on what an Ultimate Fighter is trained not to do.

If you had to face off with a UFC fighter in the octagon; with him using the rules he knows and you using your school(s) style and training. (as best as you know it)

How many rules would you be able to break?

Fouls:
1. Butting with the head.
2. Eye gouging of any kind.
3. Biting.
4. Hair pulling.
5. Fish hooking.
6. Groin attacks of any kind.
7. Putting a finger into any orifice or into any cut or laceration on an opponent.
8. Small joint manipulation.
9. Striking to the spine or the back of the head.
10. Striking downward using the point of the elbow.
11. Throat strikes of any kind, including, without limitation, grabbing the trachea.
12. Clawing, pinching or twisting the flesh.
13. Grabbing the clavicle.
14. Kicking the head of a grounded opponent.
15. Kneeing the head of a grounded opponent.
16. Stomping a grounded opponent.
17. Kicking to the kidney with the heel.
18. Spiking an opponent to the canvas on his head or neck.
19. Throwing an opponent out of the ring or fenced area.
20. Holding the shorts or gloves of an opponent.
21. Spitting at an opponent.
22. Engaging in an unsportsmanlike conduct that causes an injury to an opponent.
23. Holding the ropes or the fence.
24. Using abusive language in the ring or fenced area.
25. Attacking an opponent on or during the break.
26. Attacking an opponent who is under the care of the referee.
27. Attacking an opponent after the bell has sounded the end of the period of unarmed combat.
28. Flagrantly disregarding the instructions of the referee.
29. Timidity, including, without limitation, avoiding contact with an opponent, intentionally or consistently dropping the mouthpiece or faking an injury.
30. Interference by the corner.
31. Throwing in the towel during competition.

1. Yes
2. If I am in a fight for my life. yes, in a sporting contest it would be a bit harsh.
3. If it gives me an opportunity to get out of a hold, sure but I think if I had to wear a mouthguard it would be difficult.
4. Yes
5. I'm not sticking my fingers anywhere where they could be bitten.
6. Yes
7. I generally do not put my fingers into people's orifices without them paying for dinner.
8. Yes
9. If I am in a fight for my life. yes, in a sporting contest it would be a bit harsh.
10.Yes
11. If I am in a fight for my life. yes, in a sporting contest it would be a bit harsh.
12. Yes.
13. Yes
14. Yes
15. Yes
16. It would depend on the target and the amount of force required (I don't think I would ever feel the need to stomp on someones head or chest full force).
17. Yes.
18. Slamming yes, spiking like a pile driver would be a bit much.
19.Yes.
20. Yes.
21. Not much use for that in a sporting environment.
22. If I agreed to a sporting contest I would be agreeing to a code of conduct so being a tool would not be an option.
23. Yes.
24. If you can't say anything nice then shut the hell up.
25. Why ruin my break?
26. No because I am not a 8=>, its a contest after all.
27. No because I am not a 8=>, its a contest after all.
28. It pays to be a good listener.
29. I'd be there to win, not run away.
30. Not really up to me is it?
31. How could I throw in a towel when I am too busy fighting?

However since I do not train for competitions and only study the art for self defence I would never be in this situation to begin with.

 

[Cirdan]

I see this was my reply eight years ago.

If I HAD to face someone in the octagon, whatever it may be, I would break evry last one of those rules if given an opportunity. Tough I`ve never practiced fishooking :EG:

I`ve added fishooking to my training since then

(yes it is in the system like striking the groin/eyes/throat and finishing off an downed opponent)

 

[drop bear]

A competitive pro fighter would murder me in serious competition regardless of how dirty I wanted to play. And that is a local not the UFC.

I have seen mma guys punish people in the gym and there is plenty enough hurt available within the rule set. Even ground and pound elbows is pretty sobering.

But I have one ace in the hole. Rule 29. I am over the wall and out of that cage.

 

[Daniel Sullivan]

Hey All,

Below are the current rules for the UFC on what an Ultimate Fighter is trained not to do.

If you had to face off with a UFC fighter in the octagon; with him using the rules he knows and you using your school(s) style and training. (as best as you know it)

How many rules would you be able to break?

Fouls:
1. Butting with the head.
2. Eye gouging of any kind.
3. Biting.
4. Hair pulling.
5. Fish hooking.
6. Groin attacks of any kind.
7. Putting a finger into any orifice or into any cut or laceration on an opponent.
8. Small joint manipulation.
9. Striking to the spine or the back of the head.
10. Striking downward using the point of the elbow.
11. Throat strikes of any kind, including, without limitation, grabbing the trachea.
12. Clawing, pinching or twisting the flesh.
13. Grabbing the clavicle.
14. Kicking the head of a grounded opponent.
15. Kneeing the head of a grounded opponent.
16. Stomping a grounded opponent.
17. Kicking to the kidney with the heel.
18. Spiking an opponent to the canvas on his head or neck.
19. Throwing an opponent out of the ring or fenced area.
20. Holding the shorts or gloves of an opponent.
21. Spitting at an opponent.
22. Engaging in an unsportsmanlike conduct that causes an injury to an opponent.
23. Holding the ropes or the fence.
24. Using abusive language in the ring or fenced area.
25. Attacking an opponent on or during the break.
26. Attacking an opponent who is under the care of the referee.
27. Attacking an opponent after the bell has sounded the end of the period of unarmed combat.
28. Flagrantly disregarding the instructions of the referee.
29. Timidity, including, without limitation, avoiding contact with an opponent, intentionally or consistently dropping the mouthpiece or faking an injury.
30. Interference by the corner.
31. Throwing in the towel during competition.

Technically none; I study a sword art, and there appear to be no restrictions in this list regarding the use of a sword.

Seriously though, forget about all of the comments about 'you fight like you train.' They don't hold water. Very few, if any of those posting on this thread train with the level of intensity that a UFC competitor does. Fighting is their job. It's what they do. They train day in and day out for probably more than two or three hours a day. They put tremendous effort into improving their skills, often focusing on minutae in order to hit that next level and they study their opponents who may or may not have a similar background to themselves.

I don't really care what ninja moves of death you think your art has. The idea that an MA hobbyist who thinks he's some kind of suburban ninja will be able to larp his way to victory with illegal moves against a trained pro is fantasy. And that is regardless of whether or not it is a UFC fighter, a pro boxer, or top level competitive judoka, taekwondoin, or karateka. If you're fantasizing about beating someone based on what their competition rules prohibit, then you're just fantasizing.

Edit: When I say 'you,' I mean the general you, not you, Nevada_MO_Guy.

 

[Daniel Sullivan]

Hi All,

Thanks for checking out this thread.

However, since it has already generated some negative reputation for me, I thought I would try to clarify why I started it, before I lose another little green square.

First I wanted to post the current UFC rules to let people know just how many there are.

Second I wanted to show the difference between various styles and the UFC, on what is and isn't allowed.

I realize that the UFC is a professional sporting event. I also realize that most of the styles on Martial Talk are based on self-defense. So we are comparing apples to oranges, so to speak. That is exactly what I am after.

The scenario for this thread is make-believe. Just wanted to throw that in incase anyone was still confused.

Maybe titling this thread UFC rules versus your styles rules would have been clearer.

Also I know that on forums typing in capitals is like raising your voice or yelling. When I typed UFC versus YOU. I didn't mean for that to come across like I was making a challenge against you or your style.
The UFC is normally capitalized so I capitalized YOU as well, I suppose I could have typed ufc versus you....but it just doesn't stand out though.

Negative rep? That's ridiculous. Sorry to hear. Nothing negative worthy in your post. Welcome to MT, by the way.

 

[Tony Dismukes]

Daniel has it. Modern UFC fighters train as a full time job. There's a huge difference between a pro and a hobbyist.

For those who are convinced that doing something outside the current rules of MMA competition would give them the victory, it might be instructive to look at the case of Gerard Gordeau. The Dutch savateur/karateka bit Royce Grace in the first UFC - and got choked out for his trouble. He severely eye-gouged Yuki Nakai a couple of years later in Japan and still lost by submission. Gordeau was an experienced fighter with a significant size advantage in both fights. Dirty fighting still did not give him the victory.

 

[Daniel Sullivan]

Well, it depends on the situation, doesn't it?

If we were in the octagon, I could break any of those rules, if the situation presented itself. But then, so could my opponent. And I imagine I'd get disqualified rather quickly, so it's not a very useful scenario, is it?

If we were on the street, again I could break any of them (except the ones pertaining specifically to octagon environments) but again, so could my opponent.

If this UFC opponent and I were to spar/fight, I imagine we would agree on a mutual set of rules and if either of us broke them, we would be disqualified.

I'm afraid I don't really understand the purpose of this thread.

The scenario appears to be sparring with a UFC fighter. The UFC fighter is using UFC rules vs. 'you' are using your school's style of training, which may be more or less restrictive. The question is, fighting in your style, which rule or rules would you be ignoring? I say ignoring, because you are restricted only by your own art in this scenario. He/she is the one who must abide by UFC restrictions.

An question to the OP regarding the scenario; in styles with competitive rules that restrict techniques within their own art, such as Kukki taekwondo, sport karate, and judo, are you restricting practitioners of those arts to their own fighting rules?

 

[ballen0351]

An question to the OP regarding the scenario

he hasn't logged in since 2007 good chance hes not going to answer your question

 

[wingchun100]

he hasn't logged in since 2007 good chance hes not going to answer your question

LOL

Well, the topic still has some activity, so I will say I could break almost all those rules. I will NOT insert my finger in a competitor's orifice though. Yuck.

 

[Brian R. VanCise]

Nice old thread but a good one!

Personally, I think one of the things people miss and it has been mentioned above is physical conditioning. Pro fighters are at a supreme level of physical conditioning. This alone gives them a huge advantage in a physical confrontation. The other thing is that it is very easy to go outside of rule sets. Really it is not hard at all. Any pro mma athlete would be a handful to deal with. Just think of an mma pro athlete realizing he is in over his head and walla he pulls out his pocket knife. Jab, cross, hook, overhand right all work well with a pocket knife plus he has the physical attributes and conditioning to bring it to bear at a high level. Now could the mma training work against him? Sure. However, he is still going to have phenomenal conditioning and attributes that are going to be formidable no matter what.

Now here is a wake up call to all martial practitioner's out there my advice is to work your attributes and your conditioning. Go beyond your martial training and run, swim, cycle, hike, mountain climb, surf, paddle board, lift weights and kettle bells, hit the heavy bag, wooden dummy, focus mitts, ski, snowboard, etc. Be active, be physically fit and develop your body to the best of your ability! That way hopefully you will also have an advantage in a physical encounter regardless of who you are facing!

 

[Daniel Sullivan]

he hasn't logged in since 2007 good chance hes not going to answer your question

Wow! I didn't realize that this was a thread necro.

 

[drop bear]

Yeah that was me. I wanted to at least post something I knew something about. So I hunted a bunch of mma threads.