There WILL be death panels.

[Twin Fist]

yes they do hound you for it..my brother had a hernia surgery 9 months ago, and they call him everyday, since he can't make the payments.

Horse *****

I went to the ER a few years back while i was unemployed. Nothing major, but the bill was several thousand dollars.

never got a single call. Not even any nastygrams.

my mother has been in ICU multiple times, and she is never turned away, and our phone never rings.....


and i dont know, maybe for a friggin OPERATION HE SHOULD FRIGGIN PAY FOR IT

 

[Scott T]

you are out of your depth Scott.

http://www.thecomingdepression.net/...ealthcare-bankrupt-warning-to-usas-obamacare/

I've read this. It's an editorial, High on opinion but low on proof.

And where I disagree with the author the most is his saying healthcare isn't a right. It is a right, not a privledge.

Will healthcare be a problem? With an aging population and a growing native population, the answer is a definite yes.

But it's nowhere near bankrupt now, as you are claiming.

 

[Twin Fist]

i disagree that healthcare is a right

that smacks of lazy entitlement to my mind.

and it isnt feasable, the demand is infinite, but the supply isnt, and when doctors make as much as janitors, you get doctors that are as smart as janitors......the best and brightest go where there is the most reward

 

[Tez3]

i disagree that healthcare is a right

that smacks of lazy entitlement to my mind.

and it isnt feasable, the demand is infinite, but the supply isnt, and when doctors make as much as janitors, you get doctors that are as smart as janitors......the best and brightest go where there is the most reward

The sign of a truly compassionate society. Survival of the fittest etc etc.
Sad really, the 'me me society, I'm alright Jack, sod you', that really is a jack way to live.

 

[Scott T]

i disagree that healthcare is a right

That's where we will eternally disagree

that smacks of lazy entitlement to my mind.

We still pay the taxes that support it, so the entitlement arguement is moot

and it isnt feasable, the demand is infinite, but the supply isnt, and when doctors make as much as janitors, you get doctors that are as smart as janitors......

Show me a janitor who makes 200k a year after taxes (and that's the rural doctors)

the best and brightest go where there is the most reward

As do those who are more concerned with their bank accounts than actual patient care

 

[Bob Hubbard]

Folks, knock off the personal shots. This is your ONLY warning.

 

[Twin Fist]

The sign of a truly compassionate society. Survival of the fittest etc etc.
Sad really, the 'me me society, I'm alright Jack, sod you', that really is a jack way to live.

you dont have to like it

and you dont have to live here.

please tell us how great the system is in england, i have already heard the horror stories from your neck of the woods...

 

[Bob Hubbard]

Total Health care is not a right. It's a luxury.
Even if it is a right, there are limits.

In the US, you have a right to free speech. Yet, you still can't yell fire in a crowded theater.
You have a right to own a gun, yet said gun isn't free and you still have other restrictions.
Etc.
You have a right to food. But not a right to filet minon.
You have a right to clean water. But not a right to drink Pepsi.
You have a right to wear clothing, but not $1,000 Brooks Bro. suits.
In the same way, you have a right to medical care. If your life is at risk, you are to be treated at any ER, regardless of income. You will receive the care. That is the law. But no one says they have to give it away for free.

Hospital visit charges include over 40% in bloat, waste, inefficiency and fraud.
They get away with it because insurance companies pay for them to use 1 tissue out of a box of 200 and charge $10 for the box, or $5 for an aspirin that costs 5c.

Insurance companies also set how much they pay doctors. The pile on the paperwork and make the doctors wait 3-6 months for payment. This is why more and more doctors are opting out of the Medicare/cade programs. Too much BS, too much hassle, and too much capping of their incomes.

 

[Twin Fist]

hmmm

looking back, i dont see anything i posted that could look like a personal attack, BUT, if anyone took anything that way, i apologize now.

wasnt trying to insult any ONE, just expressing opinions

 

[Twin Fist]

Bob,
I have seen it said that health insurance is the cause of most of the high cost of healthcare.

 

[RandomPhantom700]

You have a right to clean water. But not a right to drink Pepsi.

Not to be picky, but you actually do have a right to drink Pepsi. You just don't have the right to drink Pepsi free of charge. I believe the latter is what you're pointing out.

 

[Bob Hubbard]

Not to be picky, but you actually do have a right to drink Pepsi. You just don't have the right to drink Pepsi free of charge. I believe the latter is what you're pointing out.

Right. I also am opposed to tax subsidies for Pepsi.

 

[Bob Hubbard]

Bob,
I have seen it said that health insurance is the cause of most of the high cost of healthcare.

Don't worry. The Obama administration is on it. Costs will drop as soon as everyone is required to buy some, even though no cap was set and rates are skyrocketing now. But the requirement is optional of course.

 

[Twin Fist]

it's pepsi


bleh

 

[Tez3]

you dont have to like it

and you dont have to live here.

please tell us how great the system is in england, i have already heard the horror stories from your neck of the woods...[/quote]

Of course you have, that is what you look for first when attacking social healthcare. As no system is perfect you will find the 'horror' stories you want. However you don't see the good stories do you, of the lives saved and improved, of the good care, the dedicated medical staff and the hospitals that do the cutting edge work on things like transplant and childrens care like the John Radcliffe and Great Ormand Street which are probably two of the best hospitals in the world. You don't hear about the work of Birmingham hospital which is at the leading front of battle trauma. You prefer to seek out the 'horror' stories, the truth with them too is that as soon as they are reported steps are taken to improve and learn from the bad situations that have happened. Sometimes the bad things that happen aren't due to it being a NHS hosptial but through human error that could happen just as easily in a posh place paid for by the patient . There are as many horror stories about the private sector here, of patients having to be rushed to NHS hospitals as the private hospitals didn't have the facilities it claimed.

I've read of equally horrible stories about American healthcare, about American gangs, violence and murders.Do I think that's the whole of America, that everyone is a gun toting maniac, of course not.

Our healthcare system is under strain, it's not perfect but no one would go back to the system before the NHS when you only got medical treatment if you could afford it. The majority of people are content with the NHS as it deals with them.

Creeping into our society now however is this thing that people aren't supposed to actually die, they don't die on the television or films so why are they dying for real? It must be the medics and the hospitals fault, this means people are left in a vegetative state or in comas because people believe they will recover. the idea of a dignified death has left us, you can't simply die now with your loved ones around you in a quiet room, no it has to be shocks to start the heart, injections and trauma, just so the family feel 'something' was done.

You will find a great many complaints about the NHS are about patients dying. One of the parents at our club is complaining that the doctors won't do anything for her mother who has terminal brain cancer, she wants the tumour removed at all costs to her mother, the doctors say they can't remove it without great pain and leaving her mother paralysed and she will die at the much the same time anyway. The doctors want her to have as much quality of life as she can during her remaining time. Her daughter is blaming the NHS for it's lack of action and says she should take her to America where she thinks they will operate. thee's one of your 'horror' stories, doctors caring holistically for their patient and wanting the best for her. It isn't the money btw, my instructor's elderly mother has just been operated on for bowel cancer because the doctors believe it's in her best interest. That was last week, she collapsed at the weekend and was operated on immediately. As my instructor says on FB, thank goodness for the NHS.

 

[Twin Fist]

and we have the best of both worlds

people get emergency care when they need it and the best money can buy if they can afford it

i am happy

 

[LuckyKBoxer]

I've read this. It's an editorial, High on opinion but low on proof.

And where I disagree with the author the most is his saying healthcare isn't a right. It is a right, not a privledge.

Will healthcare be a problem? With an aging population and a growing native population, the answer is a definite yes.

But it's nowhere near bankrupt now, as you are claiming.

basic healthcare I would have no problem making a right, but advanced treatments, replacements, etc are not a right but a luxury.
over the counter health care, and things like antibiotics, etc is basic health care in my opinion... cancer treatment, organ replacement, and other forms of advanced medical care is a luxury.

 

[Scott T]

basic healthcare I would have no problem making a right, but advanced treatments, replacements, etc are not a right but a luxury.
over the counter health care, and things like antibiotics, etc is basic health care in my opinion... cancer treatment, organ replacement, and other forms of advanced medical care is a luxury.

Under those criteria, you may as well say living is a luxury. That's what rubs me the wrong way, taking away the right to life.

 

[Sensei Payne]

and we have the best of both worlds

people get emergency care when they need it and the best money can buy if they can afford it

i am happy

Did you not see what the Doctors in Tez3's post did...they sent her to America, because in America they will operate even if they think it will leave you paralyzed

That the doctors won't do anything for her mother who has terminal brain cancer, she wants the tumour removed at all costs to her mother, the doctors say they can't remove it without great pain and leaving her mother paralysed and she will die at the much the same time anyway. The doctors want her to have as much quality of life as she can during her remaining time. Her daughter is blaming the NHS for it's lack of action and says she should take her to America where she thinks they will operate. thee's one of your 'horror' stories, doctors caring holistically for their patient and wanting the best for her. It isn't the money btw, my instructor's elderly mother has just been operated on for bowel cancer because the doctors believe it's in her best interest. That was last week, she collapsed at the weekend and was operated on immediately.

To me, the NHS has it right..and they were gonna do it for free, if they actually thought it would do anything, and it wasn't just one Doctor, it was several.

 

[Twin Fist]

what is so hard about "take care of yourself and quit relying on the government"