"Traditional Taekwondo"

[Marginal]

That's not an especially accurate history.

 

[CuongNhuka]

That's not an especially accurate history.

talkin to me?

Sweet Brighit bless your blade

John

 

[kenpochad]

I could be wrong but i tuoght that korean military trained in mudokwan .

 

[ave_turuta]

o.k. i'm probly going to tick off every taekwondoka here, but sae la vie (french for that's life).taekwondo was orginally made by general choi of the south korean army as the disarmed form of combat (a heavly modified version is taught for much the same reason to the armys of most countrys including the u.s.). General Choi was acctuly born in the north, but fled to the south, being himself democratic. when japan took over korea in WWII the japanese goverment out lawed native martial arts, driving most of them to the break of extensoin, and completly destroying tae kwon according to legend. as a way to 'japanese' the koreans, the japanese goverment forced many people to learn japanese martial arts, namely Shotokan Karate-do. when the japanese were forced to leave korea they the karate they had forced the koreans to learn. then when korea split into north and south the southern general used Shotokan as a basis for a knew style. and to give it lagitimicy to his country men he saide it was derived from tae kwon, which he saide the japanese had destroyed. this was not true, in fact tae kwon is still in fact taught, but very few taekwondoka would ever knew. why? since tea kwon is really only taught in north korea. taekwondo became a very well know stlyeand many people began to slack off on their training and taught what they often refered to as "inproved taekwondo". know then what is really traditional teakwondo? well, outside south korea (since it is a crime in at least south korea to teach taekwondo in the north), nothing really. in south korea, taekwondo. they don't really have the so called improved, or combat style. so why do i say that alot people will get ticked off for saying this? well for any none taekwondoka, most taekwondoka get ticked off if you argue with the lineage of either themselves to general choi, or their stlye to tae kwon. that is why (forgot this part) taekwondo in korea looks differnit, and you also donn't see alot of korean taekwondoka in the oylimpics, since when they spar it's full contact. in fact you don't score a point unless the force of your kick knocks your opponent back 4 inches, or on their butt, i beleive. know the contact is full and you have to move your opponent back so far, i'm just not shure how far.

sweet Brighit bless your blade

John

I am, after reading this, literally speechless.

 

[CuongNhuka]

kempochad, i didn't know that. this is just what i understand. i've heard this from books, t.v. shows, and taekwondoka. granted one is a 5th dan and the other i don't think made it to black belt and hasn't trained in like 15 years, but hay i don't do taekwondo, so i'm not the best person to hear this from. and aveturuta is that a good thing or a bad thing.

Sweet Brighit bless your blade

John

 

[KenpoTex]

in South korea if you teach taekwon do to some one from North Korea it is considered treason. taekwon do was devopled as a, for lack of a better phrase, secert method to use if norht korea decided to try and attack. which is also why north korea has alot of tae kwon schools, to deal with that little unpleasintry.

Uh Yeah....never mind.

 

[Kenpojujitsu3]

The TKD I learned was also termed "traditional" it was conditioning heavy (especially legs and abs). And it was about 60% hands and 40% feet. I look at "Olympic TKD" and respect and marvel at what they do but also think "wow what I learned looks nothing like that." My advise, just go to a few classes and if you like what you see sign up. Don't make it obvious to the instructor what your looking for. I have seen instructors "change the lesson plan" to reflect what someone is looking for that day just to get them to sign a contract. Then when the person actually signs up they wonder when they'll see that kind of training again.

 

[searcher]

The TKD I learned was also termed "traditional" it was conditioning heavy (especially legs and abs). And it was about 60% hands and 40% feet. I look at "Olympic TKD" and respect and marvel at what they do but also think "wow what I learned looks nothing like that." My advise, just go to a few classes and if you like what you see sign up. Don't make it obvious to the instructor what your looking for. I have seen instructors "change the lesson plan" to reflect what someone is looking for that day just to get them to sign a contract. Then when the person actually signs up they wonder when they'll see that kind of training again.

Great advice!!

 

[Brad Dunne]

Dear Brad:

Where do you get your facts from? (From JanneM)

This is one of the many history links that are available. Dates and old discipline names aside, they all list several arts that have a hand in building TKD. Many people only have been introduced to the sport aspect of TKD and that was not the original intent of those old masters that first came together. You will see that many of the kwans came into being in the late 40's and early 50's. The Kukkiwon and the WTF didn't come into being until the 70's. In conjunction with the history links, my first Korean instructor offered information on what he was taught. At the time he was in his late 60's and this was in the mid 80's. He taught and specified the disciplines that he was taught, which included Hapkido, Judo, Aikido and the given Japanese Karate.
Granted, I am taking someone at their word, but I could not see any rational for this person to not be stating true facts. There was nothing to be gained from offering this information. As I stated prior, every history site that I have investigated all have several disciplines as a foundational status for the birth of TKD.

http://www.msu.edu/user/spock/history.html

 

[OC Kid]

Not to make waves or anything, but TKD is not 2000 years old. It is actually less than 100 years old. You might be referring to Tae Kyon, which was added to Shotokan Karate by General Choi to create TKD.

You beat me to it. Traditional TKD before unification in the 1960's looked just like shotokan . the forms were very simular as well. In fact our own Dan Anderson who post here was orginally trained in a trad korean karate before the unification. he can elaborte more if he wishes to.

 

[Marginal]

Drift happened quickly though. Dan's sparring book mentions that the style he studied was taken down a chinese influenced path not too long afterwards.

 

[bluemtn]

Here is what I found from the internet, following links on my schools web site, and my school considers itself as "traditional" (no, I'm not promoting the school or what not, it's just what I've found):



Origins of Korean Karate or Tae Kwon Do


The first formalized martial arts school in Korea was founded in 1944 in Seoul, by a man named Lee, Won Kook. Master Lee founded not only the first, but also the largest and most influential martial arts school in Korea. Born in Korea on April 18, 1907, Lee moved to Japan in 1926 at the age of nineteen. Lee was then trained in "Shotokan" karate with the founder and legendary teacher, the great Grandmaster Gichen Funakoshi.


New Martial Arts Academy

Lee came back to Korea in 1944, just before the end of World War II. He felt that training in Karate-do, "the empty hand," would benefit the Korean people. Korea was still under Japanese occupation. In order for Master Lee to obtain permission to start a martial arts school in Korea, he had to make an application to the Japanese government. The application was rejected twice, but Lee received permission on his third try. Master Lee began teaching Tang Soo Do ("Empty Hand") in Seoul. In Japan, Grandmaster Funakoshi had changed the letter representing the name of his school from "Chinese Hand Art" to "the Empty Hand." By changing the name, Funakoshi was able to make his introduction of the martial art more palatable to the Japanese. To decide the name of his new school, Lee used the Korean custom of changing the first name of a child, but keeping the rest of the name the same as the parents. Sung Do Kwan ("Shotokan") became Chung Do Kwan, the name of Master Lee’s new martial arts school. The full name of the academy was "Tang Soo Do, Chung Do Kwan" School. After Korea’s independence on August 15, 1945, other martial arts schools (called "kwans") were opened in addition to Master Lee’s Chung Do Kwan School.

​

Who Kept the Academy Alive?

On June 25, 1950, war broke out in Korea. Master Lee was forced to flee back to Japan. Son, Duk Sung as the senior student, was appointed headmaster becoming the second leader of the Tang Soo Do, Chung Do Kwan School. In 1955, an effort was made by the various kwans to create some sort of unity in the Korean martial arts. Master Son and General Choi of the Korean Military, were on the panel that decided upon the name "Tae Kwon Do" (which means "foot and hand" fighting), for the marital art of Korea. At that 1955 conference, Master Son was the highest-ranking Korean karate practitioner and teacher. Master Son awarded General Choi an honorary 4th degree black belt. Another noteworthy student who trained and received his Black Belt under Master Son was Jhoon Rhee. Jhoon Rhee left Korea in the early 1960s to come to the United States, where he is known as the "Father of Tae Kwon Do."​

Tae Kwon Do Gets Organized

When the Korean military government took over in 1961, a wave of Korean pride and nationalistic fervor gripped the country. Many areas of life, including the martial arts, cut off the old ties to other countries. A cultural movement to become more "purely Korean" had an impact on the martial arts. Many Korean karate masters had a problem with the government mandates placed on Tae Kwon Do training. In response, the government formed the Korean Tae Kwon Do Association (K.T.A.) with General Choi in charge. In 1962, the Korean Government only recognized the rank of those in the K.T.A. During the 1960s, many Korean karate masters left to form Tae Kwon Do organizations outside of Korea. In 1963, Master Son came to the United States, united with several of the Tae Kwon Do instructors to form the "World Tae Kwon Do Association," (W.T.A.) to be an alternative to the Korean Tae Kwon Do Association (K.T.A.)

​

Tae Kwon Do Becomes an Olympic Sport

A new organization was set up in Korea in the early 1970s with the goal of making Tae Kwon Do a new Olympic sport. New forms were devised, using the Korean flag as a pattern for the movements. Additionally, gymnastics were included in the new training methods. In 1973, the organization became a new unified Korean Tae Kwon Do organization called the "World Tae Kwon Do Federation," (W.T.F.). Today, the W.T.F. is the largest Tae Kwon Do school in the world. The W.T.F. considers modern Tae Kwon Do a "SPORT," with the emphasis on "competition," as opposed to classical Tae Kwon Do, which is an "ART" which places its emphasis on "self-defense."

Modern Tae Kwon Do bears little resemblance to classical Korean karate. But luckily for those who wish to study classical Tae Kwon Do, our school, "South Central Tae Kwon Do Association," offers us the opportunity to train in the traditional Korean martial art. Our school’s roots can be followed back to the first Tang Soo Do, Chung Do Kwan school, with its transition from Korean karate to Tae Kwon Do. This evolution can be traced through our headmasters:

​

[size=+1]The Honorable Grandmaster Funakoshi[/size]
(founder and legendary teacher of Japanese Shotokan)

[size=+1]Grandmaster Lee[/size]
(studied under Funakoshi and
was the founder of the first formalized Korean karate school,
"Tang Soo Do, Chung Do Kwan.")

[size=+1]Grandmaster Son[/size]
(studied under Lee and
became the second headmaster of the Chung Do Kwan School.
Son was directly responsible for Korean karate
being officially named, "Tae Kwon Do.")

 

[shesulsa]

tkdgirl, if that information came from one or more websites with copyrighted information, you need to cite your source(s) according to copyright law and MT policy, please.

 

[JAMJTX]

Traditional TKD would be as it was originally taught by General Choi, the founder.

It is doubtful that Korean martial arts have been around for thousands of years. Evidence does not support that idea.

General Choi lived in Japan for 30 years, returning to Korea after WWII. While there he studied Japanese Karate, primarily Shotokan. When TKD was first developed, all of the forms taught were Japanese/Okinawan.

The original form of TKD was taught in the military and is effective self defense.

Jim Mc Coy

 

[terryl965]

Traditional TKD would be as it was originally taught by General Choi, the founder.

It is doubtful that Korean martial arts have been around for thousands of years. Evidence does not support that idea.

General Choi lived in Japan for 30 years, returning to Korea after WWII. While there he studied Japanese Karate, primarily Shotokan. When TKD was first developed, all of the forms taught were Japanese/Okinawan.

The original form of TKD was taught in the military and is effective self defense.

Jim Mc Coy

where do you get general choi is the founding father of tkd, you mean modern day tkd don't you. TKD has been around since 37bc and there is enough evidence to support thoughs thereys. Why does everbody put choi as the founding father of tkd, and by the way he trained in Okinawa more than japan. Okinawa is there own country not part of Japan.

 

[Marginal]

Shotokan was not practiced in Korea in 37BC.

 

[CuongNhuka]

ahhh Terry, I don't know how to tell you this, but Okinaowa is owned by Japan, and Tae Kwon Do was made prodimitly by General Choi. Korean Martial Arts have been around by for thousands of years, but Tae Kwon Do isn't one of them.

Sweet Brighit Bless your Blade,

John

 

[Marginal]

ahhh Terry, I don't know how to tell you this, but Okinaowa is owned by Japan, and Tae Kwon Do was made prodimitly by General Choi. Korean Martial Arts have been around by for thousands of years, but Tae Kwon Do isn't one of them.

You hush. You haven't demonstrated any knowledge of TKD whatsoever with your past contributions, and you have no business talking like you're an expert on the subject.

 

[MJS]

Mod. Note.
Please, keep the conversation polite and respectful.

-MJS
-MT Moderator-

 

[Miles]

As far as "traditional," how does one define the word? One could come up with several definitions:

--An art that is practiced as it was, essentially, years before with little change or modification from the spirit of the art

--An art that practices certain traditions of respect, courtesy, etc.

--An art that combines both of the above.

--The art that is considered the most popular and widely practiced, and assumes the mantle of "traditional" even though it has evolved over time into something that vaguely resembles what it was decades before.

I too am stuck at the onset with how one defines "traditional."

If asked to choose, I would say Taekwondo would be traditional under Steve's definition #2. The art itself hopefully is evolving to meet the needs of contemporary society. The traditions of respect for yourself, your dojang, and other Taekwondoin/Mudoin should not change. The tradition of showing courtesy to others both within and without the dojang does not change.

Miles