Traditional Training Styles - importance of non-compliant training

[Instructor]

In our Hapkido we spend time doing same side wrist grabs then cross side and on and on till we've essentially been grabbed from every possible direction and vector. We realize that getting grabbed in this manner is generally not what happens in combat, rather it's simply a place to begin to develop certain joint manipulations from various different directions. The goal being able to apply all basic locks from any given direction.

Non compliance is simply the uke not making it easy for you. It's basically resistence training.

Randomization comes not from our grabbing drills but light to medium contact sparring which generally is a combination of striking and grappling.

 

[Chris from CT]

You are welcome to come to Chicago anytime you wish do try some training with us, you would be more than welcome!! Although I do have a few emerging clubs scattered across the US, one in Davenport IA, New Orleans, Philly, a training group of mine in Connecticut, and a few others....

Where is your training group in Connecticut? I didn't know you had someone in my neck of the woods. I would love to get together with them.

Talk to you soon.
Chris

 

[wingchun100]

Absolutely. I'm so sick of all the videos out there by "experts" who have partners that cooperate with them. I mean, okay yes cooperate at first so the technique can be demonstrated...but after that, be difficult!

 

[oftheherd1]

Absolutely. I'm so sick of all the videos out there by "experts" who have partners that cooperate with them. I mean, okay yes cooperate at first so the technique can be demonstrated...but after that, be difficult!

I think you might find that the problem is that with Hapkido, and I would assume other grappling arts as well, if you don't know where to go and get there quickly, something is likely to be broken or dislocated. If you continue to break or dislocate training partners appendages, you will rapidly thin down the ranks of those willing to be training partners. And there is the point that a training partner needs to have an idea how to react to a technique as a defense for him as well.

 

[wingchun100]

I think you might find that the problem is that with Hapkido, and I would assume other grappling arts as well, if you don't know where to go and get there quickly, something is likely to be broken or dislocated. If you continue to break or dislocate training partners appendages, you will rapidly thin down the ranks of those willing to be training partners. And there is the point that a training partner needs to have an idea how to react to a technique as a defense for him as well.

Maybe so but if you are trying to make a video to show how effective your art is, you won't get there with cooperative partners.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

The words of "non-compliant opponent" can be mis-leading.

If your opponent always runs away from you (non-compliant), even if you are Muhammad Ali, you can not hit him. A running away opponent will not be able to help you to develop any MA skill.

 

[K-man]

Maybe so but if you are trying to make a video to show how effective your art is, you won't get there with cooperative partners.

So to make a video showing how effective your MA is you need to go out and pick a fight? If your art is any good it will be a very short video.

 

[K-man]

The words of "non-compliant opponent" can be mis-leading.

If your opponent always runs away from you (non-compliant), even if you are Muhammad Ali, you can not hit him. A running away opponent will not be able to help you to develop any MA skill.

Unless your style is for sport I would suggest what you have here is the optimal outcome.
:asian:

 

[DennisBreene]

The words of "non-compliant opponent" can be mis-leading.

If your opponent always runs away from you (non-compliant), even if you are Muhammad Ali, you can not hit him. A running away opponent will not be able to help you to develop any MA skill.

In training, there is some validity to this argument. Not so much in running away, but in not being forceful at all. As in a weak grab that breaks or is released well before the student has a chance to practice the full technique. If the uke does not understand what is required in the technique he or she may not provide any resistance. This is every bit as destructive to training the technique as too much resistance may be initially. Once the basic technique is being done with skill then adding elements of resistance and counter techniques is helpful as Tony described. We accomplish this with various flow drills where I train. For instance going from an arm bar, to an arm bar counter, to the counter to that technique. Partner training requires skills in the technique and cooperation for mutual training and safety. Like most of what we train in martial arts, the theoretical destruction can't be practiced to the full extension of the technique. Unless we revert to feudal customs, no one has the opportunity to just grab a random victim and try a technique on them to see how well it works. The effort, and the argument, is continually about how to simulate reality at a reasonable level. I appreciate some of the suggestions made here that may assist in improving my techniques.

 

[Raymond]

This an older thread, but just my thoughts. Fully compliant training is good for the beginner, white/yellow belt (or whatever your dojang uses for lower grades). When learning techniques for the first time, you must train with a compliant partner in order to present a controlled environment for you to feel and understand the movements and mechanics. It is also important for the compliant partner at beginner levels so that they can feel and understand where pain, off balancing, control and so on are at each point of a movement or technique.

As you advance through the gup ranks, then resistance from the partner should be employed gradually up the ranks. NEW techniques at each rank can be practiced with compliance, but older, lower rank techniques can begin having resistance (in a safe manner as to not cause injury unnecessarily). So that by 1st dan and up you can perform beginning gup rank techniques on fully resisting opponent's and able to flow or change from technique to technique based on the resistance (can I not get an armbar, then can I get the shoulder lock? If I can't get the shoulder lock, can I flow into the wrist lock etc).