Scott is Canadian. They don't have competing insurance companies that bribe government officials and screw poor people like we do. They just have the one that works.
There WILL be death panels.
- Thread starter Twin Fist
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Mine was botched. Horror stories floating around here somewhere. I made the mistake of picking an assembly line quack.
LuckyKBoxer
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nothing you said is an example of us having the best or the worst or anything in health care. do some of you people even understand how to interpret information?
Cost is not an indicator of the quality of health care.
positive patient outcomes is also not an indicator...
compare apples to apples and orange to oranges and then we can talk..
I think in America we have the most unhealthy eating habits by far in the world...just a guess... we have the highest obesity rates I seem to remember hearing... all kids of issues..I would have to see some pretty specific information as far as what is treated, and how, and the success rates to say you are right or wrong.
my hunch is America has some of the best quality of health care available if you have the money to pay for it, or the insurance to cover it, with the notable exceptions being few but mostly in aspects that are banned for various reasons in the united states. No proof other then a hunch, but I have never seen anything that refutes that hunch.
LuckyKBoxer
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look regardless of how corrupt or incorrupt an insurance company or all are, the fact is they still have coverage in writing. I would be the vast majority of people on this board could not tell you what their coverage includes.
I have to ask if Canadian insurance covers unlimited costs for individuals for cancer, or any other high cost treatments? I bet it doesn't.
Scott T
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LOL!
Not saying ours doesn't have a myriad of problems, but at least everybody gets care and no one has to go bankrupt to get it.
OP
Twin Fist
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http://www.lewrockwell.com/orig10/leboeuf-schouten1.html
There is a chronic shortage of doctors in Canada because price controls on doctors salaries have resulted in a "brain drain" where the best and brightest practice medicine in the U.S. and elsewhere, after being educated in Canada. In addition, the Canadian government cut medical school enrollment in half in the 1990s as a "cost-cutting measure," making the problem of doctor shortages much worse.
http://www.healthcarebs.com/2007/10/20/canadian-health-care-another-horror-story/
Mr. Bureau and his mother go to the Wakefield hospital. A doctor determines that there is a problem with Mr. Bureaus appendix. Calls are made to hospitals in Hull, Gatineau, Maniwaki, Buckingham and Ottawa to find a surgeon. A surgeon cannot be found
http://articles.cnn.com/2009-07-06/...health-care-system-mayo-clinic?_s=PM:POLITICS
Holmes is Canadian, but the "they" she refers to are doctors at the Mayo Clinic in the United States, where she turned after specialists in her own government-run health care system would not see her fast enough.
"My family doctor at that time tried to get me in to see an endocrinologist and a neurologist," Holmes recalled. "It was going to be four months for one specialist and six months for the other."
http://www.dickmorris.com/blog/a-health-care-horror-story-from-canada/
It does not seem to have occurred to defenders of socialized medicine that the system itself is causing the doctor shortage. Cuts in medical fees, overcrowding of facilities, shortages of equipment and space, and bureaucratic oversight have all combined to drive men and women out of family medical practice. Now, with a critical shortage looming, those who can afford to pay for adequate care are opting out of the public system and, literally, taking their lives into their own hands.
canadians can have canada's health care system
i dont want it, what i have is better
There is a chronic shortage of doctors in Canada because price controls on doctors salaries have resulted in a "brain drain" where the best and brightest practice medicine in the U.S. and elsewhere, after being educated in Canada. In addition, the Canadian government cut medical school enrollment in half in the 1990s as a "cost-cutting measure," making the problem of doctor shortages much worse.
http://www.healthcarebs.com/2007/10/20/canadian-health-care-another-horror-story/
Mr. Bureau and his mother go to the Wakefield hospital. A doctor determines that there is a problem with Mr. Bureaus appendix. Calls are made to hospitals in Hull, Gatineau, Maniwaki, Buckingham and Ottawa to find a surgeon. A surgeon cannot be found
http://articles.cnn.com/2009-07-06/...health-care-system-mayo-clinic?_s=PM:POLITICS
Holmes is Canadian, but the "they" she refers to are doctors at the Mayo Clinic in the United States, where she turned after specialists in her own government-run health care system would not see her fast enough.
"My family doctor at that time tried to get me in to see an endocrinologist and a neurologist," Holmes recalled. "It was going to be four months for one specialist and six months for the other."
http://www.dickmorris.com/blog/a-health-care-horror-story-from-canada/
It does not seem to have occurred to defenders of socialized medicine that the system itself is causing the doctor shortage. Cuts in medical fees, overcrowding of facilities, shortages of equipment and space, and bureaucratic oversight have all combined to drive men and women out of family medical practice. Now, with a critical shortage looming, those who can afford to pay for adequate care are opting out of the public system and, literally, taking their lives into their own hands.
canadians can have canada's health care system
i dont want it, what i have is better
Scott T
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It does. My sister, who died of complications from kidney disease in March, had a transplant 5 years ago and that (a rare form that caused her body to kill the organ, as well as the replacement), as well as any treatment she had afterwords due to the second organ's failure, was covered by the 'socialist' healthcare plan people like you like to rail against.
The only expenses incured by the family were travel (300 miles three times a week) for dialysis, The home dialysis machine rental, and lodging for her mother near the hospital at the end. The final three were covered by the Kinsmen Telemiracle Foundation.
How much would that have cost an American over 5 years +, hmmm?
LuckyKBoxer
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now my next question, do they provide all the treatments that are provided in the US, or do they have a limit on the types of treatments they provide...
before you answer I have done some research on it... so I will rail on it, so whats the answer there?
depends on how good the persons insurance is for how much it costs, besides the joy of not living in Canada is worth tens of thousands to me, so once again all i can say is it all depends.
Why international comparisons between healthcare systems may not be an accurate portrayal of reality, from the lady herself, Ann Coulter...
http://www.sj-r.com/opinions/x16996...ortality-talk-another-liberal-health-care-lie
from her column on Infant mortality rates:
But the international comparisons in “infant mortality” rates aren’t comparing the same thing, anyway. We also count every baby who shows any sign of life, irrespective of size or weight at birth.
By contrast, in much of Europe, babies born before 26 weeks’ gestation are not considered “live births.” Switzerland only counts babies who are at least 30 centimeters long (11.8 inches) as being born alive. In Canada, Austria and Germany, only babies weighing at least a pound are considered live births.
And of course, in Milan it’s not considered living if the baby isn’t born within driving distance of the Côte d’Azur.
By excluding the little guys, these countries have simply redefined about one-third of what we call “infant deaths” in America as “miscarriages.”
Moreover, many industrialized nations, such as France, Hong Kong and Japan — the infant mortality champion — don’t count infant deaths that occur in the 24 hours after birth. Almost half of infant deaths in the U.S. occur in the first day.
Apart from the fact that we count — and try to save — all our babies, infant mortality is among the worst measures of a nation’s medical care because so much of it is tied to lifestyle choices, such as the choice to have children out of wedlock, as teenagers or while addicted to crack.
The main causes of infant mortality — aside from major birth defects — are prematurity and low birth-weight. And the main causes of low birth-weight are: smoking, illegitimacy and teenage births. Americans lead most of the developed world in all three categories. Oh, and thank you for that, Britney Spears.
Although we have a lot more low birth-weight and premature babies for both demographic and lifestyle reasons, at-risk newborns are more likely to survive in America than anywhere else in the world. Japan, Norway and the other countries with better infant mortality rates would see them go through the roof if they had to deal with the same pregnancies that American doctors do.
http://www.sj-r.com/opinions/x16996...ortality-talk-another-liberal-health-care-lie
from her column on Infant mortality rates:
But the international comparisons in “infant mortality” rates aren’t comparing the same thing, anyway. We also count every baby who shows any sign of life, irrespective of size or weight at birth.
By contrast, in much of Europe, babies born before 26 weeks’ gestation are not considered “live births.” Switzerland only counts babies who are at least 30 centimeters long (11.8 inches) as being born alive. In Canada, Austria and Germany, only babies weighing at least a pound are considered live births.
And of course, in Milan it’s not considered living if the baby isn’t born within driving distance of the Côte d’Azur.
By excluding the little guys, these countries have simply redefined about one-third of what we call “infant deaths” in America as “miscarriages.”
Moreover, many industrialized nations, such as France, Hong Kong and Japan — the infant mortality champion — don’t count infant deaths that occur in the 24 hours after birth. Almost half of infant deaths in the U.S. occur in the first day.
Apart from the fact that we count — and try to save — all our babies, infant mortality is among the worst measures of a nation’s medical care because so much of it is tied to lifestyle choices, such as the choice to have children out of wedlock, as teenagers or while addicted to crack.
The main causes of infant mortality — aside from major birth defects — are prematurity and low birth-weight. And the main causes of low birth-weight are: smoking, illegitimacy and teenage births. Americans lead most of the developed world in all three categories. Oh, and thank you for that, Britney Spears.
Although we have a lot more low birth-weight and premature babies for both demographic and lifestyle reasons, at-risk newborns are more likely to survive in America than anywhere else in the world. Japan, Norway and the other countries with better infant mortality rates would see them go through the roof if they had to deal with the same pregnancies that American doctors do.
Was your sister over 50 years old, that is around the time that the socialized systems start giving up on helping people.
And here is a non-Ann coulter source for looking at the American healthcare system vs. our international friends...There is really a biased way of measuring the differences in medical systems and it is slanted toward the socialist models...
http://www.nationalcenter.org/NPA547ComparativeHealth.html
from the article:
http://www.nationalcenter.org/NPA547ComparativeHealth.html
from the article:
[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][SIZE=-1]Life expectancy and infant mortality are two measures that are widely cited, yet seldom questioned. This is unfortunate, because life expectancy and infant mortality tell us little about the efficacy of a health care system.[/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][SIZE=-1]Life expectancy and infant mortality are powerful tools for those who support some form of socialized medicine. On those measures the United States fares worse than all other industrialized nations. Most other industrialized nations have some form of government-run, universal health insurance. Thus, the reasoning goes, America's inferior performance on life expectancy and infant [/SIZE][/FONT]
[SIZE=-1][FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]mortality is due to its heavy reliance on a system of private sector care.[/FONT][/SIZE]
[SIZE=-1][FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]mortality is due to its heavy reliance on a system of private sector care.[/FONT][/SIZE]
for example:
[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][SIZE=-1]Some statistics may assume interaction with the health care system, but the phenomena they measure are not ones on which the health care system can have any meaningful impact. Take, for example, the rate of cancer incidence. While this statistic assumes interaction with the health care system (an incidence of cancer cannot be known without the diagnosis of a health care professional), there is little a health care system can do about the rate of cancer. Rather, cancer incidence is affected by factors such as genetics, diet, lifestyle, etc., over which the health care system has no control. Thus, to be an adequate measure of the effectiveness of a health care system, a statistic must measure a phenomenon that health care professionals can actually affected.[/SIZE][/FONT]
and:
More robust statistical analysis confirms that health care spending is not related to life expectancy. Studies of multiple countries using regression analysis found no significant relationship between life expectancy and the number of physicians and hospital beds per 100,000 population or health care expenditures as a percentage of GDP. Rather, life expectancy was associated with factors such as sanitation, clean water, income, and literacy rate.8
on infant mortality rates:
[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][SIZE=-1]But infant mortality tells us a lot less about a health care system than one might think. The main problem is inconsistent measurement across nations. The United Nations Statistics Division, which collects data on infant mortality, stipulates that an infant, once it is removed from its mother and then "breathes or shows any other evidence of life such as beating of the heart, pulsation of the umbilical cord, or definite movement of voluntary muscles... is considered live-born regardless of gestational age."16 While the U.S. follows that definition, many other nations do not. Demographer Nicholas Eberstadt notes that in Switzerland "an infant must be at least 30 centimeters long at birth to be counted as living."17 This excludes many of the most vulnerable infants from Switzerland's infant mortality measure.[/SIZE][/FONT]
on infant mortality rates:
[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][SIZE=-1]But infant mortality tells us a lot less about a health care system than one might think. The main problem is inconsistent measurement across nations. The United Nations Statistics Division, which collects data on infant mortality, stipulates that an infant, once it is removed from its mother and then "breathes or shows any other evidence of life such as beating of the heart, pulsation of the umbilical cord, or definite movement of voluntary muscles... is considered live-born regardless of gestational age."16 While the U.S. follows that definition, many other nations do not. Demographer Nicholas Eberstadt notes that in Switzerland "an infant must be at least 30 centimeters long at birth to be counted as living."17 This excludes many of the most vulnerable infants from Switzerland's infant mortality measure.[/SIZE][/FONT]
Scott T
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Once again you're displaying your ignorance. They don't give up on people at 50. Don't know where you get your information, but it is ****ed up.
She was 34.
Sigh
..
Actually its the Provinces that control Health Care, including education and training of doctors in Canada.
Our system is not perfect, no one here ever claimed that it was. Ten provinces, three territories, 34 million people and $200 billion spent, of course there are going to be problems. You can cherry pick all day of examples of problems in every system in the world. So what?
My parents went through cancer and heart issues a few years ago, they never waited for or paid for a doctor, surgery, drugs, home care, anything.
My sister was visiting family in Scotland a couple of years ago, my nephew had some issues, popped over to the local hospital, got treated, got drugs and sent on their way. No money spent. No problem.
The health care system Obama is selling you guys is a piece of crap, it is nothing even close to what we have.
Keep your American health system, its all yours, enjoy. There are reason no one emulates it.
Bill, instead of quoting Ann, how about you talk to some Canadian Conservatives instead? Oh yeah thats right, I am one! Going to the Conservative Convention in Ottawa this weekend too. Trust me, our Conservative government will never get rid of our health care system, find ways to improve it? Yeah. Get rid of it? Never.
Actually its the Provinces that control Health Care, including education and training of doctors in Canada.
Our system is not perfect, no one here ever claimed that it was. Ten provinces, three territories, 34 million people and $200 billion spent, of course there are going to be problems. You can cherry pick all day of examples of problems in every system in the world. So what?
My parents went through cancer and heart issues a few years ago, they never waited for or paid for a doctor, surgery, drugs, home care, anything.
My sister was visiting family in Scotland a couple of years ago, my nephew had some issues, popped over to the local hospital, got treated, got drugs and sent on their way. No money spent. No problem.
The health care system Obama is selling you guys is a piece of crap, it is nothing even close to what we have.
Keep your American health system, its all yours, enjoy. There are reason no one emulates it.
Bill, instead of quoting Ann, how about you talk to some Canadian Conservatives instead? Oh yeah thats right, I am one! Going to the Conservative Convention in Ottawa this weekend too. Trust me, our Conservative government will never get rid of our health care system, find ways to improve it? Yeah. Get rid of it? Never.
Scott T
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Thanks. Her passing was expected around Christmas. While it didn't prevent me from feeling gut-punched when it happened, it helped me get over it a little quicker.I'm so sorry to hear that
The extremely young and the extremely old suffer the most under socialized healthcare systems. We have the presidents own healthcare expert talking about how to ration treatment to only the most productive citizens.
Scott T
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God damn! You actually believe that, don't you???
You better lay off the FoxNews, Bub. It's rotting your brain!
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