New "MMA Sport" Idea of Mine

[Tez3]

but it can be really boring to watch two really good guys going at it once tired and waiting on the other guy to make a mistake so they can catch them. That's why I'd support the imposition of a stalling thing, or the pin thing, just to get the action going again.

That shouldn't be happening, referees should be telling the fighters 'work or I stand you up', too many refs aren't qualified and don't realise that they should stand them up if after being warned they still don't work. Judges should also realise that 'laying and praying' shouldn't attract points! There is a remedy for not working, it's just that officials don't seem to either know about them or don't care. Too often judges will 'mark up' a takedown but forget that unless followed by positive techniques then it shouldn't be marked up.


Rules from UFC Judging section


F "Effective grappling is judged by considering the amount of successful executions of a legal takedown and reversals. Examples of factors to consider are take downs from standing position to mount position, passing the guard to mount position, and bottom position fighters using an active threatening guard."

 

[TheArtofDave]

I like Karate Combat

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

I'm sorry. What's the goal here? What about current MMA are we trying to improve?

I would like to see 3 fighters in the cage that anybody can fight against anybody.

 

[skribs]

I'm sorry. What's the goal here? What about current MMA are we trying to improve?

I think it's the matches that get boring to watch. Striking is interesting. Grappling that's actually moving is interesting, like when wrestling or BJJ is being applied.

But when you run into a situation where one person is on top and in control, but doesn't move to advance their position toward a submission, or where someone just ends up pinned against the fence for several minutes with no progress towards a KO or a takedown or submission, it gets boring real fast.

It would be like if two boxers just stood there.

With that in mind as one of the major problems being addressed, I don't see how making submissions LESS valuable, in that they are no longer a guaranteed win, would promote more aggressiveness in timid grapplers.

I also don't feel it's in the spirit of MMA. The goal of MMA is not to have the most points, it's to be the winner of the fight. The winner is the person who KO'd or submitted his opponent. The reason these are the victory conditions are because if you continued to apply pressure after your opponent taps, you would choke them out or else severely injure them, to the point they would be much less effective if they tried to continue to fight. MMA is "I can take any fighter with any style, and defeat them", and defeat is shown by the inability to continue the fight.

I do agree it is a problem with a lot of fights, that they become a matter of one person being pinned and unable to escape, but the other person being unable to advance their position. I've seen some rounds where there's a takedown twenty seconds in, and the entire rest of the round is just one person holding the other in place and throwing an awkward punch or two every twenty seconds or so.

I'd say a better solution would be to give the referees the ability to call "no progress" (just like in Foosball when the ball is stuck between two bars) and stand the players up, but I've also seen fights where there was like a half second of inaction and the ref stood them up.

 

[Tez3]

But when you run into a situation where one person is on top and in control, but doesn't move to advance their position toward a submission, or where someone just ends up pinned against the fence for several minutes with no progress towards a KO or a takedown or submission, it gets boring real fast.

Referees fault, judges too if they don't deduct points.

I'd say a better solution would be to give the referees the ability to call "no progress" (just like in Foosball when the ball is stuck between two bars) and stand the players up

Referees already have the power to stand fighters up for not working. I'd suggest you are watching fights with inadequately trained referees.

 

[skribs]

Referees already have the power to stand fighters up for not working. I'd suggest you are watching fights with inadequately trained referees.

Well, considering this is their reality show and the owner of UFC is directly involved with the production of the show, I would hope they have quality referees on the show, but apparently they don't.

 

[Tez3]

Well, considering this is their reality show and the owner of UFC is directly involved with the production of the show, I would hope they have quality referees on the show, but apparently they don't.

No, not all the referees are good on there and you should start watching a lot of other promotions before you slag MMA off.

 

[Headhunter]

Well, considering this is their reality show and the owner of UFC is directly involved with the production of the show, I would hope they have quality referees on the show, but apparently they don't.

The UFC has nothing to do with referees or judges. They're employed by the states athletic commission. UFC has no input into them at all

 

[Headhunter]

I think it's the matches that get boring to watch. Striking is interesting. Grappling that's actually moving is interesting, like when wrestling or BJJ is being applied.

But when you run into a situation where one person is on top and in control, but doesn't move to advance their position toward a submission, or where someone just ends up pinned against the fence for several minutes with no progress towards a KO or a takedown or submission, it gets boring real fast.

It would be like if two boxers just stood there.

With that in mind as one of the major problems being addressed, I don't see how making submissions LESS valuable, in that they are no longer a guaranteed win, would promote more aggressiveness in timid grapplers.

I also don't feel it's in the spirit of MMA. The goal of MMA is not to have the most points, it's to be the winner of the fight. The winner is the person who KO'd or submitted his opponent. The reason these are the victory conditions are because if you continued to apply pressure after your opponent taps, you would choke them out or else severely injure them, to the point they would be much less effective if they tried to continue to fight. MMA is "I can take any fighter with any style, and defeat them", and defeat is shown by the inability to continue the fight.

I do agree it is a problem with a lot of fights, that they become a matter of one person being pinned and unable to escape, but the other person being unable to advance their position. I've seen some rounds where there's a takedown twenty seconds in, and the entire rest of the round is just one person holding the other in place and throwing an awkward punch or two every twenty seconds or so.

I'd say a better solution would be to give the referees the ability to call "no progress" (just like in Foosball when the ball is stuck between two bars) and stand the players up, but I've also seen fights where there was like a half second of inaction and the ref stood them up.

If you have a problem with grappling go watch boxing. Also that spirit of mma nonsense is ridiculous there's no spirit of mma....mma is a sport where the athletes are looking to win to progress their career and make money. If their best bet to do that is take you down and hold you down then that's what he should do he shouldn't stand and brawl to entertain a few drunks who can't understand the sport. If a guy doesn't want to be out wrestled it's job to stop the takedown or get off the bottom.

 

[Tez3]

The UFC has nothing to do with referees or judges. They're employed by the states athletic commission. UFC has no input into them at all

Only when they are in the US.
If the refs and officials aren't up to standard which many aren't then the UFC needs to start negotiations along with other promotions to ensure the training of these people is done properly. You cannot have the safety of fighters left in the hands on incompetents.

 

[Steve]

Only when they are in the US.
If the refs and officials aren't up to standard which many aren't then the UFC needs to start negotiations along with other promotions to ensure the training of these people is done properly. You cannot have the safety of fighters left in the hands on incompetents.

Oh brother. Are you seriously suggesting that American referees are sub par? Give me a lovely break.

 

[Tez3]

Oh brother. Are you seriously suggesting that American referees are sub par? Give me a lovely break.

Ok I'm actually going to answer this because frankly you are off on your paranoid tripping again. then you are going straight back on ignore because this is fecking pathetic.

Get a bloody grip man, it's time you got over whatever it is you think I've done to mortally offend you.

NO, I'M NOT SUGGESTING AMERICAN REFEREES ARE SUB PAR, I'M SUGGESTING THAT SOME REFEREES ON UFC SHOWS ARE, WHEREVER THEY COME FROM. IF THE UFC WANTS GOOD REFS THEN THEY HAVE TO DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT. IN COUNTRIES OUTSIDE THE US THEY HAVE THE POWER TO DO THIS. IF YOU ARE TELLING ME EVERY SINGLE REF IN THE UFC IS BRILLIANT THEN I'D AND OTHER PEOPLE WILL CALL YOU A LIAR.

 

[Tez3]

The UFC has nothing to do with referees or judges. They're employed by the states athletic commission. UFC has no input into them at all

I came across this when looking for something else.
Joe Rogan is Wrong: UFC Responsible for Many MMA Judging Problems

 

[Steve]

Ok I'm actually going to answer this because frankly you are off on your paranoid tripping again. then you are going straight back on ignore because this is fecking pathetic.

Get a bloody grip man, it's time you got over whatever it is you think I've done to mortally offend you.

NO, I'M NOT SUGGESTING AMERICAN REFEREES ARE SUB PAR, I'M SUGGESTING THAT SOME REFEREES ON UFC SHOWS ARE, WHEREVER THEY COME FROM. IF THE UFC WANTS GOOD REFS THEN THEY HAVE TO DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT. IN COUNTRIES OUTSIDE THE US THEY HAVE THE POWER TO DO THIS. IF YOU ARE TELLING ME EVERY SINGLE REF IN THE UFC IS BRILLIANT THEN I'D AND OTHER PEOPLE WILL CALL YOU A LIAR.

Okay. Come on. Most of the time, I enjoy your posts and agree with you. I’m not sure why you think I’m out to get you, even if I do sometimes disagree with you.

In this post, If I misunderstood you, I apologize. It truly appeared that you were suggesting that American refs are sub par compared to the refs in your promotion. My bad.

You have created a caricature of me that’s at times funny and at other times very disheartening. I’ve apologized many times publicly and privately. But whenever I disagree with you, you go ballistic, and then allege to put me back on ignore, even though I disagree with you like once every six months.

I’d like to bury the hatchet with you, recognizing that we can disagree without it being part of a vendetta on either side. I don’t take it personally when you disagree with me, and I would ask you to do the same.

 

[Steve]

I came across this when looking for something else.
Joe Rogan is Wrong: UFC Responsible for Many MMA Judging Problems

It's not clear to me whether you're willing to have an actual discussion or not. But in case you are, could you share some more on this? Reading the article, it's not clear to me how this relates to the discussion. What do you think is interesting about this article?

And getting back to the topic at hand, while you might not be slagging on the USA, you do seem to be critical of the UFC. Reffing is a tough job, and even very competent refs make mistakes at times. If you think many of the referees in the UFC are not up to snuff, can you give a few examples? And if you think they are not well trained, can you please share some more information about that? Do you have some concerns about how refs are trained? How should refs be trained?