I mention my own experience cause I have done sport grappling and have a BB in Bujinkan the main source of toshindo. This give me experience in both worlds, therefore I can talk from my own experience and not follow the popular trends like a mindless robot.
It's good to have different perspectives to work from. I have black belts in both Bujinkan Taijutsu and BJJ and I apply the experiences with one to my understanding of the other.
I already mentioned one good example, I had three bigger guys surrounding me and broke a bottle and used evasive footwork, and they eventually left. I suppose I should have clinched one of them worked some knees ,gone for the take down, done a little ground and pound then went for the submission right? That is what MMA would have done, or minus the ground and pound and do the take down and work the submission.
Well, not exactly. That's what a MMA fighter who didn't understand the situation he was in might have done. A
smart MMA fighter would apply his skillset in a more appropriate manner for the context.
I teach BJJ, not MMA, but I do my best to make sure my students understand how to apply their techniques in a way that fits the situation - whether that's a street assault, a tournament match, or restraining a drunken friend.
In reply to Tony Dismukes. i think with Steven Hayes and his teaching defense against a guard is to make his students somewhat familiar with present day threats. also being that BJJ and MMA was created by the original challenge matches of the gracies I guess, if you are running a school there is a possibility of being challenged even assaulted by a grappler. The old ninja way of being prepared for everything idea. .
If so, he didn't do his homework.
First step for handling the challenge match is to just not accept the challenge.
If you are assaulted by a sport grappler, he's unlikely to pull guard on you. That's not what the guard is for.
Finally, if you were to be assaulted by a vaguely competent sport grappler and somehow ended up in his guard, the technique Steve is showing will not work and will put you in a much worse position.
You said it has been proven over and over again then mention competition matches that took place between different styles. Again [competition matches]. In order for a toshindo or bujinkan practitioner to use their techniques which incorporate extremely dirty fighting techniques they would have to be literally attacked by a grappler in an unfriendly environment, which would put them in a situation where they would use any tactic to escape.
Yeah, this is where these discussions tend to break down. There
are important differences between the best mindset and tactics for sport competition and those appropriate for self-defense. The whole "dirty fighting" thing is not that important. Not only can a "sport" fighter use "dirty" techniques, he or she can use them more effectively than someone without that background. I can eye-gouge you from the top of mount a whole lot more effectively than you can eye-gouge me from the bottom of mount.
Leaving aside the 95% of self-defense that precedes any actual fight (awareness, avoidance, threat hardening, de-escalation, etc), I think the biggest differences between sport and street come down to
1) Street awareness needs to be more diffuse - monitoring the surroundings is just as important as focusing on the opponent in front of you.
2) Dis-engagement and escape is usually a preferable "victory condition" in the street. "Defeating" your opponent is not necessarily a requirement for winning. This changes your go-to techniques.
"Sport" fighters such as boxers, MMA fighters, etc, do have highly effective tools in their skillset to help with dis-engagement and escape when that is needed. the trick is switching the mindset as needed.
the difference is the people training for competitions are what usually under 30 young fit and athletic. For these people they work well, but are not necessarily the best tactic for self defense as mentioned before.
Tez3I have no doubt a young fit grappler or MMA competitor could defend himself, but does that mean those techniques would be the best choice for a 100 pound 5 foot 2 female being attacked by a rapist in the hallway of her building.
Actually, the best "sport" technique is not highly dependent on athletic attributes. Athleticism is always
useful, both in sport and "street" situations. It's necessary in competition when your opponent has all the same technique that you do. However, the best technique generates the maximum benefit possible from whatever attributes you have. I'm 51 years old and I was never particularly strong or athletic. I regularly submit guys who are half my age and much stronger than I am.
As far as a 100 pound woman defending herself against a much larger attacker - weapons are indeed an excellent equalizer. However even when you get to weapons the debate comes up about how "sportive" is optimal for weapons training.