The way to ensure what I'm doing

[Eshwar]

I have been recently watching some videos where GM Ed Parker was interviewed.
He repeated more than twice the sentence "...as a street fighter in Honolulú..." so I began to feel quite small and uncomfortable with my training. GM was talking about what's useful and I thought that as I have never been a street fighter, nor I have never applied anything of Kenpo outside the dojo, ¿How do I know that I'm really doing things right?
Sparring, or competition, or even full contact events (like UFC) may be more or less close to streefight, but man, never the same. The environment, totally uncontrolled in a streetfight can only be reproduced there, outside, where there are no rules.

In addition, there's another point. Imagine that one gets to the conclusion: "Ok, I've to look for street fighting so I'll see If my training is serious". That's insane, because the result of the decision means going above the law, and to the hospital (for sure, even "winning the battle")...If one survives.

I would like to know your opinion.

Thanks in advance,
Regards.

 

[Bill Mattocks]

With no disrespect to the person quoted intended, it has been my general observation that people who feel the need to inform others of the street fights they have been in, generally have not been in too many of them, if any.

The few people I know who have been in real 'street' fights haven't been in too many of them in their lives, and yes, their skills served them well. One person I know of (brother of a dojo-mate) who (I am told) liked to test himself by going into bars and starting fights was shot in the head and killed by someone who did not want to fist-fight him. Sound like a good idea?

I am also aware that many of the original masters of Okinawan karate, and perhaps others, intentionally sought out street fights to test the styles they were developing, to see what was effective and what did not work in reality. Rather like MMA but under less controlled circumstances.

Frankly, I have no desire to test anything I've learned under actual circumstances. I have aversions to both injury and arrest, nor do I have the strong desire to injure anyone else. I rest assured that what I have learned is sufficient to protect myself if need be. If it is not, then it is not; but it is certainly better than no training at all.

 

[Manny]

Frankly, I have no desire to test anything I've learned under actual circumstances. I have aversions to both injury and arrest, nor do I have the strong desire to injure anyone else. I rest assured that what I have learned is sufficient to protect myself if need be. If it is not, then it is not; but it is certainly better than no training at all.

I agree with you. Certanly I train to overcome a bad situation on the street and to have some kind of control if need to fight on the street and not to be seriusly hurt or killed, but going out looking for troubles just to test myself in a real confrontation, bare hands or with weapons is something very irresponsible.

Even with the years I have in MA I never consider myself bulletproof, MA gives me balance, good attitude and certanly some kind of peace of mind.

I think that any Martial Artist that clamis to be a street fighter is not entirely true.

If one wants to test his/her abilities he/she can go inside a rin or cage and do his/hers thing against another people and se how efective he or she is, for example UFC or MMA or Thai Box or whatever.

So, when people or saseis start talking how they succeded in street fights (plural) I just take a seat and laugh inside of me, a street fight is something very serius and it's the ultimate thing to do, the firsth thing to do is preservate our integrity physaclly and mentally, it's better to leave to be in a hospital with broken bones.

Manny

 

[Zoran]

Ed Parker grew up in Hawaii when it was still a territory. I pretty rough place to grow up as I understand it. Hence why earlier kenpo was so direct and brutal.

Some may also have experience depending on where they live or grew up, others may have experience from their profession and other still may have never been in a fight beyond the controlled environment of sparring or competition.

¿How do I know that I'm really doing things right?

You don't. You are learning to swim in 3 feet of water. No one knows how you will react when you can't touch the bottom of the pool anymore. But a word of advise, focus on the intensity and aggressiveness of your self defense at least as much as you focus on the mechanics of it. I can't give you anymore advise as I do not know how you are being trained by your instructor. Besides, looking at your profile it says you just got started, so just go and learn for now and don't worry about it.

 

[graychuan]

If there is a lot of sparring done in the dojo then your awareness and reflexes are used to responding on a regular basis to that type of input. Its like when you go on a road trip ...your brain gets visual input at 70-80 mph(or more) while on the interstate. But when you get back to the city or state roads, the 35-40 mph range, it seems like everyone is going too slow. I’ve noticed this same effect in martial arts.
There is always the chance that your opponent on the street is trained as well but not as likely. When you engage them they are likely to move at the ’40 mph’ range but you are capable of responding to the ’80 mph’ rang because of your sparring. This can give you an edge but still I agree with the earlier posts as far as streetfighting for the sake of testing yourself. Not everyone wants to streetfight but that doesnt mean that no one has prepared for it. And like Bill said earlier..guns change everything.
Now in MMA, of course, its likely that the opponent DOES have training. Also the main difference in MMA vs the DOJO vs the STREET is the level of conditioning. So in my opinion, in this particular respect, the cage is not exactly the best test for street fighting skill. But it sure isn’t the worst either. :O)

 

[Eshwar]

I really appreciate and respect your opinions. Mainly when you have spent some years training in Kenpo systems. I'm a Taekwondo black belt, but I'm starting at Kenpo. They are very different. I never used my arms so often like in Kenpo. Taekwondo is quite focused (well, at least the sport-side of it) on legs. Besides, I was in an exhib team, so everything was supposed to be "incredible" at public eyes.

The thing is that I respect a lot the roots of the art. So, I have been searching info about GM Ed Parker, as a key man in Kenpo. At the question "What do you think about Pure Karate in comparison with what you're doing?" He said "When pure knuckles meet pure flesh, that's pure karate". And "You have a good technique? Ok, let's see it in the street". Too hard for me :jediduel:

Thanks again.

 

[Chris Parker]

Hi,

A quick look over the "The "martial" in martial arts" thread may start to give you some ideas as well.

 

[Hand Sword]

Unfortunately (or fortunately, depending on your point of view),
If the question is being asked, that means you are "streeting it" on a regular basis. With that fact there is no way to truly "Know" (just like anything else, you gotta do it to really know it). Understand that training in the arts is fighting training. Practice with the self defense focussed mind set (a lot don't, it's just a hobby or a work out), tune up all your ranges of fighting (striking, kicking, grappling, etc..) regularly, and make sure you are conditioned well (that's probably the best key, if you're gassed, technique is not going to help much). Then know that the average thug doesn't put in the work you do, doesn't have all of the tools or knowledge that you do, and keep the faith!

 

[Hand Sword]

Sorry,
Meant to say are not "streeting it"

 

[ratman]

As mentioned earlier, the chances of encountering a trained fighter on the street are pretty small. One of the biggest ways to avoid those types of encounters are your environment. If you go out to a bar on Friday night with a bunch of drunks your chances go way up, etc. Most people I deal with in law enforcement are usually in an environment they should not have been in.

As you said it would be foolish to go out looking for a fight. I feel the best way to train is scenario based. You need to replicate the environment as closely as possible. If you train for weapons disarms don't train with just a dummy gun, train with airsoft. Don't train with just a rubber knife, smear some red lipstick on the blade. Gear up and make the environment as close to real life as you can. Training also goes beyond the dojo. Get some buddys together and just train scenarios outside of class etc.

I just had my annual firearms qualifications at work and shot 100%. All that means is I can shoot a paper target that doesn't shoot back in a controlled environment. Doesn't mean crap when bullets start flying back at me. And with all of that said, if you live in a state that has concealed carry, by all means get your ccw permit and practice your second amendment rights. A good majority of street encounters nowadays involve bad guy with a weapon.

 

[Hand Sword]

Well put ratman!

 

[Manny]

I really appreciate and respect your opinions. Mainly when you have spent some years training in Kenpo systems. I'm a Taekwondo black belt, but I'm starting at Kenpo. They are very different. I never used my arms so often like in Kenpo. Taekwondo is quite focused (well, at least the sport-side of it) on legs. Besides, I was in an exhib team, so everything was supposed to be "incredible" at public eyes.

The thing is that I respect a lot the roots of the art. So, I have been searching info about GM Ed Parker, as a key man in Kenpo. At the question "What do you think about Pure Karate in comparison with what you're doing?" He said "When pure knuckles meet pure flesh, that's pure karate". And "You have a good technique? Ok, let's see it in the street". Too hard for me :jediduel:

Thanks again.

As you do, I am also a black belt in TKD, even I love su much TKD I realice Kenpo is amazing and as you do I am using more and more my hands the kenpo way, I think the kicking tecsh of TKD coup÷led with the hands of kenpo is a very explosive mix.

Manny

 

[Twin Fist]

back in the 40's and 50's, you could get into fights and nothave to worry about getting shot.

thats a product of todays wimpy generations, used to be, you could get into a fight, and have a beer together afterwards.

these days people will shoot your *** before they take an *** whippin.

 

[Danjo]

There are actually quite a few youtube videos that show fights between "street fighters" and martial artists. Very often the martial artist wins with only a moderate amount of skill being displayed. A little training can go a long way it seems provided that skill is grounded in self defense and not sport. Even then, the full contact sports like Boxing seem to serve people quite well when they take on un-trained fighters in those various youtube encounters.

 

[Thesemindz]

I think this is a question that almost all men, much less martial artists confront throughout their lives. I'm sure some women do as well, but I can not speak for them, so I will not.

It is natural, in such a violent and hierarchical world, to wonder where exactly one's place is. And as one begins to explore violence, and become more intimately knowledgeable about it, I think it is natural for that question to grow in personal significance.

For me, the answer is simply that I train with other people who are also training in combat. That has to give me an edge against someone who neither trains, nor trains against trained fighters.

Does that make me invincible? Of course not. Nor does it mean that someone else can't be a threat to me without the benefit of formal training. A hard life might make one emotionally strong, or a hard job physically strong. Just as a dangerous job might make someone dangerous. But all of that is also a form of training. It is simply a different one than I have chosen.

I suppose the most dangerous man would have a bad childhood, a physically demanding job in a dangerous environment, and formal combat training. I am not that man.

Do not concern yourself overmuch with whether or not it would work in a fight, or whether or not you would win. For now, concern yourself with going to class and doing your homework. The difference is all in how much you practice. Over time, you will grow, as will those around you. And as your understanding of violence evolves, so will your understanding of your place within it.

If you are truly training for self defense, then surely you don't wish to get in fights. If you are truly training to win tournaments, then surely you don't want to waste your time fighting untrained drunks in bars. If you are truly training for health, then surely you don't want to risk a trip to the hospital.

I can't see any good reason for getting in street fights to test your skills, although I understand the psychological allure.

If you are truly in love with being alive, surely you don't want to die.


-Rob

 

[Yondanchris]

With no disrespect to the person quoted intended, it has been my general observation that people who feel the need to inform others of the street fights they have been in, generally have not been in too many of them, if any.

The few people I know who have been in real 'street' fights haven't been in too many of them in their lives, and yes, their skills served them well. One person I know of (brother of a dojo-mate) who (I am told) liked to test himself by going into bars and starting fights was shot in the head and killed by someone who did not want to fist-fight him. Sound like a good idea?

I am also aware that many of the original masters of Okinawan karate, and perhaps others, intentionally sought out street fights to test the styles they were developing, to see what was effective and what did not work in reality. Rather like MMA but under less controlled circumstances.

Frankly, I have no desire to test anything I've learned under actual circumstances. I have aversions to both injury and arrest, nor do I have the strong desire to injure anyone else. I rest assured that what I have learned is sufficient to protect myself if need be. If it is not, then it is not; but it is certainly better than no training at all.

The idea of "street testing" your art died over 100 years ago, now their are too many variables and dangers (least of which is a pair of cuffs) I tell my students the first day of class that if I EVER hear of them "trying" their techniques on the street it is IMMEDIATE termination from the Dojo (unless it was proven self-defense). In my years I have only seen 1 person kicked out because of wanting to "street test" his stuff.

My humble and mostly ignorant .02 cents,

Chris

 

[BloodMoney]

Ive met plenty of guys that say you have to test your skills in the street to know for sure if your dojo work has paid off, but thats kind of like saying to a Marine its a waste of time practicing marksmanship at the range hes better off just getting into gunfights in Iraq all the time. One of those two honing techniques is slightly more lethal than the other

I have had a rough background and got into plenty of fights, but since learning martial arts have had very few encounters, or have talked my way out of them. Martial arts give you the confidence not to use them, or at least should.

That said does it hurt to pressure test yourself? Of course not, but you can pressure test yourself in the gym or dojo you dont have to go out on the street and fight. That said im somewhat skeptical of masters who say they have never been in a fight in there life, not the kind of person I want teaching me self defense to be honest.

 

[Airdale]

I went to a tough high school and spent 8 years in the Navy, serving in some very tough environments. I've seen 6 toe-to-toe brawls, I've been involved in 2 fights myself. My observations-

Untrained fighter vs. untrained fighter- the larger or more aggressive person wins.

Trained fighter vs. untrained fighter- the trained fighter wins.

Trained fighter vs. trained fighter- the one with more training wins.

Training regularly in the martial arts, with a good instructor, and under realistic conditions, is the key to dominating in a streetfight. The particular style you choose to train in is not as important as the instructor you choose.

 

[Danjo]

I went to a tough high school and spent 8 years in the Navy, serving in some very tough environments. I've seen 6 toe-to-toe brawls, I've been involved in 2 fights myself. My observations-

Untrained fighter vs. untrained fighter- the larger or more aggressive person wins.

Trained fighter vs. untrained fighter- the trained fighter wins.

Trained fighter vs. trained fighter- the one with more training wins.

Training regularly in the martial arts, with a good instructor, and under realistic conditions, is the key to dominating in a streetfight. The particular style you choose to train in is not as important as the instructor you choose.

Just make sure that what you choose covers various ranges if possible. Take a look at Toney versus Couture yesterday and you'll see what I mean. Toney was a well trained fighter, but boxing was just too limited to deal with an MMA guy.