SKH's books vs Toshindo

[lalom]

Having experience in the learning of Ninjutsu in both place I can definitely say that the two shares both similarities and distinction. Before I begin to say anything further please note that my experience is based on the instructor I have encounter and that each instructor are distinct in their knowledge and approach.


Toshindo is a modern application of primarily togakure and gyokko ryu since that is what master Hayes originally receive the license to teach in the 80's. It has now developed much further and I have no idea what else is thrown in there to make it work better for more people. The art is a growing art, constantly changing for the ever-evolving United State. Depending on the instructor, but primarily the student, the teacher will lend you the insight of ninpo; the philosohical aspect of ninja and how to use the way of shinobi to take control of your life and, depending on your level of skill, others.

BBT is a traditional approach to teach you the 9 ryu of ninjutsu Grandmaster Hatsumi inheritted. In BBT the greatest is technique is there is no technique. They they you formlessly, quickly changing from one kata to another to allow students to explore all the variation each technique has to offer. You are expect to perservere and learn what is there to offer by doing your own training. Students who expect the teacher to give you the answer will not find one. Only from here will the student learn the ninpo aspect by themselve.

Having been in both art, I personally do not believe that the two system will get you at the same destination simply because these are two methods of teaching. The method of movement, how the instructor help guide to enlightment, even the way each technique is carry out and executed, are very distinct in nature. Toshindo deals more with wide swing and people trying to club you while BBT deals with launch punch and how to deal with swords. One is totally elemental based (in toshindo you start from Earth, water, fire, wind and finally void) while the other emphasis on flowing without form, started out at void and try to understand other elements from there.

What will get you there will depends upon you; and with the two systems having such a diverse method of exploration of the core art, same principle it may be based on, you will most likely to end up at two distinct places.


Cloud

Cloud,

Can you elaborate on your experience with both arts? Please share the time you spent in them.

 

[Zachattack]

Toshindo deals more with wide swing and people trying to club you
Cloud

Well, I don't know who you have studied under, but this has not been my experience with TSD. At the beggining level, you deal with "big attacks" but it gets much more subtle and realistic as you go along. Also, we do a lot of weapons training, primarily dealing with knives and ham-bo at lower levels, followed by kusari, and eventually polearm and sword.
I will say, however, that every TSD certified instructor is encouraged to create their own method of teaching. My teacher, sensei Poliquins approach and the way he fights is much different than the way An-shu Hayes teaches and fights. Since sensei Poliquin spent a lot of active time under Hatsumi, as he is somewhat high ranked in BBJ (I do not remember his exact rank, but it is around third dan) the approach of BBJ my have changed his personal method of teaching TSD. Who was your TSD instructor?

 

[Zachattack]

BTW, Cloud, I'm not being critical of a quick generalization. I'm mostly curious about who you studied under.
I too think it is a very good idea to study both TSD and BBJ. The seeming division between the two schools now is rather disturbing, with a lot of people saying a lot of different things.

 

[bydand]

My teacher, sensei Poliquins approach and the way he fights is much different than the way An-shu Hayes teaches and fights. Since sensei Poliquin spent a lot of active time under Hatsumi, as he is somewhat high ranked in BBJ (I do not remember his exact rank, but it is around third dan) the approach of BBJ my have changed his personal method of teaching TSD. Who was your TSD instructor?

If I remember right ,John was somewhere around 4th or 5th Dan in the Bujinkan when they swapped over to Toshindo. I could be off, but don't think so. And John is a very unique instructor from what I have seen, I went to Dayton just before the switch and had a class with Mr. Hayes and his wife, TOTALLY different than Mr. Poliquin and Mr. Varnum's teaching methods at that time.

 

[Cryozombie]

primarily dealing with knives and ham-bo

Is that a 6 foot pork-sword?

Sorry, I had to.

 

[ToShinDoKa]

Who is this newbie? Already banned after one post?

LOL,

I'm sorry for waking up this old post, but this is by far the funniest thing I've read yet.

Oh God, and the one right above me...LOL...it's beautiful!