A gun in the handbag works as well as a brick for blunt trauma, as well as providing other options.
Toshindo vs the grappler
- Thread starter wiz cool c
- Start date
A gun in the handbag works as well as a brick for blunt trauma, as well as providing other options.
OP
OP
wiz cool c
Orange Belt
thanks for the answer tony. i myself have done various arts for 30 years. i dont think i would have a 60 year old women with back problems rolling around though,just my opinion
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tez i dont know if you are a women or man or how old you are or anything, but as i mentioned before ,Bujinkan also includes aspects outside of physical attacks, and the techniques have and are used by law enforcement. I also already mentioned I had a Bujinkan instructor that works at one of the worst prisons in the US and told me he uses his skills daily. At the old Bujinkan dojo we also had policemen and body guards that also used their skills in the real world, and these skills weren’t exactly created under peaceful conditions either.
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tez i dont know if you are a women or man or how old you are or anything, but as i mentioned before ,Bujinkan also includes aspects outside of physical attacks, and the techniques have and are used by law enforcement. I also already mentioned I had a Bujinkan instructor that works at one of the worst prisons in the US and told me he uses his skills daily. At the old Bujinkan dojo we also had policemen and body guards that also used their skills in the real world, and these skills weren’t exactly created under peaceful conditions either.
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drop bear
Sr. Grandmaster
It is not what you promise. It is what you deliver.
So you can have a system that teaches old women to fight a group of big men in the dark with weapons. But it dosent mean it is actually going to work.
A 60 year old in a mma school does not fair as well as a young athletic person because they just don't fight as well generally. And it is represented by the training.
I have just told you lol. I should also tell you I've used my martial arts also in the real world ( and for longer than even you) and quite often in my job before I retired.
I'm not arguing about Bujinkan at all, my argument is that your perceptions of MMA are skewed.I wouldn't write off a 60 year old woman rolling around by the way, people are a lot fitter these days and now in the West, 60 is regarded more as being middle aged rather than old. As for the back problems, if attacked that's the last thing you would worry about so if she needed to roll she'd roll!
Tsk tsk! really it depends on the 60 year old woman doesn't it, if she's had 50 years of martial arts training and fighting then perhaps the young ones should worry. As for fighting as well...that's a matter of opinion, you learn as you get older to fight clever......and dirty.
Not sure if by "rolling around" you mean ukemi, sparring, or just ground fighting in general. I spent a lot of time in the Bujinkan "rolling around" in that first sense.
As far as ground fighting goes - an elderly woman who is physically attacked by a larger opponent has an excellent chance of being knocked down. If she wants the ability to defend herself once she's on the ground, she will have to spend time training on the ground. If she's physically unable to handle training on the ground, then being knocked down will mean she has lost the fight.
As far as sparring goes, that depends. You develop a lot of important tools from it, but your body can pay a price. At a certain point the trade-off may not be worth it for some individuals. When I teach BJJ, I use a number of live and semi-live drills that are more focused than normal sparring/randori and some of those might be more appropriate for an elderly student with physical limitations.
Sure. There are also law enforcement officers who train Karate, BJJ, Judo, and a host of other arts who swear that their art works for them in the course of their duties. It never hurts to ask them for specific examples of how they've applied their art and learn from their experience.
It does seem that you've drifted quite a bit away from the original question though. This isn't the "Is Bujinkan training great or does it suck?" thread.
drop bear
Sr. Grandmaster
Tsk tsk! really it depends on the 60 year old woman doesn't it, if she's had 50 years of martial arts training and fighting then perhaps the young ones should worry. As for fighting as well...that's a matter of opinion, you learn as you get older to fight clever......and dirty.
Perhaps. But if she dosent then she dosent. You shouldn't have to manipulate the training so she is winning all the time.
bigfootsquatch
Purple Belt
I agree with you, but most people who continually talk about "sports arts" are training against an overextended lunge punch and have never set foot in a bjj school, and we don't judge xkans because of completely unrealistic training methods and the internet warriors it produces.
AND, there are plenty of BJJ/MMA internet warriors too, so don't think I'm being biased
. I also train in both.
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What? who said anything about 'manipulating' the training? sweetheart, the 60 year old is the bloody instructor lol!
drop bear
Sr. Grandmaster
And i am sure she cleans up everybody in the room.
It worries me a bit that you miss the point of so many posts, not just mine but there you go. C'est la vie.
drop bear
Sr. Grandmaster
The point is you are awsome and all your friends are awsome. I agree with you. They do seem awsome.
Now we have got that out of the way. Back on to the subject.
drop bear
Sr. Grandmaster
Technique over age
Are we comparing like for like here? Or are we comparing somone with the advantage of ten plus years training.
Look if it will preserve some egos lets just say a 60 year old will progress in martial arts as fast as a 20 year old.
Does everybody feel warm and fuzzy now?
OP
OP
wiz cool c
Orange Belt
in my 30 year of martial arts, I have done both traditional styles like, tang soo do,bujinkan,shaolin kung fu[which I still do],bagua zhang and Tai Chi. Also sport systems like judo, bjj,sombo and tai boxing. I am more of a traditionalist to be honest, I have never been the competitive type. I am good at sparring and fighting but not good at competiting. It just goes against who I am, I don’t feel the need to go out and win., I have always been a defense fighter and that works for me. I have nothing against grappling or MMA, one of my best friends and coaches here in china is a pro fighter Yao Honggang, his little brother is fighting in korea in the UFC in a week or two I think.
For me I don’t like people telling me only MMA and grappling is useful for a real fight,why? Cause it is not true. How do I know it is not true? Cause I have used many traditional techniques in real fights that grapplers/mma guys on the internet would swear don’t work. These techniques do work and work well, but again fights on the street have many variables that competitions don’t. That is not to say a MMA guy or grappler competitor cant fight on the street. but for someone not competing, maybe older less fit, have injuries or disabilities these sportive methods may not be the best alternative. These days sports guys have the blinders on and think the whole world wants to be the next UFC champ and is under 30 and a super badass, its childish really..
For me I don’t like people telling me only MMA and grappling is useful for a real fight,why? Cause it is not true. How do I know it is not true? Cause I have used many traditional techniques in real fights that grapplers/mma guys on the internet would swear don’t work. These techniques do work and work well, but again fights on the street have many variables that competitions don’t. That is not to say a MMA guy or grappler competitor cant fight on the street. but for someone not competing, maybe older less fit, have injuries or disabilities these sportive methods may not be the best alternative. These days sports guys have the blinders on and think the whole world wants to be the next UFC champ and is under 30 and a super badass, its childish really..
OP
OP
wiz cool c
Orange Belt
if we are to say talking techniques to teach a 60 year old women with back problems self defense form bujinkan system. Can start with teaching her how to use common object as weapons, in bujinkan or ninjutsu there are 5 categories of weapons, flexible, blunt, projectile, bladed and combination. So basically anything can be used as a weapon. Next there are some nice nasty clawing ,striking pinching poking methods to defend against grabs and hold, which can cause enough pain to allow time to [escape] yes escape is the key here. I would incorporate a basic break fall, that could actually work double as a back exercise and a break fall, and possible some simple escapes from the ground to get back to your feet to run away.
Also could talk about and train how to listen to your gut feeling and prepare ahead of time. For example the second you feel something is not right ,you can take out say a pen and hold it in your hand, maybe before you enter the building, or when walking alone at night on the street, or if some guy is acting crazy on the bus.
People here keep mentioning grappling and MMA, but are ignoring the points that I stated many situation that grappling would not work [on the street]. before I mentioned a time when I was in a leg cast and had a jealous guy stalking me. Anyone here like grappling with a cast on after reconstructive knee surgery? But I had a cane with me at all times and am familiar with using a cane as a weapon through a self defense art like bujinkan. I also used evasive tactics to travel around in as low key and unseen way as possible being a foreigner in a cast with a cane. these are also psychological techniques that are taught in systems like ninjutsu, not for sport but for self protection.
Also could talk about and train how to listen to your gut feeling and prepare ahead of time. For example the second you feel something is not right ,you can take out say a pen and hold it in your hand, maybe before you enter the building, or when walking alone at night on the street, or if some guy is acting crazy on the bus.
People here keep mentioning grappling and MMA, but are ignoring the points that I stated many situation that grappling would not work [on the street]. before I mentioned a time when I was in a leg cast and had a jealous guy stalking me. Anyone here like grappling with a cast on after reconstructive knee surgery? But I had a cane with me at all times and am familiar with using a cane as a weapon through a self defense art like bujinkan. I also used evasive tactics to travel around in as low key and unseen way as possible being a foreigner in a cast with a cane. these are also psychological techniques that are taught in systems like ninjutsu, not for sport but for self protection.
99.999999999999999% of people don't have the skill set of Relson Gracie. I really agree with you as age/physique/sex/etc really are important. I linked the video because I think it's funny to watch.
What a strange post. You really go way off on a tangent sometimes, in fact so far off it's incomprehensible.
